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Hello,

Not to be the copyright policeman, as there are several around here already, but I've noticed some people stating that they have installed their copy of Panther on more than one machine. Is this allowed under the software agreement? Or have you all been buying the Family Pack?

James
 

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HI there, I am one of those bad boyz and installed OSX on a few different systems...this is how I look at it..I bought the first OSX 10.1 and OSX 10.2 and now OSX 10.3 add that up and thats a good chunk of change...as well I have three macs all less than 2 years old and that is a hefty chunck of change as well...so for me to go and spend another $100 plus to get a 5 person software licence so I can sleep better at night because I am not running that same copy of X on all three machines is not going to happen.. gimme a break man...if Apple had a better upgrade policy I would do it that way...but everyone here has been gouged everytime there has been a major update...what happened to Apple giving people who upgrade thier machines a break? what happens to those people who bought say a ibook 900? or an imac 1.25 GHZ or whatever before OCT8? they now have to shell out $129 US for the new OSX or $199 for the family pack...I say screw you apple for that...I am happy with my installations...and won't buy the family pack anytime soon....my 2 cents....sorry...Mark
 

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I agree that as long as it's only for personal use, one shouldn't feel bad for installing the OS on more than one computer. It's not like I'm letting someone else use the disk or even reselling it. I've paid for this OS and since OS 8x and 9x are not supported by Apple I'll have to keep up with change. Just don't expect me to pay anything extra for installing the newest OS on the 4 Macs I have. Gene B. ;)
 

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I disagree with both of you

Just because you paid for stuff before, you should not pay now? That's insane, seriously.

You want to talk about being gouged for updates, get a windows box. Your sick of paying for Major upgrades? Give me a BREAK!
I WANT them to come out with a Major upgrade every year, that way we have the latest and greatest to go along with new technology, but you think you shouldnt pay for it? Why, the 1500+ people that worked on it had to get paid, they had to pay people to do grpahics for it, box it, ship it, but you shouldnt pay for that right?

So, will you go into work for free on Monday morning? Or course you won't, but you will whine about them getting paid for thie hard work

Stop making excuses, you are breaking a LEGAL agreement, regardless of how fair you think it is. Would you go into MacDoc and grab a panther box and walk out? Of course not (Well, maybe you will) but what you are doing is the same thing, without the box. :mad:

I agree they could do better with the Recently Purchased upgrade, but comon, should you get an upgrade to a G5 because you bought a G4 6 months ago? or even 3 weeks ago? Welcome to the wonderful world of technology IT CHANGES.
 

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First of all I really doubt it is anyone's business what you do with your copy of Jaguar.

Of course its illegal to put the OS on multiple computers if you only buy one license, but that is Apples problem, if there was a huge amount of OSX Piracy going on then I am sure apple would implement a strict serial number policy.

By the way you can't equate stealing a copy of OSX from a vendor with putting an OS on two CPU's instead of one. I could see that analogy if you downloaded a pirate copy and installed it, but not if you installed it on multiple CPU's after buying it.

If its for personal use I see no probs with it, some people need to get of their high "copyright" horses and relax.


Just as an aside I once broke a OS7 CD on accident, since I owned the license and I thought I should be able to get replacement discs for a reasonable amount of money. Unfortunately when I called apple they basically said tough luck you should can another OS for full price. Based on Apples attitude to licenses I see no reason to worry about installing an OS on more than one CPU, they obviously don't believe the OS license means much anyway.
 

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I have a Quicksilver machine and a Pismo. I'm planning on installing Panther on both. I figure that since I don't use both machines at the same time this should be OK, shouldn't it? Not that it means anything but I did this with Jaguar too.

I think that installing on anything beyond a desktop and a laptop would be pushing it. I think that's why Apple introduced the family pack licensing option.
 

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I tend to agree with the last statement. As long as you are not using the OS on more than one machine simultaniously (ie: a family installing it on multiple machines for multiple family members) it should be fine.

I believe that is how other companies treat it as well. I think Quark is an example.
 

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but that is Apples problem, if there was a huge amount of OSX Piracy going on then I am sure apple would implement a strict serial number policy.
???????

People put alot of time and money into doing this stuff, and almost every company out there has the same policy, you run it on ONE MACHINE, you agree to that when you click OK, if you break that, then you are breaking the law.
Step out of your bubble and get into the real world, we have rules and laws here, and no matter what you say to justify it to yourself, you broke the law, you are now a criminal REGARDLESS if is it "For Personal Use".

If you can sleep at night knowing that, then fine. But dont go public and tell people that it's the company's fault or that it is unfair so it is OK.

