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In Denmark wherever you go you will see huge wind turbines everywhere. They now supply I think 20 to 30 percent of Denmarks electric power needs.
DANISH WIND INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION - Did you know?
wind power covers almost 20% of the Danish power consumption
Wind co-ops take the power grid monopoly away from the giant corporations and put it into the hands of the people through co-op ownership.
Actually, no. The power grid is still owned by whoever built it. It is never 'owned' by the co-op. Power generation is taken away from other power generation companies.

It also creates a lot of employment
Short term construction employment. Long-term, jobs would just move from older power generation to newer power generation facilities.

In my opinion put up as many wind turbines as possible.
Where? 'Everywhere' really isn't a place. Who's land? What are the wind currents like in available areas?

Then expand public transportation with electric trolley buses, subway, and skytrain systems.
Who's paying for this infrastructure? Toronto can't even afford to expand it's existing public transit infrastructure. Now you want somebody to spend money on building a new power generation system, and build new transit infrastructure?

Also, expand our railway systems and make it so that they move both lots of people and lots of freight powered by electricity from the wind turbine farms.
Again, who is going to pay to develop this infrastructure? Perhaps you would be agreeable to a tax increase?
 

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Again, who is going to pay to develop this infrastructure? Perhaps you would be agreeable to a tax increase?
Absolutely!
I already pay extra for green electricity. (Bullfrog Power). Bring it on! More windmills = less BS!
 

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Imagine the news...

2005 - Global warming - the rising threat to our planet.
2010 - Construction starts for 10MW wind farm.
2020 - New 10MW wind farm hearlded as the ultimate weapon against Global Warming.
2040 - 25 years of drastically altered wind currents -- Global warming had nothing compared to this new threat.

There's just no winning folks as long as we're addicted to any form of energy and as long as there are so many of us on this planet.
 

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Imagine the news...

2005 - Global warming - the rising threat to our planet.
2010 - Construction starts for 10MW wind farm.
2020 - New 10MW wind farm hearlded as the ultimate weapon against Global Warming.
2040 - 25 years of drastically altered wind currents -- Global warming had nothing compared to this new threat.

There's just no winning folks as long as we're addicted to any form of energy and as long as there are so many of us on this planet.
This is a big fat red herring (a type of fallacy) and nothing more.
Fallacy: Red Herring
 

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Britain is planning to go all wind for home electricity.

Britain to shift to offshore wind farms by 2020
Goal is to cover all British homes, but industry is short of turbines
Image: Offshore wind turbines
Vestas Wind Systems

updated 5:27 p.m. ET, Mon., Dec. 10, 2007

LONDON - Britain unveiled plans Monday to generate enough electricity through offshore wind farms to power every home in the country by 2020, increasing production more than 60-fold and changing the look of its coastlines.

Britain's wind-swept coasts and shallow waters are ideal for offshore turbines, but wind generated power currently accounts for less than 2 percent of its energy generation.

Business secretary John Hutton said the government planned to reach the target through a fourfold increase in the amount of space off Britain's shores allocated for wind farms.
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The move would change Britain's coasts, Hutton acknowledged, but said the need for energy self-sufficiency left the country no choice. He said the plans would depend on environmental impact studies.

"But if we could manage to achieve this, by 2020 enough electricity could be generated off our shores to power the equivalent of all of the U.K.'s homes," Hutton said in a statement.

The British Wind Energy Association, a trade body that represents the country's wind and marine energy industries, welcomed plans for more offshore wind farm sites, but it said it would be difficult to raise Britain's wind power production from half a gigawatt currently to 33 gigawatts by 2020 — the equivalent of the energy now consumed by every British home.

Eight gigawatts' worth of wind generation projects are already planned, but the group said the limited supply of turbines meant the amount of wind energy produced by 2020 would likely be closer to 20 gigawatts.

"We'd really be struggling from a 'Where can we get the turbines?'" point of view, the association's economics director Gordon Edge said.
Bullfrog is no great burden at all and will only get cheaper. A number of my clients have signed on and it's pretty easy to get back to the old cost by changing some habits....clothes line for instance and low energy lights.

Now if Canada had been on the ball we could be building wind turbines in Ontario to meet worldwide demand by now instead of dealing with idjits like Harper.

There is this little item of the St. Lawrence Seaway that allows us low cost shipping of such large structures anywhere in the world.

I tell you, if this gov had to build the Seaway from scratch....they'd find an excuse to do nothing.
 

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I wonder how much of that is marketting and how much of that is fact. From the news and documentary shows that I've watched on wind power most people say they can't stand the sound and that you can hear the wind turbines for miles. It's so much of a problem that they can't find land sites for them. It may be a good idea to find water sites for them, but then salt water can't be good for them. Salt water would erode them faster.

Macdoc said:
Now if Canada had been on the ball we could be building wind turbines in Ontario to meet worldwide demand by now instead of dealing with idjits like Harper.
It might have something to do with the problem that nobody wants them around due to the noise.
 

