Canadian Mac Forums at ehMac banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,788 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got a copy of Soundtrack (Apples music creation software) to try out. The software states that you need a G4 500 to run it. As my computer is a B&W G4 400, I was presented with a dialogue that said my machine does not meet the requirements of the software and will not run. Now, if I was your average user, I would have left it at that, but doing a little bit of creative programming (removing 2 lines of offending text from within the app package), the app now runs fine on my computer.

Basically, Apple has decided that my machine can't run this software, not because it can't, but because Apple doesn't want it to.

I have found other annoying instances with Panther. I movie3 will not run on my clamshell anymore, not because it can't, it's just apple has decided that you need 1024x768 resolution. So I had to downgrade to imovie2. Even the new version of chess will not run on the clamshell! Comon guys this mac ran Tom Raider & Unreal in OS9.

Is Apple purposely trying to make older macs not work in the interest of selling new machines?
 
G

·
Is Apple purposely trying to make older macs not work in the interest of selling new machines?
Personally speaking, it would not at all surprise me if this was the case.

Then again, Apple may also do that because if the application doesn't run well (or fast) on a Mac under their requirements, they might as well throw in a line of code that will prevent it from running on under-the-system-requirement machines; this way, people can't say "Apple said it would run on my machine, but it runs so shitty and slow, blah, blah, blah..." - prevents both complaining and lawsuits.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,788 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I don't think that is the reasoning behind it. No other software company does that. And I'll bet I can get this software running on my clamshell (G3 300)! Now if your selling software & the software runs fine on a certain machine, why would you disuade those users from bying the product.

I have often said that from the B&W era onward, apple made their pro machines too well. I believe my B&W G3 300 was introduced in 1999, and is now running perfectly acceptably as a G4 400, with plenty of room for upgrade (video card, ram, etc). In fact, with every verion of OSX it gets faster instead of slower.

Apple might be in trouble if they can't get people to forsake there G3s & G4s for the newer G5s.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
Nice work andreww, I don't see why an app like soundtrack will not run on pwerful G3s. Now if it was Final Cut Pro, that would be another story. All those video layers can bog down even a dual G4.

Now if only someone could figure out how to hack the ROM chip on G5s to let them boot OS 9 natively. That would be the bomb!

Apple has to force users and developers to upgrade somehow. And this is how they do it. Soon my older OS 9 macs probably won't be able to even surf the net because the web pages will be optimised for OS X whatever...and that will only operate on the most recent iteration of powermacs. Apple has to keep the money coming in somehow. Only power users like myself have the need to upgrade every year. Most average users will get 5 years out of a computer if they just type and surf the net. My Father-In-law has a pentium at home for his personal computer. Talk about ancient history. It still does just fine for him, but I can't work on it..it drives me crazy how slow it operates!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
363 Posts
No other software company does that.
let's remember ut2003. it won't run on a 12" albook even though the albook surpasses its system requirements.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,115 Posts
Andreww: You say your Blue and White is a G4? Unless I am wrong, the B&W was only a G3 PPC Mac. G4 upgrade per chance? If that's the case, Apple publically doesn't support processor upgrades which would lead me to believe that the software still thinks you are running a G3.

That being said, my guess is that Apple most likely prevents G3's from using a lot of their newer software packages due to the Altivec implementation which helps out with various things like realtime previews in Final Cut, etc. (Do G4 upgrades have Altivec?)

Aside from that, I believe there are hacks in iMovie to get around the G3 thing... or at least there have been in the past with non-firewire equipped G3s and such. But, you'll need the real estate on screen with the revised menu and effects panel.

Anyway, yeah, it sucks... it's hard to maintain an investment with Apple's products if they keep pushing their software out of your Mac's reach but there are a lot of legitimate reasons why apps like Final Cut and Soundtrack couldn't run efficiently on your Mac. iMovie on the other hand...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,812 Posts
where did you tweak the app?? Can you post your work?? Enquiring minds want to know...


H!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,788 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ohenri, its pretty simple really.

1. Install Soundtrack

2. Control click on soundtrack and select "Show package contents".

3. In the Contents folder Control click on "Info.plist" and select "Open with" and select Text Edit.

4. you will now see some code. The first four indented lines look something like this:


AELMinimumCPUSpeedDual
450
AELMinimumCPUSpeedSingle
500

5. Delete these lines:


and this one if you want to run on a G3

AELRequiredCPUType
G4

6. Save (select to overwrite)

7. You will now be able to launch and serialize Soundtrack
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,672 Posts
Most of these requirements are to protect Apple from lawsuits.. and they also only develop on a certain platform.

Sure, you can run any app on any machine, but how good does the machine actually handle the application?

Cheers,

RtC
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,788 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It handles it beautifully. No difference from my 867. I really dont think they do this to protect themselves from lawsuits.

Its funny that Panther will not run on the Beige G3s, or will it? Again apple has simply denied access, and users have already found ways around the roadblock.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,247 Posts
It's not that it won't run (on X system); it's that it's not supported.

There may be issues that came up in beta testing or whatever. If Apple puts in an installation check to prevent unsupported installs, then it solves a lot of grief for them (ie people might lie about which system it's runing on when they call support; they might complain that they didn't notice it wasn't compatible when they bought it; or don't want to uninstall it because "it runs fine, except I have this one problem").

Anyway, the scripts are easy to modify, and Apple hasn't hidden them very deeply. I would be suprised if they wern't totally aware of it (ie how simple a workaround would be); they could have buried the check in hex or something. But it's enough to show they don't support that particular configuration.

So, if you go to the trouble of hacking the installer, you pretty much know it's not supported on your hardware.

You may well never see the issue while running the app; there's a million possible configurations out there and only so much time to test, but think how you would feel if a project was eaten and Apple said the software was compatible and stable, when they knew it wasn't.

As far as OSX and unsupported G3's, again you can make it work but it's unsupported. It is likely that a given release can be hacked to run, but OSX development is not stuck at today's release; they're looking at stuff that won't show up for years; or perhaps was supposed to be here now but needs more work.

At some point they needed to make a decision about future compatibilty (ie they made this decision years ago, during development) and they did. We might not like that decision, but it had to be made and that means there has to be a line drawn somewhere.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,795 Posts
I don't know about Soundtrack, but I can't see the iMovie 3 experience being good on a clamshell. App window just has too much stuff in it to be as easy to use as it is supposed to be at 800x600.

--PB
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,247 Posts
Soundtrack was split from Final Cut Pro; my totally uneducated guess is they played it safe and used FCP testing data to determine target compatibility.

PB does make a point though, in that supported software is as much about speed as hardware compatibility itself.

Reviewers rarely have the latest and greatest hardware and editors choose writers based on compatible hardware, even if it's a little dated.

There's probably a lot of factors that go into the testing; like anything they try to get it running on as many systems as possible (you can sell more copies that way) but it's hard to say exactly which issue most influenced the decision, and how hard the line is between compaible and broken on older stuff.

There are companies out there where the marketing divison makes all those decisions (ie "will run on an abacus, only 149, buy now!) while others are engineering-dependant.

In my experience if Apple says it will run, it usually does and if they say it won't, they err on the side of caution.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top