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I agree. I always buy the games I own - I have stacks of game boxes and original CD's plied up in my room to prove it. ;) I don't see why people just can't buy the games they want. I know people who pirate games that cost $9.95 at the local game store. They must really be poor not to be able afford that price.
 

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Yeah, that'd work too. :D
 

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Reason people pirates games? Simple, they dont worth what you pay for, well, most of the time.

At first, I bought every game I played and everything was fine. But in the second half of the 90's, game quality was going down seriously and I was getting more and more frustrated by game that costed 80$ and that I wouldnt play for more than 5 hours because they were too bad. So I changed my ratio. For every game I bought, I copied 3 with my friends. I holded that ratio for a while (2002) and finaly stopped buying (and playing) games. The only exception was counter strike which, with EQ, is my best investment in gaming ever. To the other extreme, we bought Master of Orion 3 with great expectation only to find out latter (as in after paying 85$ for it) that is was a total crap.

See? this is the problem: gamers dont think current games worth their price tag. As for the people who copy games at 9.99$, well, they are cheap ass...

Anyways, now I will only buy a game after I played the demo just to make sure that its a good investment. This is why I still havent bought Halo :-S

Oh.. and about the article. Developpers always complain about piracy as a problem to their financial situation. I think they just want us to look away from the fac tthey they cant produce good games. As far as I know, Blizzar is still going strong!

And for the code porters, I find it hard to believe their claims. When you know that 95% of the cost of dev is going in graphics design, porting from PC to mac is a joke, cost wise. At least, as long as they didnt use DirectX...

Oh, and dont believe that I want to promote warez, I am totaly againts it! I just want good games at a reasonable price (30-40$).
 

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Part of the reason that Mac games are more expensive is that where a successful PC game will sell a few hundred thousand copies and successful Mac game will only sell about 1/10th that[1].

The less they sell, the more they will charge to recoup costs.

[1] Compare this with console games, where a successful title will sell millions of copies.
 

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See? this is the problem: gamers dont think current games worth their price tag.
That's what a demo is for. And if there is no demo, you go to a friends' house or view a demo of it elsewhere in action so you can see for yourself what's it like. If the latter isn't an option, then you simply have to justify yourself if the game is good or not simply by looking at screenshots, listed features on the box and on the web, along with reviews of the game.

You make it sound like there's a valid reason to pirate a game, let alone any other piece of software - when there isn't. No matter what your excuse or reasoning, there is no such thing as a "valid excuse" to pirate any piece of software, including games.
 

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I think Peter Tamte said it best with his quote "The main question I'd like software pirates to ask themselves is this: If I wouldn't steal this game off the shelf of CompUSA, why would I steal it off the Internet? This isn't a gray issue, it's black and white. Stealing is wrong. You can't choose which laws to obey simply because you don't like them or find them inconvenient."

Like Lars, I have a stack of game boxes (I think I threw a few away with my move to a new house) and CDs (and some old floppies) of all the games I play. I buy all the games I play. My PC buddies may find it funny, but I don't see why
I'd have to steal games. I'm not poor. Then again, I haven't bought more than a few games a year.
 

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I review games for living.

I get all mine for FREEEEEEEEE!!!

WHOOOOOOOOOooooOOoooOOOOOOoOo!

Yes, there was little point in that, but I thought I'd just take the opportunity to rub it in...

He heeee!

:D
 

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Seriously though... I believe every developer/publisher should enforce networked authentication before playing any game - even single player versions... I know that would have to ensure that every player has access to an internet connection, but these days...??

Alternatively, the industry should work together to produce a protected proprietary media format, either something similar to the old Playstation black-media copy protection scheme (obviously revised) or even a cartridge media format (containing hardware keys and software disk) similar to dongle protection...

People will crack ANYTHING and it's impossible (in my opinion anyway) to make anything 'unkrackable' - but you CAN make games a serious pain in the rear to copy... that usually deters the majority of gamers...
 

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Lars,

read the last line I wrote plz. I do not promote piracy, I just explain why people copy games.

As for the demos, I say great! When there is a demo! Most publisher now only release a demo a few months after the game is out. Going to a friends house? Come on, I am not 14 anymore! And my friends play on PC. I want to test the game when its out, not 3 weeks later when I have to justify a trip to a fried house... You should be able to test games in store, it would solve a lot of the problem.

