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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well I'm a Windows user who's looking for an older G3/G4 that will run OS9 and OSX. I would like to spend $1000 or so with tax. In terms of hardware, I'd like 256mb ram, atleast 10gb hard drive (20gb would be better), a CD-RW is a must, either an AGP or PCI video card as long as it can handle OSX and support Quartz, possibly a 32mb card. I'd also like OS9 and OSX to be inluded in the cost. I don't expect a monitor to be included, simply the PC itself.

I'd also like to know how much a "Sawtooth" Mac would cost (I'm expecting way more then $1K) but would I be better going for a newer G4 over a first gen G4 or early AGP G4 (In terms of stability and problem free operation)?

Also, how much would a G4 Cube with the following specs 400mhz - 500mhz, 512mb ram, 20gb hard drive, Combo or CD-RW drive, OS9 and OSX cost me? Just curious.
 

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The 400-500 sawtooths are in the 750-1000 range, Im guessing.
I think you could find a 466, 533, or 733 Powermac for a thousand dollars. Thes have 4 speed AGP and 133 bus speed, and better video cards
The 533 is faster than the 733 in most tasks due to larger caches. The dual 500 is also a nice machine, but is not often found for sale. So I woulkd go for either a single 533, a dual 500, or a faster single 867 G4 which should also be close to price range, maybe 1100 or so.
If you get a dual 500 or any sawtooth, a newer video card is a must for OS X.

These are my thoughts, if you are patient, you can get a nice system for about a grand or so that will last you well for 3 years.
 

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I'd also like to know how much a "Sawtooth" Mac would cost (I'm expecting way more then $1K) but would I be better going for a newer G4 over a first gen G4 or early AGP G4 (In terms of stability and problem free operation)?
The Sawtooth (aka AGP Graphics) is the second generation G4. The very first ones, called Yikes! or PCI Graphics are good machines, but really differ very little from Blue & White G3s - basically just added a G4 processor and different plastics.

You should be able to find a Sawtooth for $800 or so, depending on configuration. Processor speeds are 350, 400 and 450 MHz. They are highly upgrade-friendly - I have one with an 800 MHz processor upgrade, a Radeon 8500 video card, a 7200 rpm 80 MB hard drive and a SuperDrive (Pioneer DVD burner.) Works really well.

Cheers :-> Bill
 

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" ... By the way, I'm thinking of a getting a Mac as a Christmas gift for myself, so if I were to wait closer to Christams, are there chances of these prices dropping a lot? ..."

This is exactly the same in the PC world, so I'm suprised you haven't noticed, but prices are going to be about the same from now till Xmas.

Right after Xmas, when all the "family computer" purchases are done and the retailers & manufacturers have your money, prices will drop. Add-ons will also drop in price, but not as much (because people want to upgrade the Xmas box, and the retailers & manufacturers want to get the most cash for this stuff while they can).

Mac prices tend to drop in January/February; that's when Apple typically releases updated models. So, the question becomes, are you willing to spend $100 more now on a used machine and get 4-6 months use for that hundred bucks?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the reply's guys. It's good to know that I could get a "newer" G4 for $1000.

A member on this board PM'd me with the following:

G4 400 agp 256 20 g CDRW OS9 and Jaguar Apple KB and mouse for $990

or a

Cube G4 450 256 20 gig DVD Apple Cube speakerswith Apple pro KB and optical mouse OS9 and OSX 10.1 ( not Jaguar ) $1090

-- What's the differnce between 10.1 and Jaguar, and would I need to upgrade?

and then another member PM'd me with this:

G4 466
47 gig
384megs of ram
cdrw
ati rage pro 16meg agp
pro keyboard and mouse
fire wire
usb
10/100/1000enet
modem

- $1000 shipped.

I'm not sure which exact model Macs these are but seems that a 500mhz, let alone a 733mhz Mac is not in my price range.

I'm considering the Cube, although I'm not sure what vid card is included, I think I'd like a 32mb GeForce if I got an agp Mac. Any ideas how much those go for? Is the Cube AGP or PCI video?

By the way, I'm thinking of a getting a Mac as a Christmas gift for myself, so if I were to wait closer to Christams, are there chances of these prices dropping a lot? Maybe some of the better G4's dropping in price as more people get G5s? IF so then I won't botehr looking right now and wait closer to the end of November.
 

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The Cube Deal sounds pretty good - although you will need to upgrade to Jaguar since a lot of programs require it - if I were you I would wait till Panther came out and upgrade to that, its supposed to be by the end of this year. Maybe you can get him to shave a few bucks off the price because of the older OS.
 

