Canadian Mac Forums at ehMac banner
1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,798 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Splitting off from another thread:
http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/52607-i-need-new-health-card.html

Lars, the point of not having one is that I hate to drive. Besides, I've driven illegally before and if an emergency arose, I'd drive again. Few cops would ticket you if it were an emergency. Also, it costs money to have one, non? Don't you have to renew it every 5 years?
I'll stick with my HC thanks.
Yikes! With that attitude, I would hope the cops would come down hard on you. Hate to drive, but drive illegal when needed? Don't want to spend money on a driver's license? Just what we need - uninsured, untrained drivers on the road. Do us all favour and get a driver's license. Or stay off the roads completely, emergency or not.

take a pill buddy. if I need to get someone to the hospital I will.
Who says I'm untrained?
Besides, I've seen some of you "trained" drivers and nearly been hit by them.
1) Driving is a priviledge, not a right. That means that you can't just "choose" to drive when you feel the need, emergency or not.

2) If you don't regularly drive, you are not going to be as good of a driver as the majority of people on the road.

3) Using the "I've seen worst drivers than me WITH a license" is a cheap shot at best. The difference is they are LICENSED to be on the road, and you are not.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,076 Posts
I'm with gt on this... if you don't have a license, stay off the road! If you need to go to the hospital, call 911... or get a cab. I honestly hope that you get a huge fine the next time you drive without a license... you're just endangering others needlessly.
 

·
Resident Curmudgeon
Joined
·
86,940 Posts
No license, no driving pure and simple. And if you do, they certainly should throw the book at you, emergency or not. I mean really, at what $10 a year or so to hold one, you can't afford it? I doubt that is the case. Your attitude is not rational in any way.
 

·
Mac Guru
Joined
·
14,627 Posts
-- Deleted.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,903 Posts
I think this comes down to "emergency", which is quite subjective. I agree with the 911/cab comment but some -- very rare -- emergencies require more speed. How many people would not break certain laws and potentially put others at risk for an "emergency"?

Still, I think that someone who makes this choice should take their lumps if caught (pay all fines) or if in an accident (plead guilty) and not try to wiggle out of things like so many do with speeding.

GT's 3 is, to me, right on the mark, though. Trying to pass off such a decision by appeal to a vague concept of some portion of law abiding people not doing so well is a weak defence.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,388 Posts
Scary I'm in agreement with GT on this issue.

The minimum purpose of passing a driver examination is certify you understand the motor vehicle act and regulations.

You may posses the skills of steering and braking, heck you may even know how to use a clutch. How wonderful!

As a result of not having a driver's license, you do not have public liability or public damage car insurance.

If you had passed your driver's examination you would know that it is a serious matter to drive a vehicle upon a public highway without valid insurance coverage for that vehicle.

Ignorance is bliss I guess. :rolleyes:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,805 Posts
Whether you agree or not, "Ignorance" is not a legal defense.
If you can't afford the very minimal charge for Government approved Identification, then you deserve the penalty.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
31,013 Posts
Driving is a skill not a privilege or a right.

Having a licence allows one to exercise that skill on public roads ( you do not have to have a licence to drive on private property. ).

I'm a licenced pilot but my licence is not current.
It does not mean I do not have the skill to fly a plane in an emergency and to do so safely.

One can get rusty and so take extra care but the skill does not disappear.

If I'm in a plane where my skills are needed of course I would fly the plane.

I'm QUITE sure Robert makes similar judgement calls as we all do in speeding, rolling through stop signs and driving without our licence in the car.

We get caught, he gets caught - there are proscribed penalties which again I'm quite sure he would honour.

I've driven 60 miles at over 160 k in an emergency and would have loved to attract a cop....none to be had and lucky we did drive at that speed as it turned out.

When confronted by an emergency one exercises best judgement...not is this legal or not - that's waaaaaaaaaay down the list.
Would you not break a window to get into a burning house....that's break and enter.

At least in flying we could subtly "discourage" those would be pilots we knew were a danger to themselves and others so they never got their licence.

I would concur that having a licence is unfortunately no indicator of skill...tho for a new driver these days it does mean a certain amount of persistence, training, discretion and testing has occurred.

A drivers licence is a choice...congrats Robert for lowering your carbon footprint. ;)
....even better good judgement.
 

