[stinand]

I just bought a Media 100 board on EBay for $2000.00 which got me to wondering why in the hell would anybody buy Final Cut Pro?

FCP is the sweetheart of many industries. The book industry loves it due to it’s poor non standard interface…. it needs some really good books to “help you through it”. Due to it’s lack of non real time features …..the hardware industry loves it . Due to it’s ever-growing need for processor speed Apple loves it.

The 3rd party developers are making a whack of money from people, who don’t get that, to get a close to professional usable system (unless you have a second profession during “rendering”) you need to spend close to $15,000. Take a look around there are other superior systems for the money.


FCP offers all sorts of added “toys” for the cheesy wedding photographers, however as most serious video’s are mainly cuts and dissolves what use are they.

FCP is Apples cash cow I’m just amazed at the number of people that like getting milked

 

[MacDaddy]

Whatchu talkin bout Willis?
I know NUMEROUS Professional people that use FCP on a FT basis for cutting Documentary's, Commercials, Corporate Videos, Movie Trailers (Most of the trailers you see now are cut on FCP) and Full Length Features (I know Jet Boy was cut with FCP).
Some of them use older G4 systems, some of them use new Dual Processor machines all without an extra $2000 card, and they don't have alot of free time waiting for renders, they mostly use Offline editing which goes much quicker and is very easy to do (From what I have been told, as I have not done it yet). FCP is a very high end program for video editing and alot of Media100 and Avid people are switching because they have tried it and admit that is a much better system than what they were using (One guy I sold an FCP system to had a $45,000 Media100 suite (about a year and a half old too) and his G4 and FCP blows it away @ a price of $6300).
You should talk to some people that use it FT on decent machines with lots of RAM and see what they say about it, you will probably be very surprised.

 

[SpanishJoe]

I want to help this thread along:

-Apple is a stupid company who makes stupid products for teh stupid baibies!!11!
-Apples are for stupid baibies who can't use an L33T system like my NVIDIA MX beasty!!1! LOL!!
-Steve Job wears bad Bi-Way turtlenecks and looked better with the beard like Riker LOL!! ROFFLE!!!!1!!

Ignore trolls. It's better for your blood pressure.

-SJ.

 

[stinand]

Mac Daddy. You sell it so therefore it’s good.BTW what is you video background?

Just to clarify I have tried FCP on a couple of my machines all current G4’s with lots of ram. BTW the $2000.00 card you mentioned (RT Mac I presume) does not work in OSX.

FCP is not real time I have a couple of Media 100 suites and use Avid often and that’s the standard the industry defines as real time, no waiting to “print to tape. Offline is fine you can do that with any decent system however with FCP you still have to render. Right now I’m working on a 3 hour piece with 234 picture inserts all with transitions. Once I’m finished I lay it down to tape. Time saved = dollars in my pocket.

Lets look at your claim the FCP blows Media 100 .

FCP does not support uncompressed at all. There is no waveform/vectorscope in realtime … a must have to keep broadcast safe. No audio missing tool hell even Premier has that. No support for Type1 Postscript fonts. Oh yes no AAF metadata support so how the heck do you do audio to keyframe. The list goes on and on.

Now if you want all the features of a professional system as an example
Power Macintosh G4, 1000MHz Dual
- Final Cut Pro 3.0
- Cleaner Pro 6.0
- Sonicfire Pro Mac Bundle
- CinéWave Upgrade for FCP no Analog BOB
- CinéWave Pro Analog Option
- CinéWave Pro HD Digital Option

This will cost $24,000 USD now what else can I get for this money http://www.media100.com/844xfamily.asp. After you whip through these spec you might get the idea that FCP aint’ there yet. It is however in it’s basic form cheap.
Only want to spend $ $7000.00 CAD? Check out www.edirol.coma very nice solution.

The real enemy to FCP is it’s being sold by a bunch of Mac retailers that know little about video editing. The real systems are sold by people who specialize in video.

 

[stinand]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SpanishJoe:
I want to help this thread along:

-Apple is a stupid company who makes stupid products for teh stupid baibies!!11!
-Apples are for stupid baibies who can't use an L33T system like my NVIDIA MX beasty!!1! LOL!!
-Steve Job wears bad Bi-Way turtlenecks and looked better with the beard like Riker LOL!! ROFFLE!!!!1!!

Ignore trolls. It's better for your blood pressure.

-SJ.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not a problem consider yourself ignored

 

[dibenga]

Soderburg (Director of Solaris) swears by FCP. Frankly Media 100 is on the way out.

Avid puts out a $5000 software solution called "Avid Express DV" which really blows the doors off FCP but doesn't match the price point.

Paying $2000 for that media 100 sounds cool, but you arn't going to get much support for it. And let me tell you. The Media 100 system screams for support. I know this first hand as my dept has numerous M100 systems.

Just my 2 cents

 

[stinand]

Originally posted by dibenga:
[QB]Soderburg (Director of Solaris) swears by FCP. Frankly Media 100 is on the way out.

Yes the old I series is not being developed but the 844x is the toast of the town check ti out.

