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I just helped a neighbour set up a Dell Inspiron 1720 that she bought for her husband for Xmas. I have to say - pretty darn nice machine for $899.00. Intel Core Duo, 2 Gb RAM, 17" screen, 250GB HDD. And it's not so bloated up with trialware like they used to be.

And working with Vista for a couple of hours wasn't so bad.

As long as the equivalent Mac is twice the price, Apple will always be a niche player. I guess that's not such a bad thing.
 

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I just helped a neighbour set up a Dell Inspiron 1720 that she bought for her husband for Xmas. I have to say - pretty darn nice machine for $899.00. Intel Core Duo, 2 Gb RAM, 17" screen, 250GB HDD. And it's not so bloated up with trialware like they used to be.

And working with Vista for a couple of hours wasn't so bad.

As long as the equivalent Mac is twice the price, Apple will always be a niche player. I guess that's not such a bad thing.
Does the Dell have a built-in video camera? BlueTooth? 802.11n WiFi? FireWire 800? Gigabit ethernet? Digital optical in/out? Dual-layer DVD burner? Backlit keyboard? DVI video output? Try adding all that to the Dell and then see how much it costs. Oh, and the Dell is 49% bigger than a 17" MacBook Pro and at least 12% heavier (that's based on the Dell "starting weight" before configuration).

As long as they keep playing the lowest price game, Dell will continue to see it's profits and stock value disappear. Trust me, Apple is no niche player in the notebook market. Apple is now #3 in the US PC market ahead of everyone except for Dell and HP. So I suppose IBM, Gateway and Toshiba are niche players too. They also happen to have a market cap that's about 3x that of Dell's. :ptptptptp
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Does the Dell have a built-in video camera? BlueTooth? 802.11n WiFi? FireWire 800? Gigabit ethernet? Digital optical in/out? Dual-layer DVD burner? Backlit keyboard? DVI video output? Try adding all that to the Dell and then see how much it costs. Oh, and the Dell is 49% bigger than a 17" MacBook Pro and at least 12% heavier (that's based on the Dell "starting weight" before configuration).

As long as they keep playing the lowest price game, Dell will continue to see it's profits and stock value disappear. Trust me, Apple is no niche player in the notebook market. Apple is now #3 in the US PC market ahead of everyone except for Dell and HP. So I suppose IBM, Gateway and Toshiba are niche players too. They also happen to have a market cap that's about 3x that of Dell's. :ptptptptp
Camera, Bluetooth, dual layer DVD RW, yes. Not sure about the rest. I'm not trying to start an fight. I'm just saying it's hard to make a value argument against a Dell or an HP or an Acer. Especially since 802.11n, DVI video out, optical out and FW800 are of dubious value to most laptop users. I know on my MBP, I'm not using any of those features.

Before she ordered, I tried to talk her into a MacBook but when she heard the price, she wouldn't even consider it. When the Dell arrived, I expected a piece of junk. I've owned Dells in the past and never liked them. But this machine was nicely equipped, felt solid, albeit heavy, and Vista wasn't so horrible in the short time I used it.
 

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Sometimes you get what you pay for.
 

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Sorry, but Vista is absolutely abysmal.

I'm forced to use it, and it's like Microsoft interface designers and engineers loaded every single UI concept into the barrels of a shotgun, aimed at a computer, pulled the trigger, and implemented whatever stuck.

Things are overly complicated. Simple things, like connecting to a wireless network take at least half dozen clicks (as opposed to two in the Mac). It had to setup a Xerox laser printer on a Windows machine yesterday. Did I do it through the Printer control panel? Nope! Had to configure the driver through Hardware Manager. Plug and play is still plug and pray.
 

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Sometimes you get what you pay for.
Exactly. The Dell for $899 is only a 1.5GHz processor. Apple doesn't sell a notebook (even their entry level MacBook Pro) with less than a 2.0GHz processor. The 17" MacBook Pro has a 2.4GHz processor. The Dell's 17" screen is only 1440x900 resolution, the MacBook Pro has a 1680 x 1050 resolution display. The Dell has an Intel 144MB shared memory integrated graphics chip, the MacBook Pro has an NVidia GeForce 8600M GT with 256MB dedicated VRAM. An 802.11n card costs extra. BlueTooth costs extra and is not included in the $899 price according to the Dell website. Also, no remote control, costs extra on the Dell, but included with the MacBook Pro.

My point was that you can't compare the $899 Dell to Apple's 17" offering. They're two different beasts, like Hyundai's and Mercedes. Apple is being far more successful by building innovative, full featured computers than trying to build the cheapest box.
 

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I never knew this topic would provoke some passion... yea... give me that spark.