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I recently purchased a G4 400 sawtooth/ 1gig ram/80 gig HD/16meg ati card and 8 meg ati card for $700 total from a member right here on ehmac. I think you should be able to find what you want in your price range. Just be patient and your mac will come for sale right here. If you visit every day you will be surprised how many deals are to be had. Most are in the GTA so if ou pick up you avoid shipping costs as well.
 

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None of these prices are really out of line. The Gigabit Ethernet machine (the 466) is a pretty good deal, even.

Cubes are very cool, but they aren't readily expandable. As a former PC type, you probably think Macs aren't expandable enough as it is. However, the Cube REALLY IS difficult to upgrade. Very cool though...

People are giving you good advice-wait for Panther. If you buy a Mac that comes with OS X, just use it as-is until the panther appears.

My advice - go for the 466 tower. It's a winner, it's expandable, and the price is good. Most of the features list is padding, though - that stuff is standard equipment that came in the box.

Incidentally, don't worry too much about the processor speeds you can fix that later when you have more money - these Macs are really easy to upgrade. 800 MHz costs about $400, including tax. 1 GHz is about $600-700.

Cheers :-> Bill
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well I though prices would drop around Christmas since some people who have purchased G5's would be selling their older machines.

I want to buy private becasue I want to get a good deal but not having a warranty bugs me, atleast if you buy fro ma store you get a little bit of a warranty, or at the least have some one to go to to try and get a fix!

As much as I like to get a Cube, I probably won't since I haven't seen any Cubes with a built in CD-RW, and I really don't want an external drive do to space, and the additional cost.

THanks for the replys though. I'll keep an eye out in sales forum, maybe I'll find my Mac.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I might do that, try and get as much cash as I can put aside and just contact macdoc and have him put togetehr a 466 G4 with a good CDRW and otehr specs I want, and also getthem to just set the entire thing up for me.

Thanks for all the advice, I do appreciate it.

I have anotehr question, since MasterBlaster mentioned a Radeon or GeForce card is needed for Quartz in OSX, is htere any real difference between Nvidia card and ATI cards in the Mac world. I mean on the PC side, everyone just cares about DirectX but that doesn't exist on the Mac, so what should I look for?

If I were to have a 466 customized for me, I think I'd like to add a 64mb Radeon 8500 or GeForce MX with 64mb. Are these cards expensive for Macs, I mean these are cheap cards for PCs so I'd figure a GeForce 64mb card would cost around $60 used, maybe $85-$100 new, but I'm coming from the PC workd where vid cards drop in price a lot, especially with the latest release of the DX9 cards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well I found this Mac ofr same just now in the sales forum and am strongly consdiering it:

Power Mac G4 AGP 450 MHz
Codename: Sawtooth
Graphite Tower
256 MB RAM (one module)
27 GB Hard Drive
100 MB Zip Drive
DVD-RAM Drive
10/100/1000Base-T Ethernet
Two USB connections
Two Firewire connections
Video Out VGA/DVI, ADC
Small keyboard and hockey puck mouse.

I just want to find out if I can use the DVD-ram drive to burn CD-R or CD-RW and if the AGP is 2x or 4x and how much memory the video card has.

I also have a new question, if I buy a Mac with OS9, can I make it dual-boot to OSX if I buy and install OSX myself or is there something more to it? Also, can someone explain how having two OSs on a Mac works? I know if your in OSX and run an older app it will launch OS9 and run the app there but can I choose to run OS9 anytime I want?
 

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Quartz needs a minimum of a 32 mb video card to gain accelleration(except in the case of mobile radeons)
The stock 16mb card will still function in OSX in the meantime.
Jaguar is the code name for OS 10.2.X, it is a fantasic OS in my humble opinion, I use it every day.
10.3 is Panther out next month or so.
Mac video cards are more expensive than the PC equivalents, but some people have luck by flashing PC video cards on a windows machine first, at your own risk.
The 500mhz sawtooth is older than the 466 powemac, the 466 has 4X AGP etc and should do you fine, but I would still keep an eye out for for anything in a 533, 667, 733 etc. The Sawtooth 500 is still a great Mac and should still be fine in OsX with lots of ram.
The cubes are lovely but you pay more for it due to the popularity of the unusual design.

