[wonderings]

eMacMan believes Antifa is pro-fascism. Shows you which basket you’re putting all your eggs in.

I am not sure how anyone sees Antifa as anything but a fascist group that is anti free speech and violently opposes anyone who disagrees with them under the guise that they are fighting "nazi's" so anything is justified. They seem to be the only group that had regular book burnings and violent attempts at stopping free speech on university campuses rather then engage in public debate which was regularly called for yet few if any were willing to do more then make loud noises, cover their faces and attack people. I do not care what side of the political fence you stand, I do not understand how anyone can support Antifa or their actions.

 

[groovetube]

I am not sure how anyone sees Antifa as anything but a fascist group that is anti free speech and violently opposes anyone who disagrees with them under the guise that they are fighting "nazi's" so anything is justified. They seem to be the only group that had regular book burnings and violent attempts at stopping free speech on university campuses rather then engage in public debate which was regularly called for yet few if any were willing to do more then make loud noises, cover their faces and attack people. I do not care what side of the political fence you stand, I do not understand how anyone can support Antifa or their actions.

Another post on this group called Antifa. So, who, exactly, is Antifa? Who is their leadership, is there an organized network across the country? And what specific actions by this 'group', is facist?

I tried to ask macfury and all he could do was deflect and be a jerk, because I have to assume obviously, he doesn't know. I am not aware of any groups called 'Antifa' So I have no idea why he thought to ask me. So that's why Im asking.

I don't know, so perhaps before we can make all these statements, we first need to know who, Antifa actually is. Trump supporters seem to really know, yet, never say what it actually is.

 

[wonderings]

Another post on this group called Antifa. So, who, exactly, is Antifa? Who is their leadership, is there an organized network across the country? And what specific actions by this 'group', is facist?

I tried to ask macfury and all he could do was deflect and be a jerk, because I have to assume obviously, he doesn't know. I am not aware of any groups called 'Antifa' So I have no idea why he thought to ask me. So that's why Im asking.

I don't know, so perhaps before we can make all these statements, we first need to know who, Antifa actually is. Trump supporters seem to really know, yet, never say what it actually is.

I think Wikipedia best describes it:

Antifa (/ænˈtiːfə, ˈænti(ˈ)fɑː/) is a left-wing anti-fascist and anti-racist political movement in the United States. It is highly decentralized and comprises an array of autonomous groups that aim to achieve their objectives through the use of both nonviolent and violent direct action rather than through policy reform.[1][2][3] Much of antifa political activism is nonviolent, involving poster and flyer campaigns, mutual aid, delivering speeches, marching in protest, and community organizing.[4][5][6] They also engage in protest tactics, seeking to combat fascists and racists such as neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other far-right extremists, and differing from other leftist opposition movements by their willingness to directly confront far-right activists, and in some cases law enforcement.[2] This may involve digital activism, doxing, harassment, physical violence, and property damage against those whom they identify as belonging to the far right.

I bolded the last sentence as that is the scary part. Anyone they deem to belong to what they disagree with justifies them.

 

[polywog]

Actually I have a pulse oximeter. Lying in bed breathing normally at the end of 2 minutes my blood Oxygen level is 96 and pulse rate 55. Wearing a properly fitted 2 layer mask, again for two minutes, again normal breathing, and it drops to 89 with a pulse rate of 65. Keep in mind that this is totally relaxed, zero stress on the body and that any blood oxygen level below 90 is considered the danger zone. The slightly elevated pulse is a good indicator that CO2 levels are elevated as well.

So do I, so I figured hey neat, I'll do the same. 3 samples of each. Because taking one measurement is absolutely shoddy science. Of course, so is taking several samples from just one person and forming any sort of conclusion from it.

Wouldn't you know it, no significant change. The average with mask on was actually 99, without 98. Given the error rate for consumer pulse oximeters that's not unexpected. Nor are your results. Next up I'll try it with two masks.

How can you have zero stress with a mask on, when masks seem to be the cause of hundreds of horrendous conditions, according to your 15 minute visit to a local coffee shop? That would stress me out.