There will always be people who are completely price driven. They only want to spend $900 on a laptop and not a penny more, that's respectable. People have a finite amount of money so they need to prioritize where that money goes. He posted his topic on the Everything Else Eh forum because not expecting to criticize or compare the Mac, but simply to say that his girlfriend's new Dell running Vista is not as bad as he expected. Okay he did call Apple a niche player but meh. My friend and her boyfriend just bought an iMac and Macbook respectively, they're happy. A lot of my PC using friends are happy with their machines, Windows XP and Vista are both good operating systems and I've experienced no problems setting up and using Vista at my old job despite hearing warning stories not to use Vista in corporate environments. So let's cut them some slack. If they want to buy a PC, give our unbiased opinions but respect their decisions whichever way they go.

And clearly lay down the line not to come to us if they have virus and spyware problems, network problems, etc. "But Donald you're so good with computers" "No!" -- unless they're offering monetary compensation.
 

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I can see the issue here every time I open a Future Shop or Best Buy flyer and see some 15" or 17" laptop advertised at some ridiculously low price. I then have to go through my mental checklist of features that my Macbook came with that the PC laptop doesn't offer or has to add. I love my Macbook, but for what I use it for, a less expensive PC would do the job. The ONLY reason that I continue to buy Apple computers is for the OS. The fact that they usually have more state of the art hardware is an added bonus. I would have liked maybe an optional screen size - for a Mac user, the jump from 13" to 15 or 17" screens comes at a steep price!
 

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I hate it when people compare a mac (book) to say a dell. You cannot, at all. People look a the computer's specs, and try and make a comparison but you can't based on that. Macs are far more efficient wit their resources than PCs. I have a 2ghz / 1 gb macbook that runs laps around my brothers 2.4 / 1.5 gb sony. With that said, a comparable portable for a pro would be a very loaded alienware, which are equally as expensive. I did substantial research before buying my macbook to see if pc laptops had made a turn around, but a macbook is the best deal on the market for what you're getting. To get the wireless N, the specs coupled with the weight and size there was no better product...also its a mac :)

I had an old eMac lasted me 7 years. I had a fully loaded, apparently the top of the line PC and it went bad in 2 years. Absolutely fried. I wasn't downloading, just surfing, excel, word...nothing that would cause it to die so early. PCs are just too vulnerable to everything on the internet. I think you save money with a mac, maybe not off the bat but in the long run you do forsure.
 

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I googled "windows envy" and it laughed at me...

The title is also kinda missleading; I know what your saying but Dell and windows are two differant things. You can run Linux on Dell hardware and many other OS's... 80) I think I'm tired and grumpy...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I hate it when people compare a mac (book) to say a dell. You cannot, at all. People look a the computer's specs, and try and make a comparison but you can't based on that. Macs are far more efficient wit their resources than PCs. I have a 2ghz / 1 gb macbook that runs laps around my brothers 2.4 / 1.5 gb sony. With that said, a comparable portable for a pro would be a very loaded alienware, which are equally as expensive. I did substantial research before buying my macbook to see if pc laptops had made a turn around, but a macbook is the best deal on the market for what you're getting. To get the wireless N, the specs coupled with the weight and size there was no better product...also its a mac :)

I had an old eMac lasted me 7 years. I had a fully loaded, apparently the top of the line PC and it went bad in 2 years. Absolutely fried. I wasn't downloading, just surfing, excel, word...nothing that would cause it to die so early. PCs are just too vulnerable to everything on the internet. I think you save money with a mac, maybe not off the bat but in the long run you do forsure.
I own *four* Macs. I haven't bought a PC in 5 years. So you are preaching to the choir. All I am saying is - I expected a $900 Dell to be a piece of crap and it simply is not. It's a fine machine. Might not last as long as my MBP but it's still great value and satisfies the needs of the vast majority of laptop buyers.
 

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I know this may sound like heresy on ehmac but I gotta say it. After browsing the laptops at the local BestBuy, the Macbook looks pretty lame. I've seen $500 laptops at costco that looked slicker. The white plastic has gotta go and the $200 premium for black colored plastic is absolutely ridiculous. I know it exclusively comes with iLife and OSX but to the average consumer not deeply invested in the Mac camp it would be easy to overlook. I also think they should be using 15inch displays or at least have the option. That said I still love the macbook pros.
Now the imac is a whole other cat. You can look at the PC options out there and many my be better configured and cheaper but the imac stands out from the pack with its stunning design. Hopefully Johnathan Ives has been hard a work transferring some of that imac wow over to the next generation macbooks. I really think apple needs to get a laptop down in that sub $1000 range too. HP, Dell and everyone else can do it. I'm sure a laptop with a 1.5ghz core 2 duo would run OSX like a champ for most needs.

Cheers
MacGuiver
 

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I just helped a neighbour set up a Dell Inspiron 1720 that she bought for her husband for Xmas. I have to say - pretty darn nice machine for $899.00. Intel Core Duo, 2 Gb RAM, 17" screen, 250GB HDD. And it's not so bloated up with trialware like they used to be.

And working with Vista for a couple of hours wasn't so bad.

As long as the equivalent Mac is twice the price, Apple will always be a niche player. I guess that's not such a bad thing.
HUH???

Can you point me to a page where Apple is selling a 17" C2D iMac for $1800??
 
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