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Paranormal ESP - that entire spectrum but NOT ghosts

  • I do not beleive there is ANY validity.

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Discussion Starter #1
Just watched a Sasquatch docu. I know there have been some statements that one of the key pieces was a hoax ala the Loch Ness hoax.

That said there are a few almost mythical areas of uncertainty with a terrific body of anecdotal and some inconclusive physical evidence.

This poll is a look at what YOU think. Discussion as hot as you like encouraged.

Here's some links - caveat emptor

http://www.divernet.com/biolog/1202monster.htm

http://www.wsu.edu/~delahoyd/sasquatchlinks.html

http://www.naprs.us/link.htm

http://www.monstertracker.com/

http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/bookmrk2.html

more good ones welcome. Personal stories really welcome. :cool:
 

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That said there are a few almost mythical areas of uncertainty with a terrific body of anecdotal and some inconclusive physical evidence.
Sounds like a potential discussion on the existance of God.

*runs far and fast*

;)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hmmm we've got two voters so far having personal experiences with ESP/Paranormal :eek: care to share??

I almost put my vote in that category due to one "precognition" indicent that was so mundane yet so real it's stuck with me as a real head scratcher.
What I put it down to was my peripheral vision and subconcious picking up the potential and only as it actually occurred did I become aware of it.

Interesting as well that 2 voters so far wrote off big primates but only one writing off ghosts :eek:

Pretty open minded group so far. :D

Let's hear those up close and personal.... ;)
 

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Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs. That said, I remain open to genuine proof, not mumbo-jumbo, hocus-pocus nonsense.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Okay that's a big broad pontifical statement. I mean there are people questioning the Moon Landing too.


We've had 18 voters with some interesting results but little in the way of thoughts on any specific categories or reasoning as to WHY the Sasquatch and Ogogpogo seem less likely than UFO's :eek:

Surely we have some opinions out there? - these are pretty popular topics for discussions as there are so many pretty convincing reports in most categories.

Our one iconclastic vote about there being no large marine "monsters' yet to be discovered seems a bit premature given how little we've explored the ocean depths and how BIG the ocean volume is. :D

This might be pause for thought. It's too bad some of the remains were destroyed in the Blitz. This is a very interesting case and a pretty good website about it. Fascinating.

http://members.fortunecity.com/yvonneoforkney/beast/id20.html

[ March 28, 2004, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: MacDoc ]
 

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MacDoc: We've had 18 voters with some interesting results but little in the way of thoughts on any specific categories or reasoning as to WHY the Sasquatch and Ogogpogo seem less likely than UFO's

Simple. Where are they?

Now that may seem a bit trite, but when examining the question it has great bearing. With the exception of certain regions of the Amazon basin, we, i.e. the people of the earth, have sufficient coverage over the planet to provide for the likelihood of having located a population of the size necessary to enable a species such as a large semi-intelligent mammal to continue to exist. If nothing else, such a group would, by it's nature, leave a more discernible track than has been found in any of the various regions which are purported to be their home.

On the other hand, UFO's have provided us with no opportunity to answer the same question with any degree of certainty. In fact the math is much more in favour of their existance than against it.

We have explored, to one degree or another 99% of the earth's surface. We have yet to explore 99.999999999999999...% of space.

Incidentally, I am one of the ones with the personal experience with a UFO.

Mike
 

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the issue is not so much as to whethere extraterretrial intelligence exists, it is more an issue of can we communicate with them

the vastness of space and the limited lifetimes of intelligent and communicative societies limit such interactions

for more info. try looking at Drake's Equation

"Timing [truly] is everything."
 

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Discussion Starter #12
We have also explored very little of the ocean.

There are very credible tales of big cats way out of their range including in England and even in Southern Ontario - that they can hide and in some cases likely breed right under civilization's nose leads me to think there are STILL a few "surprises" awaiting us on land and for sure in the water.

BTW how about some details of these "close encounters" gents. :D
 

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There is no doubt in my mind that UFO's/Aliens exist.

This is a subject that I have been interested in since I was young, and it has never seemed like Science Fiction too me. it actually seemed impossible that we could be the only intelligent life in the universe. As a matter of fact, it would be arrogant to think that we are the only intelligent life in this infinite universe.

As far as Big Foot, "Nessie", and Ghosts go, well, I would need to do more research and see more evidence to really convince me.

Bottom line, there many things that define logical explanation.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I'm highly skeptical on UFOs because of the physics of the universe as we know it but I must admit this one

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/RendleshamForest.htm

was quite an intriguing incident and hard to explain from a terrestrial standpoint alone.

This site seems quite thorough
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/physicalevidence.htm

•••

Wow 10 people with firm opinions on NO LAKE MONSTERS despite hundreds of years of reports and sitings :eek:

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf072/sf072b05.htm

I mean there are dozens of similar sightings certainly enough to ALLOW the possibility I would suggest.


http://collections.ic.gc.ca/ogopogo/press/press28.html

[ March 29, 2004, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: MacDoc ]
 

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I'm highly skeptical on UFOs because of the physics of the universe as we know it
That is a common problem amongst us.