 

[Freddie_Biff]

I think Wikipedia best describes it:

Antifa (/ænˈtiːfə, ˈænti(ˈ)fɑː/) is a left-wing anti-fascist and anti-racist political movement in the United States. It is highly decentralized and comprises an array of autonomous groups that aim to achieve their objectives through the use of both nonviolent and violent direct action rather than through policy reform.[1][2][3] Much of antifa political activism is nonviolent, involving poster and flyer campaigns, mutual aid, delivering speeches, marching in protest, and community organizing.[4][5][6] They also engage in protest tactics, seeking to combat fascists and racists such as neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other far-right extremists, and differing from other leftist opposition movements by their willingness to directly confront far-right activists, and in some cases law enforcement.[2] This may involve digital activism, doxing, harassment, physical violence, and property damage against those whom they identify as belonging to the far right.

I bolded the last sentence as that is the scary part. Anyone they deem to belong to what they disagree with justifies them.

How is this any worse than the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers and numerous other right wing groups? At least Antifa is protesting fascism, not embracing it.

 

[Freddie_Biff]

So do I, so I figured hey neat, I'll do the same. 3 samples of each. Because taking one measurement is absolutely shoddy science. Of course, so is taking several samples from just one person and forming any sort of conclusion from it.

Wouldn't you know it, no significant change. The average with mask on was actually 99, without 98. Given the error rate for consumer pulse oximeters that's not unexpected. Nor are your results. Next up I'll try it with two masks.

How can you have zero stress with a mask on, when masks seem to be the cause of hundreds of horrendous conditions, according to your 15 minute visit to a local coffee shop? That would stress me out.

There you go.

 

[wonderings]

How is this any worse than the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers and numerous other right wing groups? At least Antifa is protesting fascism, not embracing it.

I have never said they were better, and it does not justify because someone else is doing something wrong. That really is the childhood reaction these groups and people who support one side or the other use, "they did it first!".

Is Antifa really protesting fascism? They seem to be acting in a very fascist way which in my mind is promoting it. What does a group who tries to silence anyone who disagrees with them, burn books, riot and use acts of violence to silence opposition which includes fire bombs, trying to shut down speaking events on university campuses and more sound like to you? This seems like the actions of a fascist group, quelling all opposing thought. I would say the same to any group that does this, be it the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers and any other group. I don't think any of these groups should be held up as heroes because they are not.

 

[Macfury]

Dr. Groovetube received his medical degree from Global Television, with additional studies at the University of Now! Magazine.

Sounds like someone has had a little too much kool-aid himself you know wad I mean you know wad I mean?

maybe you should head down to all the hospitals and warn all the doctors and nurses who wear them 12 hours a day they might be in grave danger! Because your knockoff little pulse meter in bed is a credible medical device!

Are you sure you put it on your finger???

 

[eMacMan]

So do I, so I figured hey neat, I'll do the same. 3 samples of each. Because taking one measurement is absolutely shoddy science. Of course, so is taking several samples from just one person and forming any sort of conclusion from it.

Wouldn't you know it, no significant change. The average with mask on was actually 99, without 98. Given the error rate for consumer pulse oximeters that's not unexpected. Nor are your results. Next up I'll try it with two masks.

How can you have zero stress with a mask on, when masks seem to be the cause of hundreds of horrendous conditions, according to your 15 minute visit to a local coffee shop? That would stress me out.

I too repeated 3 times. There was a consistent 5-7% difference. I used two layers of thin cotton flannel, wrapped in such a manner as to prevent leakage around the sides and the nose. I concentrated on nasal breathing, 2 seconds in and 2 seconds out with just a slight pause between. Reading was taken at the end of two minutes.

I should note that I could control outcome with breathing styles. Taking deep inhales through the nose and longer complete exhales via the mouth would give me 99-100% oxygen readings without the mask and around 95-98% with. In both cases it raised my pulse rate slightly. However it is almost impossible to maintain that style of breathing for an extended period of time.

I think shallow breathing is the norm for most mask wearers. Certainly when shopping I hardly ever observe any mask movement and that would clearly indicate shallow breathing. Makes sense as that is how you breath when you are afraid, and I am sure many wear masks because they are afraid. Anyways shallow breathing results were more dramatic. 92-95% no mask, below normal range but still OK. And 83-87% masked, clearly outside the safe range.

Point is the important numbers are how wearing a mask impacts you, not some super healthy guy on CTV, and the experiment is quite easy and inexpensive to perform. I'm getting older, my lung function is good but not perfect and wearing a properly sealing mask does negatively impact my blood oxygen levels with normal breathing. My tests were as objective as I could make them, and my conclusion is that it would not be safe for me to wear a mask for any extended period of time.

Yes I could have worn a mask that bled air in every direction and most people do, but of course such masks offer zero protection. They do however clearly label you as being willing to submit to submit to tyranny.

