It's pretty common not to replace a screen with one or even a couple of non-clustered dead pixels...

 

.

 

It's an old scam with LCDs - dead pixels mean nothing unless you have more than 14 of them, or if you can show that the dead pixel will somehow impede scientific use of your machine. In a way, that's why it is better to buy a used machine - simply because you can check things out. Hopefully the dead pixel isn't in some important location on the screen.

 

So, did you exchange it?

I would have.

Their tolerance of dead pixels is supposed to be much lower for laptops than stand-alone monitors. I'd ask again.

 

I remember reading somewhere that applecares repair policy for displays is 5 dead pixels clustered within an inch.

 

I was told 4 dead/stuck or grey pixels in an area is enough for a repair. What you need to do is get a case # and discuss with customer relations if you are not satisfied even if beyond the 14 days.

It occurred to me a few years ago (after 1 or so years), and they said they could not do anything. It was a bright red stuck pixel off centre in the middle!

What I reminded them is that I use my computer in many meetings with business people (which I do), going over graphics, etc. I'd hate to have to point out the stuck pixel on my Apple to ever person that sees my laptop. They replaced it after hearing that... and said it was "an acceptation this time".

You could also sit out in front of the Apple Store and show people, and warn them not to buy Apple because of their support policy / quality. But that may bring over the Mall Cops to have you removed like in the movie !

 

Ya I got it exchanged but I have not inspect the new one yet as I am at work right now. I hope nothing is wrong with it.

 

All manufacturers have a "Pixel Anomaly" policy of some sort. The story is, if the manufacturers demanded 100% perfect LCD's for their computers, the price of LCD's would be exorbitantly higher.

Here is Dell's Pixel policy.

Here is Apple's, but they are a little more vague about the amount of pixels. Apple doesn't have a policy per se, but here's a bit of advice.... "The squeaky wheel gets the greece" Ultimately, its Apple's call.

 

One more reason for buying EVERYTHING at BestBuy..... :lmao::lmao: Just take it back and get a new one.



On that note, to end this once and for all.

Is it legal for a retail computer store in Canada to sell a computer without the operating system discs or someway of reloading via a restore partition or cd creation routine?

Be it Mac or PC.

Anyone know for sure?

 

Yes it's legal... OEM licensing allows for this.

 

So I just bought a 13" MBP last night, went home loaded Safari and noticed a dead pixel on the screen so I brought it into the Apple store today for an exchange.

Is the pixel actually "dead" (no colour) or "stuck" (a colour)? "Stuck" pixels can generally be fixed.

I was kinda surprise by that comment because after spending $1,300 I believe I should receive a flawless computer!

A flawless SCREEN I could go along with -- a flawless COMPUTER?? You're smoking the crack.

No mass-manufactured product is flawless. None. Not your car, not your toaster, not your Apple. That sometimes the flaws in a given product are invisible or irrelevant to your use doesn't mean it is free of them.

Please note that I am NOT saying you should live with the dead pixel (if it's actually dead).

 

Believe it or not Future Shop has a dead bug in the screen replacement policy,

 

what does dead bug mean?

 

What is your return policy?

Check out Best Buys Return Policy. States "not happy for any reason"

 

Actually, most bargain-basement PCs *don't* come with full restore or OS discs. That's one of the reasons they're bargain-basement, and it's a right PITA when the inevitable occurs.

 

So i just received a 15" Unibody MBP as a gift.... and unfortunately it has 1 dead pixel in the top left corner ....sigh...

I don't have the receipt but the serial # shows it was bought June 6th. I wonder if the apple store will give me grief if i try to have it replaced. Also , seeing as it was purchased a couple of days before the new macbook pros were announced i wonder if i can pay a restocking fee and get a new model...

 

1 dead pixel isn't that bad , every store and every brand has a policy against taking back dead pixel laptops , this played out in the 80's or 90's when LCD's came out in laptops and people started suing , some law was passed to allow a manufacturer to have up to 10 or so pixels.