Your right Media 100 support sucks however I've only had to call them twice in 6 years.

Who is dishing out support for FCP ? Apple ? Now thats scary!!!

 

[dibenga]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stinand:
Who is dishing out support for FCP ? Apple ? Now thats scary!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True VERY true!! lol.

 

[MacDaddy]

In my background I have used the Media100 system, but had too many problems with it (We had to have it repaired 4 times in 3 weeks) and switched to Premiere and FCP.
Just because I sell Macintosh does not mean that it is the best (Though it is)
Even if I did not sell them, I would still tell people to get an FCP system for editing because I believe it is the best system to use at this point (And I get this from the dozens of Film and Video professionals that I deal with that use FCP in a production environment on a daily basis.)
The $2000 card I mentioned, I mentioned as why spend that on a card, I personally do not care for matrox products as they seem to take forever to update and support their products.

 

[PosterBoy]

Well, if this isn't a battle of opinion then I don't know what is!

--PB

 

[stinand]

Well I’m amazed that you got your Media 100 repaired so quickly to Marlboro Mass and back. The issue with the boards is heat put extra fans in the computer and life is wonderful.

I’m so glad that you skipped over all of the other products and the glaring deficiencies with FCP and the high cost of a “real system. Quoting dozens of houses that use it daily does not convince me of anything. I don’t see the TV stations flocking to FCP or any other major organization for that matter what I have seen is a growth in “video production houses’ now that it’s so affordable

The bottom line to me is money we use the suites to turn a profit, which is quickest the most effective to achieve that is my goal . You can make a cut and dissolve video in IMovie (NBC news teams did in Afghanistan) but that don’t make it the best editing tool.

The bottom line to me is profit I can’t be waiting around for rendering 3 hour videos and then lay it down to tape. Last June we turned out 21 videos in 20 days any extra rendering time would have killed us and not allowed us to meet deadlines.

Apple has cracked this market by being the first one on the block with a DV editing prog. They caught the industry knapping and FCP sat a nice price point . I have wiring harnesses worth more than that. Now producers are realizing the money that you have to spend to bring this baby up to pro speed the shine is going off the Apple J

The market is reacting, and fast the 844x is revolutionary an editing an compositing tool in real time all in one for $25,000. Avid has answered back with Avid Xpress which is scaleable to larger machines. The venerable premiere has had it’s make over and really rocks with some of the faster windows machines. The other players have now shown up for the battle ( late but they did show up) and it’s only just begun.

Last February I was giving a keynote at the DV Expo in New York and was seriously thinking of switching to another product, but I truly couldn’t see how the investment was going to payback. FCP just didn’t offer anything that I didn’t already have and the support was a bunch of computer resellers.

. The future of FCP isn’t so bright as the next step is a total rewrite of the core to remove the existing Windows code that remains in it (remember where it came from) and to also rewrite OS 9 code that is still in their. The other issue is chip speed, much though I love my Macs the Windows boxes are much faster and FCP can only run on a Mac.

But who cares at $1,500.00 it’s a disposable item.

 

[stinand]

Thrown into the mix for the Media 100 is dead crowd . Funny no mention of FCP
SNIP
(April 18, 2002) Marlboro, MA -- Media 100 Inc., a leading provider of advanced media systems, was recognized with two prestigious "best of show" awards at the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) Convention last week in Las Vegas, NV. The newly introduced 844/X is the company's next generation system for content design and has been selected by the editors of Videography, Government Video, Digital Cinema, Digital TV, and the Creative Planet Communities for The Vidy Award honoring "Advancement in the Art & Science of Video Technology."

TV Technology magazine also awarded 844/X with the Star 2002 Superior Technology Award.

Media 100 unveiled 844/X in February of 2002, and publicly debuted the system on the show floor at NAB this year.

844/X is a content design system to deliver real-time image processing, along with 10-bit internal precision, to support the design and editing of complex, highly-creative, evocative, visual effects- and layers-intensive audio-visual content. Designed specifically for broadcast designers, visual effects artists and online editors, 844/X delivers fast, fluid workflow, breakthrough image processing speed and precision, output image and audio quality in a desktop configuration using standard PCs and storage.

 

[SpanishJoe]

OK - everyone on this thread is very knowledgeable, and is even pushing Apple hardware. I'm sorry, stinand, for the troll comment, but you have to admit, the opening argumant was rather harsh. FCP is not just for "cheezy wedding photographers", because that's what iDVD is for

There's a simple answer to all of this though:

-Hard to get a Media 100 card into a Powerbook.

And believe me, that is a selling point for a lot of "on-the-road" editors. There's a whole bunch of applications for travel editing for just-in-time footage. From the independent fimmaker that wants to edit his shots on location without taking them back to the studio, to the news, sports and multimedia applications, as well as the "prosumer" enthusiast (like me) who likes to do something a little better than iMovie, FCP is an affordable and practical solution. Sure, other options exist (Premiere (crap), Avid stuff (expensive)), but for the vast majority of desktop video editors, FCP will meet their needs without going the whole hog WITHOUT buying the super-high-end Macs that you've described.