 

[Macfury]

Actually I have a pulse oximeter. Lying in bed breathing normally at the end of 2 minutes my blood Oxygen level is 96 and pulse rate 55. Wearing a properly fitted 2 layer mask, again for two minutes, again normal breathing, and it drops to 89 with a pulse rate of 65. Keep in mind that this is totally relaxed, zero stress on the body and that any blood oxygen level below 90 is considered the danger zone. The slightly elevated pulse is a good indicator that CO2 levels are elevated as well.

It does not take a rocket scientist to understand that fresh air contains less that 500ppm CO2, whereas the breath we exhale is at 50,000ppm. That information is readily available from a multitude of sources. If you rebreath just 10% of the previous breath that means instead of inhaling air that is 500ppmCO2, you are inhaling air that is 5000ppm CO2. I grant that is way beyond Freddie Math skills but true regardless.

Freddie's degree at the Google School of Medicine selects only the top "approved" links considered "safe" by the Google gods. If the mask prevents any particle from entering or leaving the lungs it decreases air exchange as it resists air flow. That does not change the oxygen/CO2 balance of the air entering the lungs, but eventually changes the levels of oxygen saturation of the blood as exhalation is resisted. The question is not whether this occurs at all, but the degree to which it occurs.

 

[polywog]

I should note that I could control outcome with breathing styles. Taking deep inhales through the nose and longer complete exhales via the mouth would give me 99-100% oxygen readings without the mask and around 95-98% with. In both cases it raised my pulse rate slightly. However it is almost impossible to maintain that style of breathing for an extended period of time.

I think shallow breathing is the norm for most mask wearers. Certainly when shopping I hardly ever observe any mask movement and that would clearly indicate shallow breathing. Makes sense as that is how you breath when you are afraid, and I am sure many wear masks because they are afraid. Anyways shallow breathing results were more dramatic. 92-95% no mask, below normal range but still OK. And 83-87% masked, clearly outside the safe range.

I for one hope they've managed to get surgery times down below two minutes, based on that. Or we'll have a ton of dead surgeons. Right? Clearly they should all be right in the ICU! Right? I'm starting to worry that my wife is in fact undead, given she's been wearing masks to work since the beginning, for hours on end.

If we're taking anecdotes as evidence, there's always this from Dr. Lewis:

“I had been wearing a mask in clinic all day and one of my Twitter critics had requested I measure my oxygen level after 8 hours of use,” said Lewis. “I put it on and, of course, there was no change in my [oxygen] saturation. Then I thought: how many masks would it take to drop my sat? And before I knew it I was wearing the entire box (probably about 30),” he added.

Despite wearing not just one mask, but an entire box, Lewis’ oxygen saturation remained high and well within the normal range.

“I wanted to highlight the absurdity of the hypoxia argument from wearing PPE. Essentially since we learned about antiseptic procedures and germ theory from Ignaz Semmelweis and Joseph Lister we’ve been using coverings of one sort or another to avoid transmitting infection as healthcare workers,” said Lewis.

 

[Freddie_Biff]

I too repeated 3 times. There was a consistent 5-7% difference. I used two layers of thin cotton flannel, wrapped in such a manner as to prevent leakage around the sides and the nose. I concentrated on nasal breathing, 2 seconds in and 2 seconds out with just a slight pause between. Reading was taken at the end of two minutes.

I should note that I could control outcome with breathing styles. Taking deep inhales through the nose and longer complete exhales via the mouth would give me 99-100% oxygen readings without the mask and around 95-98% with. In both cases it raised my pulse rate slightly. However it is almost impossible to maintain that style of breathing for an extended period of time.

I think shallow breathing is the norm for most mask wearers. Certainly when shopping I hardly ever observe any mask movement and that would clearly indicate shallow breathing. Makes sense as that is how you breath when you are afraid, and I am sure many wear masks because they are afraid. Anyways shallow breathing results were more dramatic. 92-95% no mask, below normal range but still OK. And 83-87% masked, clearly outside the safe range.

Point is the important numbers are how wearing a mask impacts you, not some super healthy guy on CTV, and the experiment is quite easy and inexpensive to perform. I'm getting older, my lung function is good but not perfect and wearing a properly sealing mask does negatively impact my blood oxygen levels with normal breathing. My tests were as objective as I could make them, and my conclusion is that it would not be safe for me to wear a mask for any extended period of time.