OS 9 and 10 can work together in 2 ways, you can boot into 9 on most Macs or launch Os9 apps from the classic environment within OsX. On a slower Mac, Os9 is signifigantly faster, especially when booted from a Os9 system folder.
You will need a minimum of a 20 gig HD, and 256mb ram to use both 9 and X . more ram is very useful in X for multitasking
just some thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Okay, from all the info I'm getting here I should try and get the following setup:

G4 466 4x AGP (as everyone seems to agree that the 466 is a good machine)
512mb ram
20gb to 40gb HD (I also have a LaCie 60gb fire wire drive so I just want to have room for OSX and OS9 and a few apps)
4x AGP Radeon or GeForce with 32mb or maybe even 64mb ram
CD-RW drive
OS9 and OSX

Would it be realistic to expect something of this config for $1000 with tax? I mean SD-ram, a 40gb hard drive, and 52x CDRW should be cheap, so the real cash grabber is the cpu and video card. Any ideas what a 32mb card as well as a 64mb card goes for?

I'd like to really know waht to ask for before emailing macdoc.

And I just want to let people know I really do appreciate all the replys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ok, I decided to check out Apple's site to see if I could find some old specs and I came across this article: Power Mac G4: How to Differentiate Between Models

So basically, I'm looking for a Digital Audio G4 466mhz or 533mhz with a Nvidea GeForce 2 or ATI Radeon 32mb, 512mb ram, 20gb - 30gb hard drive and CD-RW. Can this be had for $1000 or less with tax? I hope so.

For some reason, I thought the digital audio Macs were the Quicksilver Macs, am I right on this?
 

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Your problem is that the 133 bus series DA ( Digital Audio ) and Quicksilver are in high demand - there are very few on the market.
Video cards for Macs are on the expensive side with the added problem that every Cube owner wants the 32 meg GeForce 2MX or Radeon 7500 for there Cube so you only have hand me downs from DP867 - these are in demand for the audio guys who want two monitors without giving up a PCI slot plus everyone going to Jaguar so - few cards, large demand = high price.

RAM is going up this time of year.
Drives are cheap.
The DA and QS have Pro Keyboards and optical mice which Apple puts at the ridiculous price point of $190 or so the set :eek:
The performance delta between a 466 1 meg cache and an 800 QS is almost nil.

So while there are lots of 100 mHz G4s in Sawtooth and Gigabit and even Yikes under $1k the better architecture of the 133 series make them attractrive to keep or upgrade = very few on the market.
See now this looks attractive
G4/733             128MB/40GB/CDRW/ZIP QS          $845.00
G4/733             256MB/60GB/CDRW/ZIP DA         $795.00
G4/533             256MB/40GB/CDRW                       $695.00
from a list sent TO dealers, not retail but for RESALE.
Pricing seems reasonable - 'cept it's in US funds :eek:

This is the market, NOT price fixing, it's driven by demand.
100 mHz prices are driving downward, there are lots and demand is lower than supply.
133 boxes are few and demand is high.
All your conclusions are drawn by others. = high demand.

This is all complicated by demand for OS9 bootable boxes AND Apple's poor supply of the popular 1.25 gHz MDD dual boot series. All this = few bargains in the 133 bus towers.
Your bet bet would be to find a 1 gHz X only tower - but it's bound to be in the mid teens.
As you are finding out this is NOT the PC market




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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Macdoc, I really appreciate you taking the time to expplain all this to me, I do appreciate your help and patience wit hall my questions.

So a digital audio mac is most likely out of the question for my budget.

So the Mac you quoted me, the G4 400 2x agp 256 20 g CDRW OS9 and Jaguar Apple KB and mouse for $990 is the best I can get at the moment within my price range? This is with an ATI Rage 16mb card and of course is not including taxes right?

Out of curiousity, how much would a Digital Audio G4 466mhz with a Nvidea GeForce 2 or ATI Radeon 32mb, 512mb ram, 20gb hard drive and CD-RW cost me with tax if it was available?

Also, as a note to other Mac users, can you all upgrade to G5's so I can get an older Mac for cheap, that way everybody wins!!!
 

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> The performance delta between a 466 1 meg cache and an 800 QS is almost nil.

I'm fond of the G4/466, in my family it's a trusty everyday surfer/gaming machine. With a gig of RAM and a GeForce 2MX, it's a pretty darn good performer. Often people refer to these as being "just a 466", but as you mentioned, it's right there with the 733 and 800 singles. Yet most people steer clear of them because, again, it's "just a 466".

Definitely one of the more underrated of the older G4 towers.

-Howie
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'm fond of the G4/466, in my family it's a trusty everyday surfer/gaming machine. With a gig of RAM and a GeForce 2MX, it's a pretty darn good performer. Often people refer to these as being "just a 466", but as you mentioned, it's right there with the 733 and 800 singles. Yet most people steer clear of them because, again, it's "just a 466".
Hey, I do want a 466 problem is I don't think I can get one within my budget, I think. Well, atleast now I know which exact Mac I want, I'll just keep an eye out or it.
 
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