/rant
This will be the last I post on this, I have talked to enough pirates (Doing my documentary) to know I will never change your mind about it.
 

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First of all the Copyright laws are a big mess, just look at the RIAA and their crusade against piracy, suing 12 year olds and grandparents. Gimme a break.

All the RIAA has to do is lower the price on CDs and bam the problem would more or less be fixed.

As for software Piracy I know quite a few pirates myself and the majority of them pretty much download software because they like to collect it , not because they are going to use it... I also know a lot of students who use pirated software for learning purposes.

You would rarely find professionals using pirated software. If you do then they are idiots because if the software fails when they are in a crunch then they have no support from the vendor.

I'm not saying Piracy is right or good I am just saying people who don't take the time to understand why there is piracy shouldn't start whining about people putting an OS on multiple machines. Unless that person is going to sell the machine and keeps the OS installed.

Step out of your bubble and get into the real world
You are the one who should step out of the bubble. And realise that istalling an OS on multiple machines does not make you a criminal.
 

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wow Mac daddy...chill out....maybe take the wife or girlfriend out and have some fun...all I am saying is that I own a new imac, a G4 tower, and an ibook 800...all of them have a fairly recent version of OSX on it..imac had 10.1.4 when I bought it (imac stock cd's) the ibook had OSx 10.2 (stock cd's) and the G4 tower came with OSX 10.1...I also bought the original OSX when I still had a 7600...and then I got the 10.1 upgrade..I then bought 10.2 before I had any of these computers as well...I bought these computers at different times and they all have OSX 10.2.8 on them from my retail Jag cd's...now I want to upgrade...so your saying it's theft to install OSX Panther on all of these? even though I don't want to spend the extra $100 plus dollars for the family pack? I could EASILY DLOAD panther off of limewire or poison...and not bother with paying my favorite company anything....not feel bad? I would...I give MAJOR kudos to Apples engineers for all thier Hardwork...there is no better out there...but what about the fact that apple doesn't want old machines around...hence unsupported utility x? or now called xpostfacto? what is with that? how many people do you think are using pirated versions of X on unsupported machines that Ryan hacked up so people could install it against the wishes of Apple? some people can't AFFORD new Macs...and/or the updates..I don't condone theft in the slightest...don't get your panties in a Knot...there is alot worse things out there than using one version of an OS on more than one HOME personal computer!...I gladly pay to Use and buy the software...but God willing am I going to pay to have three copies that I don't need...if Apple was REALLY against it...they would do more to stop people from using one copy on many macs...
 

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Macdaddy doesn't have to chill out. I too am sick and tired of people justifying their pirating because of such and such excuse. :mad: Apple thankfully hasn't put in a strict serialization scheme into their OS. Apple's is good enough to work on an honour's system. Still, there will always be people with no honour and whine about it and think the world owes them something.

If you want to be cheap, go ahead, but don't admit to it here on ehMac and don't whine when Apple does implement a strict serialization scheme. :rolleyes:
 

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I have read some interesting comments so far from both side. I tend to agree on both side for diferent reasons.

First of all, I totaly agree that pros should pay for their software. On the other hand the licence cost of some software is totaly insane when you are not a student and just want the software to try it or do something small once i a while. In my mind, they should make a new licence price for people who want the software but arent planing to make money out of it. Best exemple: Flash. You can install it and play for a month they bye bye, you are out of the try period and you have to pay the ridiculous price, even if you just want to use it maybe a total for 10 hours in the next year.

I totaly understand the reason we have to pay for software and I am going to pay for my licence of OS X and Keynotes. But for Flash 2004, I still havent make up my mind. Maybe I will just buy an educational version (I am working in an university) and use it for personnal use. I wouldnt respect the licence agrement (it has to be for school work) but at least they would get money out of it (my conscience would be clear) and I am not planing to make money with it so they cant cal me a pro.

Finaly, not respecting the licence agreement is not criminal. Its just a breach of contract. Unless I am mistaken, to be criminal, an act has to be described in the criminal code. Pirating (installing the software from a copy you didnt pay for) would be criminal. So multiple installation of a copy you paid for on your computer would be a breach of contract and as such Apple could sue you, but they cant call you a criminal for it. I hope this woudl clarify something and please, if you plan to argue with me about this, you better hyperlink the article of the criminal code...

Moral of the story, pirates hurt the market but at the same time the price of the softwares doesnt motivate people to buy them for casual use. So be a good citizen, pay for your software and alway cross the street at intersections...
 

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WOW that was the greatest post I have read as of late....and couldn't agree more with you on that...I ruffled a few feathers here today I think...but I liked your post! very true...thanks for the insight...
 