·
Resident Curmudgeon
Joined
·
86,940 Posts
Driving is a skill not a privilege or a right.

Having a licence allows one to exercise that skill on public roads ( you do not have to have a licence to drive on private property. ).

I'm a licenced pilot but my licence is not current.
It does not mean I do not have the skill to fly a plane in an emergency and to do so safely.

One can get rusty and so take extra care but the skill does not disappear.

If I'm in a plane where my skills are needed of course I would fly the plane.

I'm QUITE sure Robert makes similar judgement calls as we all do in speeding, rolling through stop signs and driving without our licence in the car.

We get caught, he gets caught - there are proscribed penalties which again I'm quite sure he would honour.

I've driven 60 miles at over 160 k in an emergency and would have loved to attract a cop....none to be had and lucky we did drive at that speed as it turned out.

When confronted by an emergency one exercises best judgement...not is this legal or not - that's waaaaaaaaaay down the list.
Would you not break a window to get into a burning house....that's break and enter.

At least in flying we could subtly "discourage" those would be pilots we knew were a danger to themselves and others so they never got their licence.

I would concur that having a licence is unfortunately no indicator of skill...tho for a new driver these days it does mean a certain amount of persistence, training, discretion and testing has occurred.

A drivers licence is a choice...congrats Robert for lowering your carbon footprint. ;)
....even better good judgement.
Congrats on perhaps the dumbest post ever on ehMac. Or is it just me?

Gee MD, what ARE you smokin'?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
781 Posts
I'd like to know what GT is smoking?

Having a piece of paper saying you are legally allowed to drive a motor vehicle on a public road does not automatically make anyone lacking said piece of paper a bad driver. There are a number of reasons a fully competent driver may not have a valid lisense, including (for example): it expired, they moved from another province/country (IIRC you have a certain amount of time to get a local license), etc.

If an emergency situation arises, there might be no other choice but for someone who is not legally entitled to drive to do so. If the alternative if someone's death, you are being incredibly insensitive and downright stupid to say they should not drive.

What if two friends are out camping in a remote area? Should they call a cab, which might be two hours one way from their location and unable to to traverse the local logging roads? That's a four hour round trip. They could cut that time in half if the unlicensed person takes the wheel.

1) Driving is a priviledge, not a right. That means that you can't just "choose" to drive when you feel the need, emergency or not.
Taking the wheel because someone is in serious need of medical attention is not a choice, it is what any decent person would do. You say "Well, er, they might hurt someone if they drive." Right - and someone is very likely to die if they don't! In that kind of situation, what would you do? Let your loved one die because you lack a piece of paper?

2) If you don't regularly drive, you are not going to be as good of a driver as the majority of people on the road.
Let's see some actual evidence to back this up. In fact, someone who drives less often could well be a better driver, because they don't develop bad habits, and pay more attention to the road.

3) Using the "I've seen worst drivers than me WITH a license" is a cheap shot at best. The difference is they are LICENSED to be on the road, and you are not.
We're not talking about every day driving here: unlicensed people who drive daily should be charged and/or fined. But in an emergency, when no other option is available, you do what you have to do.

All a driver's license is is a piece of paper saying you are allowed to drive. When someone is near death, there are more important things to be concerned about than a piece of paper.

Hell, I read a question from a young, unlisenced woman to a cop not long ago, asking "if my parents were very drunk, who would you prefer drive the car home?" The answer: the girl.

Honestly, the whole premise of this thread is ridiculous, and GT should be ashamed of attacking this theoretical someone put in a very difficult situation.

:confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
249 Posts
I have my learners, I've had it for about four years now. I drove for a good chunk of two years with supervisory-type person in the car. I just never bothered to take the test to get my not quite full license. I will volunteer to drive a car if all other legal drivers are drunk/stoned or otherwise incapacitated. Yes, it would wrong and otherwise completely illegal, but i would be driving below the speed limit and paying super attention to the road.

Flame me all you want, but would you rather have the drunk with the license driving or a sober almost driver who is doing his best to get people home safely.
And to suggest a taxi is stupid. that would be at least 40-50 bucks per person to get them each home safely.

I have never done this, but the offer still remains.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
Goofy thread, but anyway...