Congratulations on your purchase. I hope it works out for you. If the Media 100 board is really great, I might try it out, but I don't do anything more than training and stock footage, which is admittedly far less "high tech" than any commerical-producing production house.

-SJ.

 

[hayesk]

Stinand, please tell us, what is your problem? You start the thread basically insulting FCP and saying no professional would ever use it.

Why the troll? Usually people who come out of nowhere with such comments are dealing with their own feelings of inadequacy. No offence intended, but it almost seems like you have regret purchasing your card and are trying to justify it with us. Otherwise, why do you feel compelled to tell us how much you don't like FCP?

Just accept the fact that there are professionals that produce broadcast-quality professional work with FCP, and there are those that do it with Avid and Media 100. Why is this so hard to believe?

 

[PosterBoy]

Like I mentioned above, totally opinion based. Both are great editing platforms. It all comes down to which you prefer.

--PB

 

[MacDoc]

Let's have a little background on Andy
Here's the synopsis from Creative Cow.

"Andy Stinton is a man whose diverse career has found him as Elton John's publicist during the "Empty Sky" era at DJM in England at the start of Elton's career. He has also worked with Fleetwood Mac guitarist extraordinaire, Danny Kirwan. Today, he is an event and show creator and manager whose clients include many top corporations and traveling events. His productions are know for their huge scope and scale. His business insights he shares are always remarkable and given in his no-nonsense approach."

Now getting paid to run big events and keep all the egos of the corporate execs inline at the same time can make for a rather alpha approach at times.
Andy and I did not hit it off perfectly the first time our paths crossed when I called him back at 10 pm at night. He later realized that was actually quite a benefit of dealing with Macdoc. He's become a good client and a good friend.
He also tends to like to "throw the fox in the henhouse" and watch the carnage with typical British amusement.
He was a long time moderator at Magic the mother of all Canadian Mac boards and was renowned for his rather at time "caustic" wit.

Andy's been in a love hate war with FCP for about two years. I suspect it's the "hate" side showing here

Andy didn't really arrive out of the blue he actually recommended ehMac to me a while back and I'd been bugging him to get back involved.
Of course he arrived with his usual flourish
So take into account his eccentric English viewpoint and take the barbs with a grain of salt.
He's really a good guy, knows his stuff ( you should see the studio) and can be a valuable addition to ehMac.
Carry on.....

 

[MacDoc]

Posterboy.....just saying it's all a matter of opinion is not what discussions like these are about. That's just like mum coming in a saying "now now boys get along".
People learn things from passionate discussions and defending their position not from "hail fellow well met" inane generalities.
When people ask for opinions and information they want it backed up with experience and insight.
When I say LCDs are a industry rip off and not ready for primetime I get people irritated ...but I'm prepared to back it up and show why. That's why clients come to me - yes it's my opinon...but it's my "informed" opinion.
Forums like ehMac are excellent to explore debates like FCP versus Media 100 and the debates deserve to be passionate and informed.
Andy has the background to take a shot at FCP and others here have the background to defend it.
Both sides learn and in writing you examine your reasons for your opinion. It's okay to snipe a bit - gives some spice ot the posts. Bottom line Andy's a big time Mac consumer and professional user..it's more than opinion then....it' informed opinion" and it does matter as others with less experience will base some of their decisions on the points made here.

 

[PosterBoy]

True enough, but coming out of the box basically saying that Final Cut sucks and that no one in their right mind would use it is just asking for it really. Most every other thread (like for example, the LCD vs CRT thread a while back) starteed off with someone asking for their opinions, not with someone saying "LCDs are a ripoff! They suck! Anyone with brains uses a CRT!"

personally, I think starting a thread the way this one was started takes away a little bit from the positive atmosphere that we all know and enjoy here.

of course, that is just my opinion, i could be wrong.

--PB

 

[MacDoc]

"Positive" is boring . Spirited is interesting. Look at some of the CubaMark and MacNutt threads - heated and informative and passionate and based on experience not "opinion".
When you invest thousands of dollars in equipment to work with in your chosen profession that in Andy's case affects high profile events such as the Canadian Music Awards and Fortune 500 National Conventions then "nice" doesn't cut it.

Of course he's "asking for it" - that's why he posted it, to see what kind of "informed response" he would get.

 

[PosterBoy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by macdoc:
"Positive" is boring . Spirited is interesting. Look at some of the CubaMark and MacNutt threads - heated and informative and passionate and based on experience not "opinion".
When you invest thousands of dollars in equipment to work with in your chosen profession that in Andy's case affects high profile events such as the Canadian Music Awards and Fortune 500 National Conventions then "nice" doesn't cut it.

Of course he's "asking for it" - that's why he posted it, to see what kind of "informed response" he would get. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True enough. But on the other hand, I like ehMac because you don't see a lot of threads like this, unlike AppleInsider/MacAddict/MacRumors where it seems like every other thread is just b*tching about some damn thing or another.

Why not talk Media 100 up instead of cutting Final Cut down? At least for a first post.

--PB