Yes I could have worn a mask that bled air in every direction and most people do, but of course such masks offer zero protection. They do however clearly label you as being willing to submit to submit to tyranny.

I can understand your frustration. My job requires me to mask up unless I can maintain six feet of distance between me and the nearest student at the front of the row, so you can be sure I arrange the desks so I have six feet of distance and mask up when I have to. I would not want to wear a mask all the time either. They’re a necessary evil, and I can assure you when I sneeze or anyone else does, the aerosols are going to be severely curtailed by wearing a mask. Without a mask, a sneeze can travel 8 m—almost the entire width of my room.

 

[groovetube]

I think Wikipedia best describes it:

Antifa (/ænˈtiːfə, ˈænti(ˈ)fɑː/) is a left-wing anti-fascist and anti-racist political movement in the United States. It is highly decentralized and comprises an array of autonomous groups that aim to achieve their objectives through the use of both nonviolent and violent direct action rather than through policy reform.[1][2][3] Much of antifa political activism is nonviolent, involving poster and flyer campaigns, mutual aid, delivering speeches, marching in protest, and community organizing.[4][5][6] They also engage in protest tactics, seeking to combat fascists and racists such as neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other far-right extremists, and differing from other leftist opposition movements by their willingness to directly confront far-right activists, and in some cases law enforcement.[2] This may involve digital activism, doxing, harassment, physical violence, and property damage against those whom they identify as belonging to the far right.

I bolded the last sentence as that is the scary part. Anyone they deem to belong to what they disagree with justifies them.

Well, I guess that's much better than I got from macfury, who seems to be still, in some kind of hissy fit. But a wikipedia link isn't, what the question was. I'm aware of what antifa is believed to be, what's it's basic definition might be, conceptually, and that there have been protestors who may have said they're 'antifa'. But I asked, who specifically is antifa? What are the groups, who are the leaders? I'll tell you why I originally asked the question in the first place before the hissy fit began.

Let's swing back to why I originally asked who they were. (not what they are believed to be...) It was alleged, that when the violent protestors took over the capitol building on Jan. 6, that there were antifa agitators in the crowd, with some kind of vague implication that the violence wasn't real Trump supporters, they were antifa agitators dressed up as Trump supporters. Even Trump himself has implied this. certainly legions of the right wing 'entertainment news' sites, his supporters and politicians have done so since then, with little to no evidence. So then, what and who exactly, is antifa that these allegations have any merit? Surely those making the charge must know to make these allegations! I haven't seen a shred of any evidence of this, beyond a handful of just laughable stretches common in the far right 'entertainment' infowars type sources. There was the same lack of evidence in the charges of widespread voter fraud incidentally, so this is hardly a surprise. Any questions as to who exactly is antifa and why anyone would think those violent protestors on Jan. 6 were actually antifa dressed up as trump supporters, is just baseless.

But now we're going further, completely forgetting about the reason why this came up here (and subsequently led of some childish thing macfury is known for...) and we're acting as though, antifa, is the violent extremists we need to be concerned about, and questions regarding this whole thing is merely met with implications that you must support them if you dare ask deeper questions. Make no mistake, the vast majority of who you might consider 'left wing protestors', or BLM, etc., are peaceful protestors who are appalled at the violent ones, who seem to be getting most of the attention. Right wing media has been amping the whole BLM = antifa numbskullery for quite some time now, it sure pumps the fleecing of donations that's for sure, witness the hundreds of millions brought in because of the widespread voter fraud allegations clearly made by Trump, which these violent protestors acted upon that day on Jan.6! Even though Trump's own lawyers themselves, have answered the judges when asked if they were there to prove voter fraud in court, that they are not alleging voter fraud. Because in a court room, its not like a forum like here where you can just mouth off on just horsesh!t and there are few consequences, and you can do what macfury does if questioned, act like a 5 year old who was denied another piece cake. But it didn't matter that there isn't any evidence of widespread voter fraud that would have swung the election.
( In Court, Trump's Lawyers Aren't Claiming 'Massive' Fraud )

In a recent Pennsylvania federal case, Giuliani alleged “widespread, nationwide voter fraud” in his opening remarks. But under questioning from the judge, he retreated. “This is not a fraud case,” Giuliani later admitted. In the same case, Trump lawyer Linda Kearns said explicitly that she is “not proceeding” on allegations of fraud.