 

No such law was passed, or would have been, or would be passed.

 

Dead pixels don't bother me as much as stuck pixels... having a pixel always red or green just blaring itself in my line of sight.... man that drives me crazy.

LCDs have been around long enough that the manufacturers should have perfected the way they make them, or come up with a way to repair faulty pixels right there on the assembly line. The fact that we still have to put up with this BS is inexcusable.

 

Ontario also has legislation that will let you make returns unfettered for 10 days, so if you are inside that 10 day period, I don't think that Apple's little "oh, that will deduct from your 14 day period" bunk would stand. If they are going to hassle you, just dump the machine, get your cash - they can't restrict you if you are in Ontario - then go to a decent place to buy an Apple.

 

Your Consumer Protection Rights - Government of Ontario (Canada)

That 10 day period applies to purchases made in your home, of services, contracts or goods for more than $50.

No such protection applies to items bought in stores--at all. Many, many items you buy--most items you buy--are final sale unless the store has a different policy. In the case of Apple, as anywhere else, you can buy according to their policies, or shop elsewhere.

You might want to look this stuff up before posting.

 

Imagine getting a music CD and a few of the notes are missing.

 

Shine on you Crazy Diamond would be noticeably less epic. XX)

 

^^^
No, my point is that the customer bought a laptop and does not fulfill that which is contracted, that the machine is brand new and functional. The ISO has nothing at all to do with it. Apple has a return policy, and the customer is dissatisfied not only at the material defects, but that the remedy is to "spin the wheel" on another machine that may not make the grade. And unless the store was specific in stating that screens can have so many defects, or the unit is sold as-is, this is nothing more than misrepresentation and fraud.

The law doesn't care how any pixels an LCD has, and whether or not they light up or not - what the law concerns itself with is that the contract (in this case, a retail purchase) is fulfilled. This is concealed damage, and if it was brought to court as a case, the judge would rule based on resetting to the status prior to the contract, that is, the store would hand back the cash for the product. I have never been in a retail store where there is a sign stating a policy on "dead pixels", nor have I ever seen a disclaimer in an advertisement stating a policy, nor have I ever talked to a salesperson who stated that such a policy exists.

The point on whether or not dead pixels can cause harm or not, or whether there is a specification registered to the ISO, makes no difference. It is all about the terms of the contracting parties, and the customer has the expectation that they will receive a fully functional machine free of defects, while the store has the expectation that the customer will pay in full. In this case, the customer did not receive the goods in good order, are dissatisfied with the defective product, and the store did nothing but threaten the customer about some policy that had never been disclosed.

Harm is another issue all together. If this was applied to say, a car, a customer could sign a contract with the dealership, which locks the customer into the deal, then the dealer could go carve up the dashboard with a knife, and make the claim that the car is entirely fine, since it runs, and that the carved up dashboard offers no harm to the customer. However, the law does not look at it that way. If the car was purchased new, the customer has the expectation to receive a car in good order, free of such defects, and that if the car does not make the grade, then the car company has to make the corrections in order to compensate for such defects. Now, if the car was used, and sold as-is, and the dashboard was carved up prior to sale and that damage disclosed to the buyer (who agrees to purchase anyways), then the situation is different.

The other fact is that the vast majority of LCD screens are entirely fully functional, and only after 7 years of on-the-road use (and being left in the car to roast in the summer or freeze in the winter), the screen is still fully functional with the exception of one stuck pixel at the top tip of the Apple stem, which stays green. I think few people have problems with dead pixels, and the assembly processes are vastly improved since the ISO cooked up a standard.

I think the customer, paying large money for a brand new sealed in box system, entirely has the right to not only expect a fully functional machine, but to recieve a fully functional machine - and if the machine is not fully functional, then it is up to the store to either exchange the unit for a functional machine, or to replace the LCD with a fully functional unit, or to dish out a refund.

