[wonderings]

I work at a commercial printing shop. The 3 big programs we use are photoshop, illustrator and Quark 5 right now. I have heard alot of people talk about switching over to indesign. Has anyone here in the graphics design and pre press industry gone completely over to indesign? and how close are there functions? I mean does indesign do what Quark can do and more? andy suggestions or comments regarding Quark and Indesign would be great.

 

[Mississauga]

For a decent comparison of the two, have a look at THIS report.

I have been running InDesign exclusively in my small print business for almost a year and find going back to QX to be clunky and unfriendly. In my opinion, InDesign has a superior range of output options and runs circles around QX when producing PDF files. The other advantage is the familiar UI with apps like Photoshop and Illustrator.

 

[Betty Fooz]

i use indesign, mostly because i am comfortable with adobes layout. i have used quark5 and hated it, but this was because i can't stand os9. the new quark6 is out and i have read lots of good reviews on it, but if you are already using adobe programs (ie photoshop and illustrator) i think indesign is for you

 

[JAMG]

I manage the Prepress dept for a GTA print shop...

I don't know if our customer base is a true indication or not, but I have seen no great move to either Quark 5 or Indesign... Most are sitting tight with an installed Quark 4.11 workflow and early G4s at best...

Economic uncertainty and rapid changes have made many shy about upgrading... Wrong approach I think...

The print industry is moving increasingly to PDF workflows so which App you use is irrelevant as long as you can create a good PDF.

In fact I have too many clients using MS Publisher.... ick...

 

[Gerbill]

The print industry is moving increasingly to PDF workflows so which App you use is irrelevant as long as you can create a good PDF.

In fact I have too many clients using MS Publisher.... ick...

Well, I've heard that Quark doesn't work very smoothly with Acrobat, while InDesign doesn't even require Acrobat to make a good PDF.

I use InDesign - moved there from PageMaker. I've seldom used Quark, and wasn't impressed on the occasions when I did encounter it.

Actually, I was faced with the necessity of using Publisher to convert a poster to HTML the other day. I was surprised and impressed - it was quick and easy. Sorry to say it, but it seems to be a pretty decent little program, although not really suitable for professional work (of course, you could say the same about Windows PCs in general).

Cheers :-> Bill

 

[avalonian]

I've been using QXP since v.3
I have not used Indesign much.
I am really used to all my keyboard shortcuts, but am still attracted by some of the features of indesign (the Blatner article Mississauga linked to is informative on the topic).

Design issues aside, most of your client base will probably be sending Quark or pdf files. I am assuming QXP 6 can downsave to 5. Getting a copy of Indesign can't hurt; download a demo if there is an i$$ue.

This forum might be interested to know that the aggressivity of Adobe's marketing machine has convinced the Ontario College of Art & Design to adopt InDesign as of this summer, when they switched to an X environment. This may mean more grads familiar with the program, but most of the instructors are Quark users. It seems to me odd to go against industry standards in an educational environment because of licensing costs and the possibility of one-stop-shopping at Adobe, but that's how things shake down sometimes.

 

[JAMG]

Sadly, Quark {The Company} seems ntent on commiting suicide... Both QX5 and QX6 "feel" like they have been rushed to market by a company that has rested on past laurels too long....

6 seems to lack anything exciting, keeping with the concept of "Build art in Illustrator /Photoshop and import into Quark"... Same as Qx4.11...

Qx5 is stable enough but offers little to move from 4.11.
Indesign offers a wealth of new capabilities providing Printers/Service Bureaus can image your files...

I am one of "Those" holding back and slowly looking at OSX, inspite of my belief that mixing 9 & X is a bad idea...

The migration to the next level should be as short a process as possible... Unfortunatly Apple has not convinced the print industry that OSX is ready or needed... {Just what I am seeing}

Particularly since Steve Jobs announced 9's death and started building a brick wall between the 2 OS's before OS9's body was cold...

Quark has done the same thing by not having a cross over version.... I find it funny that Adobe touted Indesign as the 1st OSX Layout app and is now touting it as the only choice for users with a OS9 workflow....

Call me cynical... but I suspect I will be receiving QX 4.11 files for some time to come...

 

[Mississauga]

JAMG wrote:
"Unfortunately Apple has not convinced the print industry that OSX is ready or needed... {Just what I am seeing}"

I think there's a twist in that logic.

OS X is superior to any previous Apple OS for the print industry. It's networking abilities and printer handling cannot be topped. It would seem we, out here to the west of T.O., are much more aggressive with the switch to OS X. Most of the service bureaus in my locale, whom I contacted over the last 6 months while looking for InDesign support, are most definitely running OS X.

I would suggest there's nothing more Apple can do to convince companies steeped in fear. It's time for the entire print industry to sweep fear under the mat and make the switch to an OS which will provide substantial benefits.

