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The Education Thread

29K views 403 replies 12 participants last post by  FeXL 
#1 ·
In the "Deep Thoughts" thread the issue of education and who pays for what etc., etc. came up. it was interesting, a lot of hyperbole and not much fact/data. But it is indeed a very, very important subject. I thought it warranted its own thread to fully discuss the matter without disrupting the "Deep Thoughts" thread needlessly.

So for those who are game, let's have at 'er.
 
#2 ·
A fine idea for a thread, Steve. I have been a teacher, in one capacity or the next, at various age/grade levels, for 40 years. I still agree with Einstein. Paix, mon ami.
 

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#78 ·
I agree with this completely. Education is about training the mind how to think. Sure some facts and figures have to go along with the the program, but training the mind to think is the most important thing.

Just like a potential athlete is taught all the techniques of a given sport but if they fail to be able to perform them they will not go very far in their respective sport in competition. But that does not mean they do not have something to teach others who just by genetics have greater physical capabilities than they they do. The teachers by their physical failures can still teach those with greater genetic abilities to use their mind to overcome matter. Most likely their physical limitations developed their mental strength to try to still become competitive.
 
#5 ·
Wow. That is 70 years between us ............ and you are still going full-time and I am still teaching part-time. Let's see if we can reach 100 years. Paix, mon ami.
 
#4 ·
Some etymology for the word "education," which appears to have a number of possible roots.

Western educationists have discovered few Latin words through investigation. According to them, the English word 'Education' has been derived from Latin words "educare", "educere", "educatum", "E+duco", "educatus", "educatio".

1) 'Educate' - The term education has been derived from the Latin word 'educare'. The term 'educare' means 'to bring up', 'to rise', and 'to nourish'. The child has to bring up like a plant in the garden by the teacher. His potentialities should be developed with proper care and nourishment.

2) 'Educere' - The term education has been derived from the Latin word 'educere'. The term 'educere' means 'to lead out', 'to draw out' and 'to bring from'. Each and every child has the innate powers. The innate powers of the child should be properly cared, given scope to develop. It should be located and proper education to be developed.

3) 'Educatum' - The term education has been derived from the Latin word 'educatum'. The term 'educatum' means 'act of teaching' or 'training'. Education is something which is imposed from outside. It is external growth through activities and experience. The teacher, through education provides instructions and gives direction to mould his abilities.

4) 'E+duco' - The term education has been derived from the Latin word 'E+duco,. The term 'E' means 'out of' and 'duco' means 'to lead,.The child has inherited potentialities. It is inborn. It should be developed, but how and by whom? It is possible through education and by the active co-operation of the teacher.

5) 'Educatus' - The term education has been derived from the Latin word 'educatus'. The term 'educatus' means 'to bring up', 'rear', 'educate'.

6) 'Educatio' - The term education has been derived from the Latin word 'educatio'. The term 'educatio' means 'a breeding', 'a bringing up', 'a rearing'.
http://eduhutch.blogspot.ca/2014/11/etymological-meaning-of-education.html


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#11 ·
Years and years ago when I was in college, we were taught that when you were at work you should never talk about politics, religion and sex......to this list one could easily add education. It is a topic everyone seems to have opinions on. But, regardless of your opinion, education has always come down to two fundamental issues......Implementing Ryerson's " hidden agenda" and someone today determines what someone else in the future will need to know.
 
#12 ·
Somewhat true, Rp. Still, effective teachers help students learn how to think and not what to think. Still, I agree that it is hard to buck the trend of centralized curricular. Paix, mon ami.
 
#14 ·
I would make that any ideology. The student needs to develop the tools to chose his own vision. Anything else is essentially doing the homework for the student.
 
#22 ·
I already experienced this when I was in university decades ago. Professors announcing that they would fail anyone who mentioned a libertarian theme in their papers. Economics professors who deliberately went off curriculum to flog Marxist economic theory that was not part of the textbook and would not be part of the final exam--leaving students unable to complete parts of the group exam that were on curriculum. The latest examples I have seen are in high school, where students grimly state that they have to stay on political message or they will be penalized.
 