Counting pixels is bunk, because they replace defective hard drives all the time, even though it may be a small, 1KB error in Track 0 - which on a 1TB drive is negligible. For a dead pixel to be apparent, it will be a clump of three or four dead pixels, which is a real defect by any measure.

For the sake of swapping a machine and keeping a customer happy - that store is surely loosing major sales because it is all about telling friends not to go there because of shoddy service or because they sell defective products. It's the same mentality that clobbered GM, with endless runs of defective cars that no one wants. This is such an unusual situation for Apple, since they pride themselves on their 14 day trial - and are miles above the shoddy service shoveled out by Dell, though Dell will entirely replace a defective LCD, especially if the dead pixel is in the meat of the screen, and not a solitary pixel out of the borderlands which would not affect the use of the machine.

 

^^^
No, my point is that the customer bought a laptop and does not fulfill that which is contracted, that the machine is brand new and functional. The ISO has nothing at all to do with it. Apple has a return policy, and the customer is dissatisfied not only at the material defects, but that the remedy is to "spin the wheel" on another machine that may not make the grade. And unless the store was specific in stating that screens can have so many defects, or the unit is sold as-is, this is nothing more than misrepresentation and fraud.

Do a bit of research before posting random gibberish and spouting off your how your going to take big bad apple to court because of a bad pixel or two. If you don't like it, I'm sure you'll enjoy a Dell with Windows Vista. :lmao:

About LCD display pixel anomalies

There are typically millions of these subpixels on an LCD display. For example, the LCD panel used in the Apple Cinema HD display is made up of 2.3 million pixels and 6.9 million red, green, and blue subpixels. Occasionally, a transistor does not work perfectly, which may result in the affected subpixel being turned on (bright) or turned off (dark). With the millions of subpixels on a display, it is quite possible to have a low number of faulty transistors on an LCD. Therefore, a certain number of subpixel anomalies is considered acceptable. Rejecting all but perfect LCD panels would significantly increase the retail price for products using LCD displays. These factors apply to all manufacturers using LCD technology--not just Apple products.

I guess its cool if you want to pay $12,000 for LCD's.

 

Really though, why would a "zero tolerance" policy on visible dead pixels cause anything near that price jump? I mean the whole reason that people complain about them is that the vast majority of LCDs are perfect to the naked eye, so they feel hard done by if theirs has a dead pixel. If almost every LCD had a cluster of dead pixels, that would be the norm and no one would really get upset by it. Personally, I haven't ever seen one in over 10 years. With today's manufacturing capabilities, even if manufacturers were forced by law to take back and rework/scrap any device with visible dead pixels, how many would that really be, in proportion? They probably get more returns for excessive noise, cracked housing and other defects, it seems like a holdover from the days when quality was much worse and these things cost thousands of dollars each.

 

Very good point. Exactly why I think their excuse is BS when a customer has a complaint about a stuck pixel or two.

 

Why can't they just swap a screen out at the store if there is a problem? I had an iPhone screen go on me, and they had it replaced in minutes.

 

^^^
A zero dead pixel policy would not lead to a dramatic increase in prices - as Samsung has shown by having a zero bad pixel policy, and their LCDs are entirely competitively priced in the market.

Most LCDs have zero deal pixels, and I think a poll of EhMacers would demonstrate this. I have 3 LCD displays (2 iBooks and my Benq monitor) - and I only have one stuck pixel on a 8 year old iBook that usually stays in the car summer and winter, and that pixel is at the top tip of the Apple stem, so no one notices it unless there is a Preview in Full Screen mode. Of my friends, I know no one that has a dead pixel on any of their Macs; and even at school, in the open labs that really get pounded, there was only one machine out of perhaps 90 or so that had a dead pixel - and that's where someone jammed their pen.

In this case, it is a brand new machine, with a dead pixel in the meat of the screen, with a 14 day policy in place - so the "oh, we can't swap your defective machine because of some policy that we don't tell people about and don't bother to put it on a sign, but if you want to try another machine, you are taking a gamble because it probably has more dead pixels and we won't swap that" just doesn't wash.