We have a limited way of seeing how things are - stating "that's impossible". Is it really so impossible for space travel?

With our current way of thinking and with the current laws of physics - yes.

Could the technology already be there that allows us to travel into space? Is there a hidden agenda by the governments/economies of the world that is suppressing this information and technology?

What we have to do is think outside of the box. There may be laws that we have not yet discovered yet. Who is to say that our current laws of physics are absolute? We thought at one point that the earth was flat. That was an absolute fact at one point, yet we now know how ludicrous that notion really was.
 

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I agree that it's probable that life exists elsewhere in the universe. I would be far more shocked to learn there wasn't, and only a little less shocked to learn it wasn't widespread.

What I have a hard time with is all the other assumptions we make when we believe that Extraterrestial Beings use Space Travel to visit Earth. I find that very difficult to believe, on a wide variety of grounds. Thus, I'm skeptical.

Either they are so vastly different from us that it's irrelevant; we wouldn't recognize them for what they are if they were amongst us now (No "space ships", that's what people would drive) or they just aren't interested in coming. Surely the universe has more interesting things than us to poke about with. But, I will grant that one offers interesting possibilities. No UFO's though.

Why would they even come this way? The cool stuff is towards the centre of the universe, not out in the sticks where we are. You could find a dozen solar systems to explore that are closer together in the time it would take for a one-way trip to ours. But, anyway, an interesting one to ponder.

We've been around a few thousand years; we've been perhaps mildly interesting for 2,000 and have only been dangerous for a hundred. What makes us think any intelligent life form would even survive long enough to poke around the universe? Humans won't.

We aren't going to survive another 2 millennia; I'm more sure of that than I am about Space Travel to Earth by others. Or, if we do survive, we won't remember how to build rockets. Losing that skill and all the technology that's poisoning us or enabling us to kill everything here is our only hope of staying alive on this planet for a few thousand more.

But, let's assume we do survive, and maintain our technology while learning more.

Reach out and touch your monitor, and say "I am the Sun, you are the Earth". If the Earth to the Sun is 1m away, a distance we have no idea how to cross yet, consider Pluto is 40m away from you; about a city block. Now, how many arms lengths' is it from Toronto to Kingston? That's the nearest star to Earth (Rigel Kentaurius; often incorrectly called Alpha Centari). LIkelyhood of life? Near Zero. We have to look further. Still, it's a neat place to check out. Better rest there for a while.

How fast does our space vehicle travel? I can understand how ET requires a belief in super-advanced science beyond our current comprehension.

At a speed of 360,000 km/h it would take over 14 thousand years to reach this star from Earth. This is 5 times faster than any rocket we know how to make, and we cannot actually launch such a rocket from Earth; the fuel payload is too big. We would have to store fuel in space and pick it up; preferrably far from Earth (it's more weight to try to accelerate out of orbit).

So, ion engines then (that we don't know how to make yet). Now we are limited by electrical capacity. Before someone says "let's use solar cells" I'm going to have to remind you you are trying to get as far away from the sun as possible. Zero solar capacity, assuming you expect to go anywhere.

And so on. I will admit that the possibility that there are life forms that in no way resemble ours or Earth's for that matter, that might just be popping around space here and there. But I don't for a second think humans will ever do so.

So, how to explain UFO's that supposedly are modeled on our idea of what we would use? They move at "amazing" speed; according to witnesses, but not too fast to be seen at all. Perhaps 50 times faster than our modern rockets, or 2 million miles per hour. (Earth to Moon in 7 minutes. Earth to our nearest star in 1400 years).

Well, that's just not fast enough.To work at all, they would have to appear invisible. I don't buy it.

Check out this interesting link:
Astronomical Distances
 

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Wacko theory is more like it.

You gotta love this one:
" ... It was in the middle of my 6-year investigation into NASA Space Shuttle UFO phenomena when I realized that all of the NASA UFOs appeared to be made of light. ..."

Umm, they're photos. Images. Pictures. These are made of recorded light. Can you photograph me? I must be made of light too then! See you in the next galaxy.

"... Spacecraft made of light. How did they do it? ..."

How, indeed. By the ancient art of pseudo-science, whereby you cite science and then misapply it in common, everyday language that anyone can mis-understand.

The guy uses Quantum Physics and applies it to planets and space ships. But particles bigger than quantum size don't act that way; they act like regular Physics says they will. Always. With 100% predictability. Now and forever.

And it still would take 4.3 years to travel to the Alpha Centari Star System for that magic bus. (A magic bus that, if you skip back to the first few paragraphs, he himself explains whey it won't work, and then gets you to forget that and takes you on a wild ride into the worst kind of mumbo-jumbo; ie the stuff "supported" by junk science).

The day they arrived, we'd be 40 million years old back here on Earth. Send us a postcard. The next life form might be able to read it.

[ March 29, 2004, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: gordguide ]
 

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and then there are tachyons

and this little "diddy", i just love scientific humour


There was a young lady named Bright,
Whose speed was far faster than light.
She went out one day,
In a relative way,
And returned the previous night!

-Reginald Buller


for those with 1st year physics try this tachyon link

[ March 29, 2004, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: MACSPECTRUM ]
 
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