#27 ·
Wow. Now that is taking "academic freedom" to a dangerous extreme. Sadly, I too had profs who did not want to hear any "anti Vietnam war" discussions.

Still, neither you nor I should draw overall conclusions based on these personal experiences.

I recall some of my students shocked when I let them talk about the use of synthetic phonics. I said that even though I advocated different approaches, I felt that if a student could learn to read this way, then it was the proper approach to utilize. I actually liked it when students disagreed with me and my views as to literacy education, rather than just have them try to "spit back" what I was saying, whether they believed in it or not.
 
#26 ·
"School should be a place to explore ideas and have them challenged, instead it appears to have become a place you must conform to the approved ideals of the school. I would be happy to be dead wrong on this bleak view of schools today." Very good point, Wonderings. Personally, I was shocked when some at Berkley, the university that helped to foster the "free speech movement" back in the 60s, were so closed that they prevented a speaker from speaking.

I too hope that you and I are both wrong re this "bleak view" that is trending in some schools. Hard to think that there were 18-21 year olds, the age of most university students today, who stormed the beaches at Normandy ........ and yet now they need "safe places" to calm down when they hear something disturbing. Paix, mon ami.
 
#33 ·

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#34 ·
The notion of a degree is becoming pretty cheap coin these days. Offering free tuition may allow more students to partake, but it will cheapen the value of it even more. If everybody has a degree, then only what they learned will matter--this will become the new criterion for hiring.
 
#35 ·
If everybody has a degree, then only what they learned will matter--this will become the new criterion for hiring.
I'm not convinced. You heard about the massive security breach at Equifax a few days back? The Chief Security Officer at Equifax? Her education consisted of a BA & MFA in musical composition.

Know what this looks like to me? Just another occurrence of hiring the best minority, rather than someone who was actually qualified for the job.

There is nothing to convince me that this type of bogus hiring practice will cease any time in the near future.
 
#39 ·
"Dr. G., you can't be this naive.

Look around you. Read news sources other than those you are comfortable with. Throughout the US the left has almost completely taken over not only primary & secondary schools, but especially, post-secondary. And, not only instructors but students, as well."

Nope.

I do, and I still contend that isolated incidents cannot be generalized beyond a reasonable horizon. I do NOT like the trend that seems to be taking shape in SOME US universities and schools, but this is NOT to be interpreted into my saying that ALL universities and schools are headed in this direction. I am still a centrist, who is willing to see all sides of a situation and belief, before making a decision as to where I stand on a certain situation.

Paix, mon ami.
 
#42 ·
These incidents used to be isolated. We are far beyond that. They are now commonplace.

I do, and I still contend that isolated incidents cannot be generalized beyond a reasonable horizon.
 
#44 ·
It's called a discussion, Freddie. Something that you, with all your edumacation & years of teaching, are mentally unable to conduct.

Talk about past behaviour confirming present...

Like I said, that didn't take long. Contrarians gonna go contrary.
 
#52 ·
Ontario currently has a program designed to get failed high school students into college. They teach high school AT a college, then declare one of the courses to be a combined high school/college course. Voila, they are all in college!
 
#55 ·
Interesting, if true. I know that my son wanted to take a degree program at U of T, but could not get into the program with a 3.2 (out of 4) average. He was able to get into a similar program at Ryerson.
 
#54 ·
"You know as well as I do that it doesn't take much to gain post-secondary acceptance, nor to hang around at a C level." FeXL, this is what I like about the State of Georgia model. You have to maintain an average of B each year that you want to apply for this grant. It is not just given to a student -- each student has to earn it.
 
#56 ·
So what guarantees do we have that this sensible-sounding program will be implemented in Ontario?

Zero...

FeXL, this is what I like about the State of Georgia model. You have to maintain an average of B each year that you want to apply for this grant. It is not just given to a student -- each student has to earn it.
 
#72 ·
This guy is doing some interesting research on the value of education:
Education's Selfish and Social Returns, Bryan Caplan | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty

A major problem is measuring what higher education accomplishes is that the people who get post secondary degrees are not a random sample. A lot of the value derives from a potentially escalating game of "signalling" whereby more resources are being put into being seen as having the right credentials, not in actually having more and more useful skills. A complex area of research.