Injure or kill someone while driving without a valid license and you'll be treated like a common criminal. There is simply is no justification, it's roulette, and it's stupid.

It's not about the ability to drive, it's about liability when things go wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,798 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Having a piece of paper saying you are legally allowed to drive a motor vehicle on a public road does not automatically make anyone lacking said piece of paper a bad driver.
No, but it does make them an illegal driver.

There are a number of reasons a fully competent driver may not have a valid lisense, including (for example): it expired, they moved from another province/country (IIRC you have a certain amount of time to get a local license), etc.
Excuses, excuses, excuses.

If an emergency situation arises, there might be no other choice but for someone who is not legally entitled to drive to do so. If the alternative if someone's death, you are being incredibly insensitive and downright stupid to say they should not drive.
Now we're going to extremes. "OMG! He's going to die! We're miles from nowhere! Only I'm not licensed to drive! OMG!" Please.

What if two friends are out camping in a remote area? Should they call a cab, which might be two hours one way from their location and unable to to traverse the local logging roads? That's a four hour round trip. They could cut that time in half if the unlicensed person takes the wheel.
Using a hypothetical to support the illegal activities of an individual is really lame.

Taking the wheel because someone is in serious need of medical attention is not a choice, it is what any decent person would do. You say "Well, er, they might hurt someone if they drive." Right - and someone is very likely to die if they don't! In that kind of situation, what would you do? Let your loved one die because you lack a piece of paper?
It's all a hypothetical. Robert claims he can drive, has driven, will continue to drive, when he wants to, and he won't get his license for any number of reasons. This thread isn't about what people should do in an emergency. This thread is about how people have a total lack off respect for certain laws (getting a driver's license). If you take 100 people without a driver's license and compare them to 100 people with a license, there is no question who will be able to handle a car on the road better.

Let's see some actual evidence to back this up. In fact, someone who drives less often could well be a better driver, because they don't develop bad habits, and pay more attention to the road.
That is the lamest excuse ever. I'm heard drunk drivers use that same excuse. "Because I'm slightly intoxicated, I drive a little slower and pay more attention to the road. I sometimes drive better intoxicated than when sober." Don't develop bad habits? Like knowing the feel of the car, how it handles on the road, the responsiveness of the accelerator and brakes?

We're not talking about every day driving here: unlicensed people who drive daily should be charged and/or fined. But in an emergency, when no other option is available, you do what you have to do.
So if the person knows how to drive, and knows one day he or she may have to drive in an emergency, why do they not have a driver's license?

All a driver's license is is a piece of paper saying you are allowed to drive. When someone is near death, there are more important things to be concerned about than a piece of paper.
Wrong. A driver's license is a piece of paper that says you KNOW how to drive. There is a huge difference.

Hell, I read a question from a young, unlisenced woman to a cop not long ago, asking "if my parents were very drunk, who would you prefer drive the car home?" The answer: the girl.
Option 3. None of the above. Sleep it off in the car or call a tow truck. Don't let the unlicensed girl drive.

Honestly, the whole premise of this thread is ridiculous, and GT should be ashamed of attacking this theoretical someone put in a very difficult situation.
I didn't attack a theoretical situation. Robert stated he has and will continue to break the law when he feels fit. I take issue with that.

http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-69-1754/life_society/road_safety/
Over the past 50 years nearly 200,000 Canadians have died in traffic accidents — more than were killed in both world wars combined.
This is why we license people to be on the road. To try to reduce these fatalities. Condoning illegal drivers adds to the problem.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,530 Posts
Makr said:
I have my learners, I've had it for about four years now. I drove for a good chunk of two years with supervisory-type person in the car. I just never bothered to take the test to get my not quite full license. I will volunteer to drive a car if all other legal drivers are drunk/stoned or otherwise incapacitated. Yes, it would wrong and otherwise completely illegal, but i would be driving below the speed limit and paying super attention to the road.

Flame me all you want, but would you rather have the drunk with the license driving or a sober almost driver who is doing his best to get people home safely.
And to suggest a taxi is stupid. that would be at least 40-50 bucks per person to get them each home safely.

I have never done this, but the offer still remains.
I suggest a DD.

