[HenriHelvetica]

Man, it's not been a pretty 2014 for ladies in tech so far. Not sure if it's because I'm following tons of female programmers, but I'm seeing acrimony in my twitter timeline. And I get it. There have been some very notable and high profile incidents all this year. More and more are making the news when there's even the slightest whiff of sexism. And this recent Tinder debacle is just the latest in a series of misconducts

But it's a pretty interesting topic right now.

There must be some ladies on the boards here, no?? Any of you work in tech right now? care to share some sentiments??

 

[SINC]

That's a real shame. Even before I retired in 2001 we had as many women managers as men and there was no real difference in operations run by women. In fact many of them outshone the guys by a substantial margin running community newspapers.

 

[Sonal]

I used to be in tech.

Though I think the one time I asked the men on THIS board to use a different word, there was a big pile on from a bunch of men about how it's really okay (mansplain much?) and exactly 3 men (thank you; I am still incredibly grateful for that) who actually said, wait, no, it's not okay, and a larger crowd who was just silent.

This is a big part of the reason why I'm not here much anymore. (I'm here now because moonsocket and I have an annual tradition of exchanging birthday PMs.)

I'm sure, having said this, there will be a further pile on from the same people, either about how I overreacted or how it was really okay or how I should have stuck around anyway because it wasn't so bad or some other such diminishing words and I'm given that I'm not really in the mood to go through that shitshow again don't expect me to reply. (And I'm sure there will be something said about that.) And the reason I'm sure is because this happens to women everywhere--and HenriHelvetica, if you've been following female programmers (on Twitter, I presume) and reading up on these issues, you likely know that quite well.

So yes, these issues are completely unsurprising. And I suspect you aren't going to hear from many women about this here because a) there aren't many here, and b) the almost inevitable experience of having your thoughts and feelings and experiences invalidated by a bunch of guys 'who are just trying to explain' is both almost predictably common and supremely unfun. But hey, if any woman decides to go for it, more power to you, and good luck!

 

[Rps]

First, I will admit that I am a dinosaur compared to many who visit here. My first full time job was working for the bank. An organisation , at that time, "exec'd" by men but run by women. I then went into the automotive industry. In the office there were men's jobs and women's jobs. Can't speak for the banks today, I see many branches with women managers .... But I don't think I have seen a woman CEO of a bank. We have finally seen the light in the automotive industry and we have a number of women CEOs. Sounds like programming is more like banking than automotive. Too bad, since half of all the intellect in the world is female.

 

[Dr.G.]

Two of the leading researchers in the Faculty of Education here at Memorial University, received a $5 million dollar STEM grant to try and get more women interesting and actively participating in Science/Technology/Engineering/Math. Both of these researchers are women. The off-shore oil industry is funding many such projects to get men and women interested in STEM.

 

[screature]

I used to be in tech.

Though I think the one time I asked the men on THIS board to use a different word, there was a big pile on from a bunch of men about how it's really okay (mansplain much?) and exactly 3 men (thank you; I am still incredibly grateful for that) who actually said, wait, no, it's not okay, and a larger crowd who was just silent.

This is a big part of the reason why I'm not here much anymore. (I'm here now because moonsocket and I have an annual tradition of exchanging birthday PMs.)

I'm sure, having said this, there will be a further pile on from the same people, either about how I overreacted or how it was really okay or how I should have stuck around anyway because it wasn't so bad or some other such diminishing words and I'm given that I'm not really in the mood to go through that shitshow again don't expect me to reply. (And I'm sure there will be something said about that.) And the reason I'm sure is because this happens to women everywhere--and HenriHelvetica, if you've been following female programmers (on Twitter, I presume) and reading up on these issues, you likely know that quite well.

So yes, these issues are completely unsurprising. And I suspect you aren't going to hear from many women about this here because a) there aren't many here, and b) the almost inevitable experience of having your thoughts and feelings and experiences invalidated by a bunch of guys 'who are just trying to explain' is both almost predictably common and supremely unfun. But hey, if any woman decides to go for it, more power to you, and good luck!

Well I know you are not going to reply because you said you wouldn't but I am just unclear as to what word it is that you are talking about.

Aside from that, why make a post in a public forum that you have stated that you will not respond to those who wish to talk to you? I don't get that. Seems kind of passive aggressive.

Either say nothing at all or if you do have something to say talk to the people with whom you are engaging.

Have the courage of your convictions and don't do a "drive by" and then run and hide.

 

[HenriHelvetica]

I used to be in tech.

