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I’d be interested in hearing what is so radical about Bernie’s platform. I know it’s a popular refrain, and he certainly seems like a radical, perhaps in America at least. But at the end of the day, what makes Bernie ‘radical’?

I see nothing in Trumps platform or actions that makes him a “problem solver”, he created more problems than he solved... that isn’t someone else’s fault... yet Bernie a radical. I guess it depends on what your opinion is on on various policies.
What Americans think is radical would be pretty mainstream in Canada. Maybe just a little left of centre liberal, certainly not NDP.
 

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peek-a-boo
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What Americans think is radical would be pretty mainstream in Canada. Maybe just a little left of centre liberal, certainly not NDP.
Exactly. In fact many of those ideas aren’t radical in many other countries either. Sure, there’s quite the list of items that Bernie preaches, but that doesn’t nessecarily mean all of those items will be realized.

I don’t recall anyone calling Trump radical when he announced that there would be beautiful cheap affordable healthcare for everyone, and that he would not only eliminate the deficit but pay down the debt. Because he’s a businessman and he knows how to make deals. Nor spend ridiculous amounts of money to build a wall that most rational people knew would do nothing really, and that Mexico would pay for it!

As I said, it depends on how one defines ‘radical’. I’d say doing many things that break with the status quo would be ‘radical’, interesting that trump supporters never thought trump ‘radical’. So perhaps ‘radical’ is simply ascribed to what one dislikes and/or disagrees with.
 

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I think part of the problem is some of his radical ideas required his other radical ideas to be reality, too.
Radical in that they require more money than the country generates to realize without impoverishing taxpayers. Not radical when you look at them against, say, the level of government spending in China.
 

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peek-a-boo
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If they keep electing establishment types like Trump who hands off all the massive tax breaks to the ultra rich, they’ll never afford what every developed nation in the world besides them has, universal healthcare. I just shake my head every time I see one of those liars go off on how Canadians are coming enmasse to the US for healthcare and we’re all dying in waiting rooms.

Imagine being stupid enough to spout that.
 

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I can imagine. In fact, I think I’ve heard something like that around here before. The problem with the USA and health care is that their capitalist system is so entrenched that they cannot fathom anything with a socialist basis, like Canada or the UK or most of the rest of the developed world. The idea that everyone needs access to reasonable healthcare as a function of being part of a country is baked in to the Canadian system and has been since the days of Tommy Douglas. It took a while, but unless you’re a libertarian, you get it. Everyone benefits. If you believe profit is necessary to run a health care system, then you get a system like America has. Very difficult to reform.
 

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peek-a-boo
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I’m sure we’ll hear it again. And again. As if it makes it more true. Or maybe that they “know some experts personally”.

Bernie would have been a far better president than trump could hope to be. The democrats really screwed that one up.
 

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Yep, in Canada you get mediocre care at a slow pace of delivery at an ever increasing price, taking up an ever increasing percentage of government spending--but its benefits are all spread equally.

The U.S system is failing not because it is for profit, but because the government abets a system in which for-profit providers do not compete, and in which insurance provides are indifferent to price.

I can imagine. In fact, I think I’ve heard something like that around here before. The problem with the USA and health care is that their capitalist system is so entrenched that they cannot fathom anything with a socialist basis, like Canada or the UK or most of the rest of the developed world. The idea that everyone needs access to reasonable healthcare as a function of being part of a country is baked in to the Canadian system and has been since the days of Tommy Douglas. It took a while, but unless you’re a libertarian, you get it. Everyone benefits. If you believe profit is necessary to run a health care system, then you get a system like America has. Very difficult to reform.
 

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Yep, in Canada you get mediocre care at a slow pace of delivery at an ever increasing price, taking up an ever increasing percentage of government spending--but its benefits are all spread equally.

The U.S system is failing not because it is for profit, but because the government abets a system in which for-profit providers do not compete, and in which insurance provides are indifferent to price.
I don’t know which doctors you’ve been going to, but I get excellent health care for a reasonable price and so does my family and everyone I know. You’re talking out of your ass again, Macfury.
 

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How much do you pay, Freddie?

I don’t know which doctors you’ve been going to, but I get excellent health care for a reasonable price and so does my family and everyone I know. You’re talking out of your ass again, Macfury.
 

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How much do you pay, Freddie?
Same as you, mf. It’s part of my taxes. I also have an excellent benefit plan with my employer, so that part can vary from person to person. But basic health care? Covered for every citizen in Canada regardless how much you make.
 

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So the answer is that you don't know how much you pay.

Same as you, mf. It’s part of my taxes. I also have an excellent benefit plan with my employer, so that part can vary from person to person. But basic health care? Covered for every citizen in Canada regardless how much you make.
 

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peek-a-boo
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see? you can set your watch to it. The troll is on a roll again.

Notice how it pivoted fast from the nonsense it spewed about Canadian healthcare. Ted Cruz would be proud. Now it's badgering you about how much you pay. Waste of time, don't even bother engaging this idiot.

Boy, our private long term care homes were a hit here eh? Sooo many people going bankrupt from having a heart attack too, oh wait...

The stupidity is just breathtaking.
 

