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Payments between Banks

1756 Views 17 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  krs
Hopefully there are some bankers out there in eMacland that can answer this question...


I hold a credit card for BankA....but use BankB account to pay it. Both major Canadian banks.

The due date is a Monday. To avoid incurring an interest charge, I schedule the payment to occur on the preceding Friday.

My CC statement comes in with an interest charge. Right on the statement, it appears that the CC bank (BankA) recognizes that my transaction date was the Friday but doesn't "post" it until Tuesday, thus incurring the interest.

So OK, lesson learned, better schedule my payments to occur 6 calendar days ahead of due date, especially if there is a weekend involved - and there ALWAYS seems to be a weekend involved.

But here's the query: The payment shows as being removed from BankB on Friday, and I no longer earn any interest (such as it is) or have use of it from that point forward, but BankA doesn't give me credit for it until Tuesday. Who has the benefit of the funds in the meantime? The only thing I know for sure is that I don't have the benefit of it?

I asked both banks' customer service - both suggested the other one had the benefit, but when pressed for further details admitted that they honestly didn't know.
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hahaha that's an excellent question KC4! I have often wondered that too and was forced to schedule earlier withdrawals. That money is floating out there digitally until accepted and posted by the receiving bank. Who benefits? Why of course it's Interac! and it is the one pocketing the $$ while that money temporarily is in its coffers!
I hear you. Does the account holder ever really benefit though? Banks make a lot of money reinvesting your funds while charging you fees, and interest rates are a bit of a joke, as you alluded to. I'm thinking about keeping my money in a sock :)
If you think about it.... when you perform payments or transfers from one bank institution to another, the medium that's used is Interac or one of its competitors. They make their money invisibly by collecting gadzillions of pennies of interest while the transactions are in their digital accounts until they are claimed by the receiving institutions. Of course Interac also collect fees from us for using their services.
I was in a similar situation, then I opened a chequing account with the same bank that has my credit card.

Now I email transfer my payment from myself at my main bank (cost $1.50) and deposit it into my new chequing account when the email arrives (usually within an hour).

Then I do an account transfer of the amount from the chequing account, directly to the credit card, and the payment is received immediately.

The trick was getting an account with no fees (because I didn't want to pay banking fees for 2 different accounts). It took some dealing with a branch manager, but I did finally succeed. Rather, I was able to negotiate a number of free transactions before the fees kick in, something like 5 per month. Since I only pay my credit card 1-2 times per month, I've paid no fees yet.

Cheers,
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I have asked that question both sending and receiving institutions several times and of course the answer is always that the other institution is at fault.
So far nobody has ever mentioned Interact or some other payment service.
The transfer times are also very inconsistent I find.
Sometimes the amount is in the other account the next day - other times it takes up to four days - not counting weekends and holidays of course.
I didn't realize the electrons that shuffle the information between banks get to rest on weekends and holidays - I hope that doesn't become common knowledge. Right now my Mac still works on these days - I can just see it - I'll turn the Mac on on Saturday morning and get a message - sorry, off the weekend, try again on Monday.

I always wanted to write to the government agency regulating banks to see what they have to say about it.
I do a fair amount of banking in Europe, everything on line of course. There payments move within the system, even between countries, by the next day. never really checked what happens on the weekend.

What I understand from my bank and I think tyhat is pretty accurate.
They (and all banks) do the transfers once a day. Some banks even specify when.
So on day 1, if you initiate the transfer before the cut off hour - say 4pm, then your money is sitting ready to be picked up by the receiving institution. If they decide to pick up at 3pm, then you just missed the pick-up and your money sits there for another day.
But absolutely worst case should be that the transfer is completed the second day after you initiate it - no longer.
It's not clear to me why nothing moves on holidays or weekends - it's not that anyone is actually physically involved in a transfer.
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Now I email transfer my payment from myself at my main bank (cost $1.50) and deposit it into my new chequing account when the email arrives (usually within an hour).
What happens if the email never arrives?
Happens every once in a while - I just had it happen last week.
Email was sent, shows up in the sent box of the sender but it never arrived and is also not in any spam box.
Admittedly - this happens very seldom - I think - but there may be cases where on doesn't even know that an email has just vanished in cyberspace.
Which is why they usually referred to as Banksters.beejacon