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I wonder how much of that is marketting and how much of that is fact. From the news and documentary shows that I've watched on wind power most people say they can't stand the sound and that you can hear the wind turbines for miles. It's so much of a problem that they can't find land sites for them. It may be a good idea to find water sites for them, but then salt water can't be good for them. Salt water would erode them faster.



It might have something to do with the problem that nobody wants them around due to the noise.
The downtown (exhibition place) windmill is not noisy. Perhaps there are a bunch of chicken littles running around. Next time you are in Toronto, check out our windmills and judge for yourself. I think this is more from the "anything to keep the status quo" crowd or worse from the companies who have a vested interest in the status quo. (read oil companies). Certainly the noise from roads is worse than the windmills I've heard. By far...
 

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Ontario wind farms creating huge gusts of opposition

"You should come here today and hear the bugger squeal," the retired industrial engineer says of the EPCOR wind turbine located about 300 metres from his rural property just outside Goderich, Ont. "I can see about 11 of them from my house and they all make noise though we were told there would be no problems at all."
The first phase of EPCOR's Kingsbridge Wind Power Project consists of 22 turbines with a generating capacity of 39.6 megawatts. Marshall would like to see them all dismantled.
"But that's not going to happen. We're going to have to move out. My wife is complaining she hasn't had a good night's sleep since we came back from Florida at the end of March and it was running."
Consultant to study wind farm noise

And I seem to remember a W5 episode on the topic.

"When you get more than one turbine together, noise from the two combines and you get a rumble," Palmer added. "People describe it as an endless train."
I'm not saying we shouldn''t invest in them, but it's going to be hard to find spots for them.
 

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I wonder how much of that is marketting and how much of that is fact. From the news and documentary shows that I've watched on wind power most people say they can't stand the sound and that you can hear the wind turbines for miles.
Some friends of mine in Upstate New York live in an area where a wind farm is being pushed. I have been told many times over the past couple of years that living anywhere near them isn't easy. There is a constant low-pitch grinding sound, and an almost infrasound whump whump whump each time one of the blades passes by the support tower - and it's enough to drive you nuts. Don't get me wrong, I like windmills and the idea of wind farms but hearing such comments I've heard have tempered my admiration to a degree.
 

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Now if Canada had been on the ball we could be building wind turbines in Ontario to meet worldwide demand by now instead of dealing with idjits like Harper.
Harper, Harper, Harper! Christ! Your buddy Dalton has been in power for a lot longer than him, why aren't you on his back? Or do you like the coal plants he didn't shut down?
 

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There are many of them on the outskirts of Pincher Creek, Alberta set high on a foothill into the westerly winds which blow the majority of the time.

If you stop your vehicle and get out to take a picture, the whoosh, whoosh, whoosh sounds are nearly unbearable and I can't imagine living anywhere near them.

That being said, if they are placed away from populated areas, I still think they are a great and green idea.
But make no mistake, they are VERY noisy and much more annoying than highway traffic because it never varies. Whoosh, whoosh, whoosh for hours on end.
 

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Harper, Harper, Harper! Christ! Your buddy Dalton has been in power for a lot longer than him, why aren't you on his back? Or do you like the coal plants he didn't shut down?
You see, MacDoc doesn't hate the Liberals. He hates the Conservatives, so he HAS to blame Harper.

McGuinty? Ppffh. Like he could accomplish anything.
 

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Trying to deflect from your buddy Harper??? how trite - point the finger everywhere but at the root cause - failure to act by Harper and Alberta leadership....

McGuinty is not immune in the least but Ontario also gets a decent green report card and is not sitting on billions in surplus and the power to introduce nationwide legislation.

Ontario is already taking steps - lots more than many realize

Complaining the federal Conservatives aren't doing enough to combat climate change, the Ontario government said yesterday it will join an emissions cutting program launched by several U.S. states.

The program, which so far includes New York and eight other northeastern states, puts an absolute cap on emissions from electricity generating stations and would allow those that are below their targets to sell credits to those that are above.
and green tech

A new $650-million fund will secure the next generation of high-paying jobs for Ontarians by developing clean and green technologies and businesses right here in Ontario, says Premier Dalton McGuinty.

"There's a huge opportunity out there and Ontario is determined to seize it for our people and our economy," McGuinty said.

"With the world looking for innovative ways to conserve energy and fight global warming, some place is going to secure thousands of jobs by researching and developing new solutions, and we want that place to be Ontario."

Premier McGuinty unveiled the Next Generation Jobs Fund, which will make $650 million available to companies looking to invest in the development of clean cars, clean fuels, and clean technologies and products here in Ontario.
and anyone in Canada can take advantage of Bullfrog Power and many are
Bullfrog Power Home Page - 100% Green Electricity

Other steps

Government buildings at Queen's Park will receive their cooling from Enwave's deep lake cooling system, cutting energy demand for cooling by 90 per cent.

A new regulation allows net metering, which provides credit to customers who generate their own power from renewable sources for any excess electricity they put back into the grid.