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What Americans think is radical would be pretty mainstream in Canada. Maybe just a little left of centre liberal, certainly not NDP.
I don’t know which doctors you’ve been going to, but I get excellent health care for a reasonable price and so does my family and everyone I know. You’re talking out of your ass again, Macfury.
Are you talking a family doctor or a hospital? I know so many people who cannot get a family doctor as there are not enough of them so they are left going to walk in clinics when needed. Maybe this is just an Ontario thing, but the health care system is not all rosy here with the shortage of doctors. Hospitals are hit and miss as well and can have extreme wait times unless you are critical. Some people can spend 8 hours or more in a waiting room hoping to be seen by a nurse or doctor.
 

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peek-a-boo
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Are you talking a family doctor or a hospital? I know so many people who cannot get a family doctor as there are not enough of them so they are left going to walk in clinics when needed. Maybe this is just an Ontario thing, but the health care system is not all rosy here with the shortage of doctors. Hospitals are hit and miss as well and can have extreme wait times unless you are critical. Some people can spend 8 hours or more in a waiting room hoping to be seen by a nurse or doctor.
I think it's important not to confuse the issue here. This is a comparison to the for profit system in America. Where not only can you not get a doctor in many places but many people cannot afford one. And I have personally waited in their hospitals more than once and they also have 8 hour (and more) wait times. Its just waaaaaaaaay more expensive. This isn't about whether or not our system needs improvement. It sure does!

I say this because what gets lost here, is there can be no doubt that our health system needs improvement. Every country's system does, regardless of what it is or what one might think of it. Every developed nation has universal healthcare except the US, and the majority of their populations (including here) love having it and want it not only protected but improved.

What macfury shovelled out is the same nonsense right wing crap that cannot be backed up, and this whole thing just goes nowhere. Its better to focus on how to improve our current system rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater and try and imitate America's failure.
 

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peek-a-boo
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Here's something these libertarian nitwits won't tell you:

All you'll get is more trolling and whimpering about time magazine being a socialist rag. But it's pretty well known that US healthcare costs are way higher per person than here in Canada. Imagine if we tossed the right leaning liars from office who use lines like "privatizing will fix all!" like it it did for long term care here in Ontario... and guess who heavily invested in that, Mike Harris!! big surprise. Oh, and the current favourite, 'we'll go line by line to find savings!!!'. Another Ford numbskull passed off as a solution.
 

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see? you can set your watch to it. The troll is on a roll again.

Notice how it pivoted fast from the nonsense it spewed about Canadian healthcare. Ted Cruz would be proud. Now it's badgering you about how much you pay. Waste of time, don't even bother engaging this idiot.

Boy, our private long term care homes were a hit here eh? Sooo many people going bankrupt from having a heart attack too, oh wait...

The stupidity is just breathtaking.
No kidding. It’s so predictable:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Are you talking a family doctor or a hospital? I know so many people who cannot get a family doctor as there are not enough of them so they are left going to walk in clinics when needed. Maybe this is just an Ontario thing, but the health care system is not all rosy here with the shortage of doctors. Hospitals are hit and miss as well and can have extreme wait times unless you are critical. Some people can spend 8 hours or more in a waiting room hoping to be seen by a nurse or doctor.
That has not been my experience, but I understand what you’re saying. I can also say when someone leaves a hospital in Canada, they are but saddled with bills for even basic care that would bankrupt them unless they can afford private health insurance. You seem to be deliberately downplaying the positive aspects of the Canadian healthcare system.
 

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peek-a-boo
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there has been a problem with getting a GP here in Ontario, particularly in GTA area. The population density isn't helping, but provincial government after provincial government haven't really addressed this. I think it got better somewhat in the 2000s but never really addressed. Privatization will solve nothing and only drive costs up.
 

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Are you talking a family doctor or a hospital? I know so many people who cannot get a family doctor as there are not enough of them so they are left going to walk in clinics when needed. Maybe this is just an Ontario thing, but the health care system is not all rosy here with the shortage of doctors. Hospitals are hit and miss as well and can have extreme wait times unless you are critical. Some people can spend 8 hours or more in a waiting room hoping to be seen by a nurse or doctor.
The "secret" to Canadian public healthcare is to attenuate wait and treatment times wherever possible to reduce costs to the government. It's health care rationing. So you get a mix of good and terrible service depending on where you fall on the government assessment scale.

I think the best example would be the availability of MRI scans. Waiting up to 10 months is not abnormal in Ontario. If you were to go across the border to Buffalo MRI, you could make an appointment in two days and leave with your MRI scan. Your doctor receives a report on the scan within 48 hours. You could buy that scan for US$500. There's your tradeoff.

Canadians in general have no idea what their health care costs them. In Ontario, more than 41 per cent of the province's budget is needed to maintain health care at these levels and the number continues to rise. We have no idea what individual services are costing, and no easy method for price discovery.

The provincial governments allow the medical associations to "set" the number of graduates that will be delivered into the system. That keeps supply low and demand always higher than the universities deliver. That's OK with the province who pays the doctors for the services they render. Note that if individual doctors start working longer hours, the Ministry of Health will put a cap on hours they can work. It's all part of attenuating services.

But yeah, health care is the same for everyone, except for the people with enough money to seek better care outside the border.
 
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