The one thing you can be sure of is that with all that fancy razzle dazzle, some ones making millions just not you!:eek:
Greedy banks... I paid off my wife's high interest credit card with Royal Bank in full well before the due date with my super low rate credit card (TD Emerald Visa, Prime + 1.9% to 6.9% depending on the individual) to help her pay it off faster, and Royal Bank still charged her interest anyway.
Greedy banks... I paid off my wife's high interest credit card with Royal Bank in full well before the due date with my super low rate credit card (TD Emerald Visa, Prime + 1.9% to 6.9% depending on the individual) to help her pay it off faster, and Royal Bank still charged her interest anyway.
I had a friend faced with this dilemma. He could of passed as Biker Gang type. Any ways he very politely told the bank manager to fix it NOW or he would be coming back with a large crowbar.beejacon Somehow or another it got fixed. :D
KC, here's the deal. If you hold a credit card at bank A, you are their asset and have incurred a liability to them. If you have money in bank B, you are a creditor and they are liable to you. Thus with interbank transactions, especially on Fridays [ a hold over from the archaic days of paper transfers ] you are on next day's business. But for the bank B, which you are a creditor, they process you claim in real time, so to not be on their books. However the other bank's transaction, which is for the credit card has a processing delay to ensure the monies are there and have cleared. This even works if you make an on-line payment to the same bank from your account to your CC.

Racket, yes. How banks control payments from customers has long been a consumer issue. What you need to do is know your bank's process method [ sometimes a painful lesson ] and adapt your payment process to it. A pain I know but until a rewrite of the Bank Act or some Consumer legislation hits we shall all be held captive.
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You should try doing the same thing in US currency with Canadian banks..XX) even within the same bank.

Generally it's due to Visa being a completely separate financial institution unto itself and also I suspect due to fraud limiting.

If I transfer funds from one account to another it shows immediately.
If I transfer FROM my VISA I see the funds in my account right away but not deducted from Visa right away.
Same thing in the other direction - _ I don't see the transaction but the funds are available to use...
In the case of US funds this has led to a couple of faceplants on my part - I ended up with a $6500 credit ( like above my credit limit ) when i double paid.
With US funds it
a) does not shows up going out
b) or going in
for 48 hours so you can see how it can happen....I've complained that there is simply no way to see that transaction. It should at least show pending....


:confused:

Payments between banks then just complicates the timing.

In general I have found that the CC company will always credit the interest if you ask as they know they would lose if you took it to small claims so they just roll over.

In general I've found a couple days extra does not hurt - most transactions go through the next day tho.

Long weekends are brutal.
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You should try doing the same thing in US currency with Canadian banks..XX) even within the same bank.

Generally it's due to Visa being a completely separate financial institution unto itself and also I suspect due to fraud limiting.

...
Drop the word limiting and you have a direct hit.:D
Yeah I experience the same issue, with my CC and my bank account being with the same bank, a major canadian bank.

It takes Visa 2-3 business days to process the payment, so I always give 3-4 days to make sure.
What happens if the email never arrives?
Happens every once in a while - I just had it happen last week.
Email was sent, shows up in the sent box of the sender but it never arrived and is also not in any spam box.
Admittedly - this happens very seldom - I think - but there may be cases where on doesn't even know that an email has just vanished in cyberspace.
There is a time limit for the money transfer to be claimed (I think it is 24 or 36 hours) after that it goes back into the senders account.
She did complain to Royal Bank and they simply said it was the way everyone does things but I dunno, I wasn't dinged interest by Crappy Tire Financial Services the one month I had to pay my Options Mastercard balance with my TD Emerald Visa.

Oh I like my TD Visa because when I make a transfer from my chequing to Visa account, it reflects the payment right away via an immediate increase in credit limit available -- even though I don't use this card for day to day purchases, it's still nice to see our debt go down in real time. My Options Mastercard does that as well when I make a cash payment at a Crappy Tire store.
The payments between the banks are governed by the CPA (Canadian Payments Association) check out the website, Canadian Payments Association - Home

While most of our interaction with the Banks is in real time and it's right to have the expectation that our transaction should be processed in real time, unfortunatly most transaction processing between the CDN banks are done through a batch system tape/secure FTP file exchange between the banks during the week in the middle of the night. Not many bank or banking support centres work Saturday or Sunday night or the night following a bank holiday, boy could you imagine the fees on your checking account if they did?!!!! Yes you would expect that this is very automated because they have built the front end to be that way but the back end processing is still very manual.
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.........most transaction processing between the CDN banks are done through a batch system tape/secure FTP file exchange between the banks during the week in the middle of the night. Not many bank or banking support centres work Saturday or Sunday night or the night following a bank holiday, boy could you imagine the fees on your checking account if they did?!!!! Yes you would expect that this is very automated because they have built the front end to be that way but the back end processing is still very manual.
I assume it's the back end processing that's manual that is the problem.

I noticed that some of my payments are processed by the next day which I find satisfactory - what is not satisfactory are the ones that take four days (not counting weekends or holidays). That just shouldn't happen but when one complaints about it all I get is that this is normal, nobody can do anything about it and just allow 5 days for the transfer to happen.
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