Point and fact.. it shouldn't be you. It doesn't matter how long you've had your learners permit. If you hit me and damaged my car, I wouldn't have the slightest bit of sympathy on you when I took you to court for the damages that should be covered under insurance, but aren't because you weren't supposed to be driving said car.

If your friends are that *stupid* (to put it in your words) not to have a designated driver, they can sleep in the street for all I care. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,798 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I have my learners, I've had it for about four years now. I drove for a good chunk of two years with supervisory-type person in the car. I just never bothered to take the test to get my not quite full license.
So how do we know you are a capable driver?

I will volunteer to drive a car if all other legal drivers are drunk/stoned or otherwise incapacitated. Yes, it would wrong and otherwise completely illegal, but i would be driving below the speed limit and paying super attention to the road.
See, right there you have proven yourself to be a bigger problem than solution. Drive below the speed limit? Driving slow on the road is dangerous, as you create an obstacle for other drivers, forcing some to pass you, which leads to potentially hazardous situations.

Flame me all you want, but would you rather have the drunk with the license driving or a sober almost driver who is doing his best to get people home safely.
And to suggest a taxi is stupid. that would be at least 40-50 bucks per person to get them each home safely.
The good 'ol "but it'll cost money not to break the law" excuse.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
42,905 Posts
Guy: It sounds almost like aliens injected these guys with alcohol aagainst their will and accidentally missed Makr.

I think $40 out of the first drunk's pocket should get them all to his house where they can sleep it off. Even $40 from each of them is a deal compared to a $250,000 lawsuit against Makr when he crashes into someone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
781 Posts
It's all a hypothetical. Robert claims he can drive, has driven, will continue to drive, when he wants to, and he won't get his license for any number of reasons. This thread isn't about what people should do in an emergency. This thread is about how people have a total lack off respect for certain laws (getting a driver's license).
Well that's funny, because just before you said a hypothetical situation was dumb. But that's not important, because if you'd actually read the text you yourself quoted, you would see that what you said just now isn't even accurate:

Lars, the point of not having one is that I hate to drive. Besides, I've driven illegally before and if an emergency arose, I'd drive again.
You see, we're not talking about people driving illegally for ****s and giggles. I think we all agree that driving without a license is a stupid thing to do. But, if you'd actually read my last post, instead of selectively quoting from it, you'd see that I said that. I also said that there are situations where the safety of someone who is in a life threatening situation is more important than whether someone has a driver's license.

You may think it stupid to consider a hypothetical situation, but I don't think you do. I think you realize, too, that in some cases there is little other choice. Let's just say you're out camping with a friend in a remote area, and you do not have a license. Your friend is hurt and unable to drive. Do you illegally drive them to the hospital, thus saving their life? Or do you leave them to die?

So far, you've said you'll gladly leave someone to die because it's just so wrong! to drive illegally, even in an emergency. :confused: You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but that's just cold.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,798 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So, if he is capable of driving, why doesn't he have a driver's license? If he may need to drive in an emergency, why doesn't he have license? If he can drive better than some licensed drivers, why doesn't he have a license?

Could it be:
a) he failed his driver's test
b) he had it yanked for some major infraction
c) he's just too lazy and cheap to get one
d) all of the above

Tell me how putting that person on the road, behind a steering wheel, in a stressful, emergency situation is a good idea, especially considering the number of people who die every year from traffic accidents. Is he saving a life, or putting more at risk?
 

·
Tritium Glow
Joined
·
7,141 Posts
I'd like to know what GT is smoking?

Having a piece of paper saying you are legally allowed to drive a motor vehicle on a public road does not automatically make anyone lacking said piece of paper a bad driver. There are a number of reasons a fully competent driver may not have a valid lisense, including (for example): it expired, they moved from another province/country (IIRC you have a certain amount of time to get a local license), etc.

What if two friends are out camping in a remote area? Should they call a cab, which might be two hours one way from their location and unable to to traverse the local logging roads? That's a four hour round trip. They could cut that time in half if the unlicensed person takes the wheel.

:confused:
Your camper theory is flawed.

In one paragraph you mention "public" roads and in the next 'private' roads or better known as unassumed roads; on which the user assumes all risk. The unlicensed camper is perfectly legal to drive on the unassumed road provided he/she does not enter a public roadway. The smart and proper thing to do would be to have a cell phone and have emergency services meet them at the public road.
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top