In a separate state case in Montgomery County, Pa., a judge asked Trump lawyer Jonathan S. Goldstein whether he was alleging fraud. “Your honor, accusing people of fraud is a pretty big step,” Goldstein said. “And it is rare that I call somebody a liar, and I am not calling the Board of the [Democratic National Committee] or anybody else involved in this a liar. Everybody is coming to this with good faith.” The judge pressed Goldstein to answer the specific question: “Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?” To which Goldstein replied: “To my knowledge at present, no.”

Trump, and other right wing organizations has been able to just fleece the unwitting supporters of their money and now, those trump supporters who really believed they were acting on what they were told they should do, may be hung out to dry.

Oh, but they were antifa! First there needs to be a clear discussion on what and who, antifa specifically is before anyone can begin to take those allegations with any level of credibility at all.

As far as what antifa is supposed to be, or groups or collections of individuals who may have said they were antifa and committed acts of violence, as someone who likely leans slightly left of centre,I have no problem denouncing any and all violence by any of those people without reservation. And, despite the lies to the contrary, (which may be difficult to accept if you're a true Trump supporter...) US prez Biden has on multiple occasions clearly denounced the violence. As detailed here in this Reuters article (cue left wing rag blah blah) Fact check: Joe Biden has condemned Antifa, violent protests

Now Im not going to pretend that all Trump supporters are violent insurrectionists like the ones on Jan. 6. In fact I know full well they aren't.

But unlike Biden who has denounced the violence clearly, I don't think Mr. 'stand down and stand by', 'go home, we love you', can say the same thing. What needs to happen before any of this crap can even have a chance at getting better, is for the lies to stop, and conversations need to happen. The sh!t Im seeing all over Facebook, and even here with a couple who offer nothing but hissy fits, Im not feeling particularly optimistic at the moment.

 

[Freddie_Biff]

Freddie's degree at the Google School of Medicine selects only the top "approved" links considered "safe" by the Google gods. If the mask prevents any particle from entering or leaving the lungs it decreases air exchange as it resists air flow. That does not change the oxygen/CO2 balance of the air entering the lungs, but eventually changes the levels of oxygen saturation of the blood as exhalation is resisted. The question is not whether this occurs at all, but the degree to which it occurs.

Perhaps you should explain that to the medical personnel who have been wearing masks for years. I’m sure they’d appreciate the information coming from an expert such as yourself.

 

[groovetube]

Perhaps you should explain that to the medical personnel who have been wearing masks for years. I’m sure they’d appreciate the information coming from an expert such as yourself.

it's literally too stupid to even address. If you read it in Homer Simpson's voice it's at least somewhat funny.

 

[Freddie_Biff]

it's literally too stupid to even address. If you read it in Homer Simpson's voice it's at least somewhat funny.

D’oh!

 

[wonderings]

Well, I guess that's much better than I got from macfury, who seems to be still, in some kind of hissy fit. But a wikipedia link isn't, what the question was. I'm aware of what antifa is believed to be, what's it's basic definition might be, conceptually, and that there have been protestors who may have said they're 'antifa'. But I asked, who specifically is antifa? What are the groups, who are the leaders? I'll tell you why I originally asked the question in the first place before the hissy fit began.

Let's swing back to why I originally asked who they were. (not what they are believed to be...) It was alleged, that when the violent protestors took over the capitol building on Jan. 6, that there were antifa agitators in the crowd, with some kind of vague implication that the violence wasn't real Trump supporters, they were antifa agitators dressed up as Trump supporters. Even Trump himself has implied this. certainly legions of the right wing 'entertainment news' sites, his supporters and politicians have done so since then, with little to no evidence. So then, what and who exactly, is antifa that these allegations have any merit? Surely those making the charge must know to make these allegations! I haven't seen a shred of any evidence of this, beyond a handful of just laughable stretches common in the far right 'entertainment' infowars type sources. There was the same lack of evidence in the charges of widespread voter fraud incidentally, so this is hardly a surprise. Any questions as to who exactly is antifa and why anyone would think those violent protestors on Jan. 6 were actually antifa dressed up as trump supporters, is just baseless.