The slideshow he offers at the link is a bit technical (in language, not math). You have been warned about clicking through.
 
#76 ·
Well, this thread has certainly been educating... XX)
 
#80 ·
What do science classrooms teach these days about gender? This is a hot button topic at the moment. Science obviously has it down pretty simply with biology but that is not what the media is telling us these days.
 
#81 ·
I have heard of a "trans-disabled" student who identifies as paraplegic and clumsily uses a wheelchair to manoeuvre hallways. The person is fully mobile and walks around whenever convenient. However, others are told that they must put up with this nonsense, which is not scientifically justifiable. Instead, they are forced to doff the scientific method and alter their own realities to suit the delusion.
 
#91 ·
Seems like a good place to drop this in....

Toronto man 'angry' after learning his $8,100 master's degree that required no exams or academic work is fake



Erwin Sniedzins doesn't trust traditional universities.

So when the Toronto business management consultant found one offering a master's degree requiring no studying, exams, or academic work — for just $8,100 — Sniedzins thought it was a school sharing his unconventional approach to education.

"I don't necessarily like to pay $30,000 to get a master's when I feel I already have the knowledge," Sniedzins said in an interview with CBC Toronto.

He said the degree issued by Kings Lake University, which he found by searching the internet, is based on his previous life experience and professional accomplishments.

Sniedzins is president and CEO of Mount Knowledge, an educational software company. In his LinkedIn profile, he is described as an "Artificial Intelligence Gamification Patent Inventor, Key Note Speaker, Professor, Author."

* * *

Sniedzins repeatedly told CBC Toronto that he never suspected a degree based on life experience that required no academic work, studying or exams could be fake as it was in line with his approach to education.

(CBC)​
 
#93 ·
I think it's fabulous. I'll just bet he's waiting for a couple cheques from Nigeria, too. :greedy:

You can't fix stupid.

Seems like a good place to drop this in....
 
#100 ·
So.......as this is a thread about education......how would you teach a series on climate change......and while I believe a teacher can help inform students with an opinion......when would you draw the line on implanting your beliefs . Depending on the age of your students, many might hold your beliefs as a truth......and in many areas our views are only our views and not truths. But then again a truth today tends to be a generally accepted belief. And as history has shown, often written by the winners.
 
#103 ·
There is never a time when a teacher is not passing on his or her beliefs to students, even involuntarily. If you try to be objective and non-opinionated, already you are passing on the belief that objectivity is better than opinion. As far as climate change goes, the best one can do is examine as many viewpoints as possible before coming to some kind of conclusion. Most often students will parrot their parents' views, like with religion or politics, and the teacher's role (I believe) is to show that there's a bigger world out there and beliefs with which they may not yet be familiar. That in itself is also a belief, but I think it's a healthy one.
 
#104 ·
Frank, I think this depends on the grade you teach. At lower levels students expect " an answer", at the higher levels there is room for discussion, at the highest levels we call the discussion research. MacFury and others have commented on the political slant curricula can take...climate change being one such topic. In my day it was Louis Riel, today it's climate change, tomorrow who knows.
 
#105 ·
You're right. Was Louis Riel a traitor or a hero? Depends who's asking. I do believe, however, that the power to explore multiple viewpoints should not be limited to only higher grades. It can be simplified, of course, but children in my experience have the capacity to look at issues from more than one perspective. Heck, it might help them to understand each other better when they're older if they start looking at different points of view while they're young.
 
#106 ·
I do not disagree...it is how it is presented. The recent elections might have generated a topic such as " is it better to be a business person or a politician as President or Prime Minister." this could have interesting discussions without political bias ( but the teacher would have to work at it ).
 
#107 ·
An interesting view an an interesting question. It is really difficult to be completely unbiased, and I certainly know many teachers whose views span the entire political spectrum. It would be naive to think all teachers are lefties, for example, even if our jobs are public sector. To be an unbiased mediator of discussions can be done, but it takes great vigilance.
 
#112 ·
Have you seen the process of the new "new math"? I have tried to understand the process, but I am lost.
 
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