690 new wind turbines are up and running or in the works, up from just 10 in 2003.
December 6, 2005

The government commits to reduce its own electricity use by at least 10 per cent by 2007.
March 10, 2006

The Ontario Power Authority initiates programs with the Builder Owners and Managers Association for 150 MW of electricity reduction, and with the City of Toronto and Toronto Hydro for an additional 90 MW each. (In March 2007, the program is launched and directs funds to eligible participants towards the capital cost of demand-reducing and energy- saving initiatives in their buildings).
March 21, 2006

A Renewable Standard Offer provides a guaranteed price for electricity produced by small-scale wind, biomass or small hydroelectric projects. Over 10 years, this could add up to 1,000 MW of renewable energy to Ontario's electricity supply — enough to power 250,000 homes. (As of July 2007, 78 Standard Offer Contracts have been executed by the OPA, representing over 400 megawatts of renewable energy).

The second Shared Air Summit is held and Ontario signs agreements with Quebec to reduce transboundary air pollution, smog and climate change.
Targets are set that will help reduce demand by 6,300 megawatts (MW) of electricity, through conservation, by 2025.
Targets are set that will double the installed capacity of renewable energy sources to 15,700 MW by 2025. (As of July 2007, over 1,300 MW of renewable energy sources have been arranged and more are being pursued.)
September 22, 2006

The Energy Conservation Responsibility Act — the first law of its kind in Canada — is created.
October 6, 2006

Ontario signs agreements with Northeast U.S. states to reduce transboundary air pollution, smog and climate change.
October 16, 2006

The government contracts for over 400 MW of combined heat and power projects. (On June 14, 2007, announced a second CHP procurement.)
December 31, 2006

Ontario's 2006 Building Code introduces energy-efficiency requirements that, over the next seven years, will save enough energy to power 380,000 homes and reduce greenhouse gas emissions by about five megatonnes, the equivalent of taking 250,000 cars off the road.
Emissions from Ontario's coal plants are cut by almost a third between 2003 and 2006.
February 6, 2007

A regulation is proposed banning the burning of used oil in space heaters in southern Ontario, which would significantly reduce greenhouse gas emissions and support better air quality and public health.
February 20, 2007

To increase the supply of hydroelectric power, construction begins to provide an additional 1.6 billion kilowatt hours of clean, renewable electricity per year from Niagara Falls. New transmission lines will also carry more clean energy from Quebec.
A joint $3.7 million program with the federal government and the Ontario Power Authority will encourage the use of energy efficient products in the construction of new housing built under the Canada-Ontario Affordable Housing Program.

The Ministry of the Environment's headquarters switches to Bullfrog Power so that all the building's electricity comes from renewable, low-emission sources.
April 18, 2007

Inefficient incandescent light bulbs are banned, beginning in 2012. When fully implemented, this could save up to six million MWh of electricity.
Five innovative energy conservation programs are launched for summer 2007, providing tools to save energy, money and the environment:

$2 million is provided to the Trees Ontario Foundation, which intends to plant 1.8 million new trees on the Greenbelt by 2010.
April 26, 2007

A new solar energy farm is approved near Sarnia, which will be one of the largest in the world.
April 27, 2007

A commitment is made to provide homeowners with rebates of up to $150 to help pay for home energy audits.

The new PowerWise campaign encourages Ontarians to use energy more efficiently.
May 30, 2007

Ontario and California sign an agreement to fight global warming by coordinating policies on fuel standards. Ontario will require producers to reduce carbon emissions from transportation fuels by 10 per cent by 2020 — the equivalent of removing 700,000 cars from the roads.
June 11, 2007

Funding is doubled to support not-for-profit organizations delivering innovative conservation initiatives in their communities through the $1.5 million Community Conservation Initiatives program. (Last year, the program supported 24 community-based conservation projects across Ontario.) In total the government is enabling up to $2 billion in new investments in conservation across Ontario.
June 13, 2007

The Municipal Eco Challenge Fund is announced — a three-year, $220 million loan and grant program to help municipalities reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
June 14, 2007

North America's first clean-energy Standard Offer program is introduced.
June 15, 2007

A multi-year $17.5 billion rapid transit action plan is launched for the Greater Toronto Area and Hamilton, delivering jobs and investment by reducing congestion.
The Ontario Power Authority's Industrial Demand Response Program will reward companies for reducing their on-grid electricity consumption during periods of high provincial electricity demand. The Ontario Power Authority is planning to introduce additional demand response programs for summer 2007. (The program reduced Ontario peak demand by as much as 182 MW during summer 2006 peaks, and reduced consumption by more than 9,000 MWh.)
June 18, 2007

The third Shared Air Summit brings together more than 400 international leaders to focus on taking tough action to fight climate change and improve air quality.
Ontario signs an agreement with New Brunswick to reduce transboundary air pollution, smog and climate change.
and that would be why the green report card is positive for Ontario.....

Now back to our regularly scheduled program......
 

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So what the Liberals do is enough for you but what the Conservatives do isn't, come on MD, what happened to your "it's never enough" attitude? And from the looks of what the Liberals are doing, it doesn't take much to keep you happy. I'm sure his pen hand is quite tired from all of the promises he's putting his name on, but in any case with a McGuinty promise, I'll believe it when I see it.
 
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