Though I think the one time I asked the men on THIS board to use a different word, there was a big pile on from a bunch of men about how it's really okay (mansplain much?) and exactly 3 men (thank you; I am still incredibly grateful for that) who actually said, wait, no, it's not okay, and a larger crowd who was just silent.

This is a big part of the reason why I'm not here much anymore. (I'm here now because moonsocket and I have an annual tradition of exchanging birthday PMs.)

I'm sure, having said this, there will be a further pile on from the same people, either about how I overreacted or how it was really okay or how I should have stuck around anyway because it wasn't so bad or some other such diminishing words and I'm given that I'm not really in the mood to go through that shitshow again don't expect me to reply. (And I'm sure there will be something said about that.) And the reason I'm sure is because this happens to women everywhere--and HenriHelvetica, if you've been following female programmers (on Twitter, I presume) and reading up on these issues, you likely know that quite well.

So yes, these issues are completely unsurprising. And I suspect you aren't going to hear from many women about this here because a) there aren't many here, and b) the almost inevitable experience of having your thoughts and feelings and experiences invalidated by a bunch of guys 'who are just trying to explain' is both almost predictably common and supremely unfun. But hey, if any woman decides to go for it, more power to you, and good luck!

I too would love to hear a few more deets as to why you left. Ppl leave for many diff reasons.

Not going to prod you to discuss your story if you don't want to, but I will say this: I'm a BIG BELIEVER in teachable moments. Meaning, if an issue comes up and nothing is said, it's possibly wasted opportunity to get someone to understand the matter @ hand.

FYI, I'm a black dev. I go to meetups and quite oft am the only one there. As such, I've always said that there many parallels between the female struggle and the one of PoC.

As such, I personally attend Ladies’ tech meetups to listen to discussions, learn and contribute as well. A recent, one about 1 month back was on how to retain ladies in STEM, and after the presentation, not a single person had ANY questions. I was actually pretty shocked, so I got up and started the convo.

Like why so little amount of girls were never interested in STEM in high school? I’ll never forget this moment when I sat down w/ these 2 female classmates and they were overjoyed that they didn’t have to take any more STEM credits - and they were far from being alone in that sentiment.

I do believe in role models, and what they can mean to a young mind. As such, I’m in the process of planning a series of lectures/talks to put the faces that are too seldom seen in front of an audience, to serve the young and all interested as a source of inspiration - to keep pushing along.

But with that, I hope to maintain the discourse regardless - as again, these are teachable moments.

 

[rgray]

FWIW, women make up more than 50% of overall university faculties these days. Actually have been for at least ten years (since just before I retired). Can't speak for other STEM areas.

 

[FeXL]

Like why so little amount of girls were never interested in STEM in high school? I’ll never forget this moment when I sat down w/ these 2 female classmates and they were overjoyed that they didn’t have to take any more STEM credits - and they were far from being alone in that sentiment.

Had to look up STEM definition. Never heard the term before.

That said, we have a daughter, high school age, who has wanted to be an engineer since junior high. She is taking as many science credits as she can (bio excluded), including pre-engineering classes. Very strong in all her courses, but especially so in math, physics, chem. I try to engage her as much as possible when it comes to mechanical repairs around the home & vehicles, get her head around how things work, how to troubleshoot, come up with a solution, apply it. When she starts a fresh course, I give her one of my university texts for supplemental info. She's currently reading a textbook on Chaos Theory for fun...

 

[Macfury]

The word "mansplaining" is a trigger for me, so it must never be used.

 

[HenriHelvetica]

Had to look up STEM definition. Never heard the term before.

That said, we have a daughter, high school age, who has wanted to be an engineer since junior high. She is taking as many science credits as she can (bio excluded), including pre-engineering classes. Very strong in all her courses, but especially so in math, physics, chem. I try to engage her as much as possible when it comes to mechanical repairs around the home & vehicles, get her head around how things work, how to troubleshoot, come up with a solution, apply it. When she starts a fresh course, I give her one of my university texts for supplemental info. She's currently reading a textbook on Chaos Theory for fun...

awesome.

But I'm really curious as to why this is the case. Why in an environment like HS which I consider pretty neutral ground, a girl going heavy in STEM classes is news. Or, what is it about STEM that drives girls away. Granted, in the professional ranks, the environment can be less than appealing, ruined by a few bad apples, but in HS i wonder what it is.

But maybe that isn't the case now, and that there's much more balance and interest across gender lines. IDK.