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lock me up im a crazzzzzzzzzy criminal... wowwy we break the law, we must pay the consequences.... we've ruined it for everyone that respects the law... tell me, do you wait for the walk signal to come up before crossing the road too?

when i buy my powerbook, its gonna have panther... and im installing it on my parents imac... yup, thats right. arrggg matey...
 

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To me, linux is free if your time isn't worth much.
Wow. At the risk of being banned from your forum I don't think I'd be making statements like that in an arena where there highly skilled and knowledgeable computer people. In the hands of someone that knows how to compile to their needs and specific use, Linux is far more stable, powerful and bullet proof than anything that Apple or MS can put out. And when running on an Intel or AMD based system will absolutly crush a Mac in real world performance

That's not a slam against Apple I like their stuff. MS? Well why not!
 

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I'd agree with ehMax; Linux is free only if your time is worthless. You're going to burn a whole lot of time setting up Linux compared to setting up Mac OS X (or even Windows).
 

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I'm going to wade into this topic...

As a bitter Apple customer (purchasing a 12" PB G4 only to have Apple release a performance comparable iBook G4 a couple of months later) I do not worry about the 1500 Apple Employee's working on Panther. They all got paid (some well some not)... and no matter what you may think Apple did not loose money over piracy. In a software company you do not forecast piracy (how many copies you don't know about) you forecast product sales. Product sales is the number you see through your sales channels... Product Managers forecast these numbers when they put together their Market Requirement Documents and business plans.

After the fact... Accountants at Apple may do studies on piracy rates... But Software companies do not plan and build products to be pirated... they plan and build products to be sold.

That all being said... If someone buys a copy and then installs it on two computers which are not being used simultaneously I do not see as a breach of a software license.

for the record... I purchased OS/X 10.0 when it was released and I plan to purchase OS/X 10.3 (and will only have it one computer, my other Macs all 7 of them are pre-G3). When I make these purchases it is really for the box, convenience and support. That is what is of value to me the consumer and why I would pay money for it.

Here is an interesting view on intellectual property rights... IP is just that... a thought an idea put together in a certain fashion. If capitalism uses the "nature" argument about "survival of the fittest" for companies it must remember that Nature has no IP rights... (whoa anarchist argument here). Last I heard a species in nature (say the red breasted finch) do not have IP lawyers on retainer to stop a competing species (European sparrow) from copying their IP on nest building.

OK bring it on... I hope and trust this is incendiary... I love being a s**t disturber.
 

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tell me, do you wait for the walk signal to come up before crossing the road too?
Let's not confuse accepted practises with lapses in common sense. A pedestrian should always obey street lights. Mainly because there are tons of drivers that don't...
 

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As a loooong time Linux user...... I have to smile ;)

Can you say open source?

I like Macs, I like the hardware, I like the way they operate. I really like the fact that script kiddies and everyone else that hacks virus code leaves Macs alone[thanks Bill for overseeing and bringing to market the buggiest software ever designed and released on the general public].

I don't normally get into these kind of posts, but I mean really, do you really think Jobs gives a s#@t if you install Panther on the three machines you bought from him already for your own private use? I think not. I mean he's got you people paying a grand for mp3 players!! Apple releases hardware upgrades and revisions like MS releases patches for it buggy OS.

Personally I'll install it on all my machines. Apple has about $15,000.00 dollars of my mine. I don't feel guilty about installing a copy of an OS I paid for on them. If I had a company that ran 30 workstations? Then of course there'd be 30 different Panther licenses.

There are far greater issues that are of real importance that concern me, this is not one of them.
 

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I can't believe some of you "moral superiorists"! Give me a break! Mantat's comments pretty much summed up the whole thing.

So my questions to MacDaddy and EhMax are as follows:

Do you smoke (or have you ever smoked)? How do you feel morally about knowingly killing people?

Do you drive (or have you ever driven) a car? How do you feel morally about knowingly contributing to the decay of our environment?

MacDaddy... you made a documentary? I'm willing to bet you broke several laws. A logo on someone's t-shirt, or in the background... I'm willing to bet there's a few companies that have logos or products displayed in your video that you didn't get written permission to use. How do you feel about that?

My point is: get a damn life. No one is perfect, including you. The difference is, you think you are.

Every person has to make a choice as to what is acceptable to them. That's how society works. The kid that pirated Photoshop got to learn a skill, and maybe realise he has a talent. He will become a designer now because he realised he had a talent... not possible if he hadn't pirated Photoshop. Every action has its purpose in life. If we were all perfect, society would not function.

Just the comments of yet another morally reprehensible jackass. ;)

A7
 
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