And if Quark is holding anyone up, forget it and start using InDesign. If enough pressure is put upon services bureaus, they will HAVE to support "the better page layout application".

 

[JAMG]

I'm not saying support is not there, Most Trade Printers and Service Bureaus we work with have 1 or 2 OSX Macs but jobs requiring them are not the majority...

This is not opinion or Logic... It is what they tell me...

As a service provider, I have to be ahead of the curve so I can answer the needs of my clients... but I spent considerilble time with ID1, ID1.5 and ID2 with little or no return in the way of Client file... Now that might just be our client base...

I also spent time learning OS X 10.1.3 through 10.1.5...
and then Jag and now I'm reading everything I can about Panther.... I'm not really complaining about that, I know I will be ahead when my client make the move..... But I have no indication that they are...

Whether OS X is superior or not is opinion... and I respect yours... but I have never had many of the alleged problems with OS9 that I read about...

Configured properly and maintained OS9.1 or 9.2 runs stable and reliable... as did 8.5 befroe that and 7.5 before that.... {For their time...}

In my experience, Users with problem systems usually spend a great deal of time installing anything and everything they can get their hands on and little time worrying about the consecuences...


Logically, Mississauga, I agree with you, there is little to be gained in hanging on to old technology be it for love or fear... However the new stuff needs to work first.... without the wholesale replacement of existing hardware and also be inviting....

You are correct... Fear is holding a lot of users back....
Berating them for that fear is hardly going to win them over...

 

[jtmac]

I don't use either program much, but layout gurus tell me that InDesign's easy "drop shadows" alone make the switch worthwhile.

 

[Urban_Legend]

You know what will change people's minds? When Adobe comes out with Indesign 3.0 and blows away QXP 6.0 by 2 years in advance technology. If the Press companies at that point still want to be using old dinosaur age software, by all means go ahead, but man someone has to have the balls and guts to move with the times and into the future.

 

[Noodleboy]

I've used both Xpress and Indesign and I must say that I prefer Indesign. It's more intuitive, especially if you are comfortable with other Adobe programs. Indesign does offer more than Xpress; although I have not tried version 6 of Xpress.
Funny thing is, a lot of the places I go to get stuff printed will take EPS and PDF files. It's only been the occasional times that I delivered Xpress or even rarer, Indesign files. Then again, I rarely layout books or mags.
Just as a side note, Indesign 2 offers the Xpress 4 keyboard shortcuts. So, if you are used to Xpress' keys, you can use this option in Indesign and feel like you haven't really switched.

 

[avalonian]

keyboard shortcuts retained? Have to check it out. An Adobe rep promised me he would send me a migrating from Quark to indesign video, but he never followed through. Maybe I'll migrate myself.

I'm not convinced being able to dropshadow everything at the flick of the switch is worth... the switch. The ability to place multiresolution files and native ai and photoshop files is much more appealing. So is the native pdf environment.

 

[Bilbo]

I've used XPress for over 12 years, but I switched to InDesign. It's not perfect, but it blows the doors off XPress.

We still need to have a copy or two of XPress around, but all new jobs that I work on are built in InDesign.

We have not received our XPress 6 upgrades yet, but from what I have seen and read, there is not much to be excited about.

I really like InDesign and have put XPress in my rearview mirror.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
B

 

[wonderings]

thanks everyone for your comments and opinions. I think I might have to try a few jobs here and there on indesign and see how things work before I make any major changes

 

[JAMG]

Wonderings...

That is a wise course of action, what ever your preference.... Offer support for both and using the best aspects of each is better than rigidly sticking to one or the other...

Many will stick with Quark out of Fear or compatibility...
Few will stay with it out of love and they really should seek help.

Indesign offers a wealth of features but does not guarantee that they all work with existing equipment... {neither does Quark}...

User beware... because you'll end up being responsible for the files you create....
Quark has similar problems but workarounds were developed so long ago that people forget how much trouble some processes were...


Quark's recent tech support {if you can call it that} pricing and suppressed user forums are ridiculous and indefencible.... instead of controlling negative reactionss they are increasing them...

 

[Bilbo]

Wonderings...

Just bear in mind that InDesign does not work exactly the same as XPress and there will be a learning curve. I say this because I had to adjust my thinking a bit when learning InDesign and I have read numerous posts of frustrated people trying to use InDesign as if it was XPress. Some things are better and some things are just different.

Also InDesign sports a lot of powerful features. With that power, you run the risk of getting into trouble if you don't fully understand them. It is like any program, the more powerful the program the greater the chance of getting into trouble.

But you obviously know this already and seem to be taking a logical approach.

Jump in, the water's great!

Good Luck,
B

PS - The InDesign Visual Quickstart Guide by Sandee Cohen is a great reference.