But now we're going further, completely forgetting about the reason why this came up here (and subsequently led of some childish thing macfury is known for...) and we're acting as though, antifa, is the violent extremists we need to be concerned about, and questions regarding this whole thing is merely met with implications that you must support them if you dare ask deeper questions. Make no mistake, the vast majority of who you might consider 'left wing protestors', or BLM, etc., are peaceful protestors who are appalled at the violent ones, who seem to be getting most of the attention. Right wing media has been amping the whole BLM = antifa numbskullery for quite some time now, it sure pumps the fleecing of donations that's for sure, witness the hundreds of millions brought in because of the widespread voter fraud allegations clearly made by Trump, which these violent protestors acted upon that day on Jan.6! Even though Trump's own lawyers themselves, have answered the judges when asked if they were there to prove voter fraud in court, that they are not alleging voter fraud. Because in a court room, its not like a forum like here where you can just mouth off on just horsesh!t and there are few consequences, and you can do what macfury does if questioned, act like a 5 year old who was denied another piece cake. But it didn't matter that there isn't any evidence of widespread voter fraud that would have swung the election.
( In Court, Trump's Lawyers Aren't Claiming 'Massive' Fraud )


Trump, and other right wing organizations has been able to just fleece the unwitting supporters of their money and now, those trump supporters who really believed they were acting on what they were told they should do, may be hung out to dry.

Oh, but they were antifa! First there needs to be a clear discussion on what and who, antifa specifically is before anyone can begin to take those allegations with any level of credibility at all.

As far as what antifa is supposed to be, or groups or collections of individuals who may have said they were antifa and committed acts of violence, as someone who likely leans slightly left of centre,I have no problem denouncing any and all violence by any of those people without reservation. And, despite the lies to the contrary, (which may be difficult to accept if you're a true Trump supporter...) US prez Biden has on multiple occasions clearly denounced the violence. As detailed here in this Reuters article (cue left wing rag blah blah) Fact check: Joe Biden has condemned Antifa, violent protests

Now Im not going to pretend that all Trump supporters are violent insurrectionists like the ones on Jan. 6. In fact I know full well they aren't.

But unlike Biden who has denounced the violence clearly, I don't think Mr. 'stand down and stand by', 'go home, we love you', can say the same thing. What needs to happen before any of this crap can even have a chance at getting better, is for the lies to stop, and conversations need to happen. The sh!t Im seeing all over Facebook, and even here with a couple who offer nothing but hissy fits, Im not feeling particularly optimistic at the moment.

I do believe the wikipedia answered some of your questions, and specifically the who they are. They are individual groups or cells that act independently yet for the same causes/ideals. I would say this is probably a smart approach in some ways as if things get really bad those who get in trouble are where it ends as they have no links to others acting under the name "Antifa".

I don't know anything about Antifa being at the riots at the Capital building, honestly I don't care who was there under what name, they should all be locked up. I am probably missing some of the argument here though on antifa in that riot and why it matters. For me it does not. I would not be surprised though if there were people who just take advantage of these situations and may riot under Antifa and do the same for BLM or any other organization. I have no issues with protesting, I think it is an important right to stand up to our governments, I am opposed to the violence and vandalism that people from all sides of the table are guilty of.

 

[groovetube]

I do believe the wikipedia answered some of your questions, and specifically the who they are. They are individual groups or cells that act independently yet for the same causes/ideals. I would say this is probably a smart approach in some ways as if things get really bad those who get in trouble are where it ends as they have no links to others acting under the name "Antifa".

Well, not really, but that's ok. I don't think we need to belabour this, because...

I don't know anything about Antifa being at the riots at the Capital building, honestly I don't care who was there under what name, they should all be locked up. I am probably missing some of the argument here though on antifa in that riot and why it matters. For me it does not. I would not be surprised though if there were people who just take advantage of these situations and may riot under Antifa and do the same for BLM or any other organization. I have no issues with protesting, I think it is an important right to stand up to our governments, I am opposed to the violence and vandalism that people from all sides of the table are guilty of.

I'm in agreement with this.

 

[Macfury]

I don't know anything about Antifa being at the riots at the Capital building, honestly I don't care who was there under what name, they should all be locked up. I am probably missing some of the argument here though on antifa in that riot and why it matters. For me it does not. I would not be surprised though if there were people who just take advantage of these situations and may riot under Antifa and do the same for BLM or any other organization.

Violent protesters like finding opportunities to beat people up, light fires, and break glass. To a large extent, they're used as shock troops by people who who manipulate them for their own political ends. You can find plenty of repeat participants under various banners at events across the US.

 

[Macfury]

I do believe the wikipedia answered some of your questions, and specifically the who they are. They are individual groups or cells that act independently yet for the same causes/ideals. I would say this is probably a smart approach in some ways as if things get really bad those who get in trouble are where it ends as they have no links to others acting under the name "Antifa".

It's an old playbook, just like the "anarchists" of history who were actually organized.