Not only is the store acting in a fraudulent and deceptive manner, they are building a reputation as a place not to go because of shoddy service and a place where there is a distinct absence of after sales service.

 

Not only is the store acting in a fraudulent and deceptive manner, they are building a reputation as a place not to go because of shoddy service and a place where there is a distinct absence of after sales service.

"Fraud" is a very serious word. I hope you're not implying that the multitude of warranties and repair agreements should all be read out by the sales staff to everyone customer before any purchase is made, after all, there would then be no reason why dead pixel policy should be the only "deception." Could it be considered deceptive to not mention that hard drives fail, and you should back up your data? Or perhaps that the CPU can fry, and you should not stake your business 24/7 functionality? Should customers be aware that damage caused by lightning strikes invalidate warranty coverage on the affected parts?

Ostensibly, yes, but a store is not acting fraudulently or deceptively by not mentioning every section and bullet point of every agreement. It could be considered fraudulent if a store implied or guaranteed that a product would work perfectly and without fail, knowing that the warranty and repair programs exist because the opposite is true, but I've yet to encounter anyone this out-of-touch.

 

Fraud doesn't apply here, not even the slightest bit , ISO does apply , right down to the last word. You are trying to argue a manufacturing defect but the defect is not considered one by any standard , hence there is no argument . Buying is your choice , they write on the box what standard it adheres to and it is up to you to inform yourself.

A return policy is a contract , a contract can have a clause. The clause will state the store does not go above and beyond ISO standards.

Samsung also makes the LCD , that is why they can have a zero policy , it costs them the same and the dead pixel ones go to other lesser known brands and the perfect ones they keep , and you will pay more for a samsung.

 

Buying is your choice , they write on the box what standard it adheres to and it is up to you to inform yourself.

I don't know what computer box you have looked at - I have never seen a box that states that the machine contained inside may have a defective LCD riddled with dead pixels that is not covered under warranty because the ISO says that defects are fine.

As for informing - the customer became informed when they tried out their new computer and found concealed damage, and was further informed when they were railroaded when they requested replacement under the trial period and / or under warranty.

A return policy is a contract , a contract can have a clause.

A return policy IS a part of the contract. If the bill of sale stated that the machine is sold "as-is", then it would be up to the customer to repair the machine at their own cost. But in this case, the machine is sold as new, and under warranty, which binds the store to replacing or repairing the damaged goods because new implies that the machine will be in good order and fully functional.

The clause will state the store does not go above and beyond ISO standards.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Canada is not bound by ISO standards, nor are stores or manufacturers. If a company wants to sell product to the EU, then they need to comply with ISO standards. This is not the case at all, no one is selling a laptop to the EU. It simply is a clear case of a product that had concealed damage, and the store refuses to honour not only their warranty because of some lame, half baked excuse, but the advertised trial period in which the consumer is allowed to check out the goods to see if they like it or not.

Samsung also makes the LCD , that is why they can have a zero policy , it costs them the same and the dead pixel ones go to other lesser known brands and the perfect ones they keep , and you will pay more for a samsung.

As I pointed out, this is not the case, and Samsung LCD monitors are entirely competitively priced in the marketplace. If a company buys "rejects" and puts those products into their own product - there are laws that clearly state that the product will have affixed a label that clearly states that the product is a second, and may contained reconditioned components.

I have also stated that for the vast majority of Mac users, dead pixels are not a problem because Apple generally uses high quality displays made by reputable manufacturers using modern production and inspection means. Thus, the customer can rightfully make a case that their machine is defective, since the vast majority of Apple laptops do not come with dead pixels, and that Apple entirely replaces machines that do have defective displays under the conditions of their warranty - just like Apple replaces other parts, like power supplies, inverter boards, logic boards, hard drives, batteries, etc. that may be defective.

 

A retail purchase is not a contract. I'm out, but feel free to sway me with some actual documentation.