I cant believe that you said 'look at the screenshot at the back of the box'... Havent you ever heard of the expression 'never trust a book by its cover?'. Nothing is closer to the truth in gaming where high rez pics are shown just to give a false idea of the game.

Finaly, smaller market is a lousy excuse. Porting a well coded game can be done in a few days. Problem arise when the programmers did a crappy job at the design stage. So the cost of porting is not as much as in work hours as in licence fees and other legal crap.

As I said before, I am currently developping a game with my friend. We use the best copy protection there is: none! The game will be super cheap (5-10$) so it wont worth the looser's life to copy it. Of course, we can do that because we do it for fun and the graphic work is minimal. Still, I am a firm believer of good games, not games with super detailled models...
 

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The average development house creates a game within a 40-60,000 unit sell-through recoup. Meaning that to be successful, they only have to sell roughly 80-100,000 units to retail. When a titles sells over 200,000 units, it's a runaway success...

Ex:
Maxis (via EA) produce low-level ports of their software for MacOS and their development team is lean - VERY lean. The MacOS development cycle is so trimmed down that their recoup quota is more like 20-30,000 units and a 40,000 unit sell-through within a year is a fairly reasonable quota. When their expected dev. expenditure is somewhere around the $3-400,000 range, an expected return of 4:1 is a moderately appreciable profit in comparison.

[ January 26, 2004, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Troutmagnet ]
 

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Here's what I do.... since I don't have the bleeding edge of hardware, I'm quite content to play games that were last year's news.

As an example, I recently picked a copy of Stronghold from Best Buy. I waited patiently for the price to finally be dropped from $64.99 to $14.99. By the time it gets to my price point the box tends to be a little beat up and it has long since passed into gamer obscurity, but who really cares. A good play is a good play.

I'm sure developers wish people like me would pull out the wallet a little earlier, but I just can't rationlize paying $70 or $80 bucks for the same game that PC owners are buying for $10.

I will still always purchase the game.
 

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Hello,

I would also have to say that there are many console gamers out there because consoles are damn near idiot proof, unlike most computers. If I ever want a gaming system again, then I'll buy a console.

Regarding the pirating issue, I find it very interesting how these 'lost revenues' are calculated. Given the opportunity cost of downloading a game is very low, I doubt that everyone who has downloaded a game would have purchased the original title. I have a similar difficulty with this idea from the recording industry.

Also, many games are simply crap and not worth paying for. There's nothing worse than buying a game, just to find out that it sucks really bad. My fondest example of this is when I purchased Test Drive 4. I think I played this game for about 3 or 4 hours, at most.

Finally, many pirating groups do state that a game worth playing is a game worth buying, which is an excellent motto.

James
 

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James:

I totaly agree about the 'lost revenu' calculation. I read an article where express Vu was saying that they were losing billions because of piracy. The only way one can reach such a stupid number is if you take into account that every person who is pirating the system would instead be a perfect customer who paid for everyone of the 300 channels and watched every pay per view movie.

As you can see, this is ridiculous. They use big numbers only because its the only way to be in the news...

A way for the dev to overcome piracy would be to increase the quality fo the video in the games so they would only fit on 2-3 DVDs. Of course people would still be able to copy them but downloading from the net would take months! Thinking about it, I dont understand why we havent seen any games DVD only yet! Just imagine a remake of The &th guess or Myst with DVD video quality!

Btw, when you buy your games, I hope you dont go to WalMart. If so, I would find it funny that you protect developpers jobs while putting small gamesshop on the street! How ironic!


Anyways, going to play Solitaire....
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Mantat wrote:

So I changed my ratio. For every game I bought, I copied 3 with my friends... read the last line I wrote plz. I do not promote piracy, I just explain why people copy games.
Dude, if you buy one and copy three -- you ARE promoting piracy. As a matter of fact, you're taking part in it.

Folks, I think that you cannot compare the Wintel gaming ecomonics with the Mac platform's ecomonics. Also, I feel we need to support the Mac gaming inbdustry because it is so fragile. It is a lot easier to absorb the negative impact of piracy in the Wintel gaming marketshare than it is the Mac marketshare. the more you buy, the more they'll make. It is as simple as that. And, the Mac gaming market needs all the help and support it can get. Don't you think?
 

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Hello,

Piracy will not go away because it's so easy, plus a single individual's actions cannot possible cause an entire industry to collapse. That's just ridiculous. That's like suggesting I should vote, even though I know that my single vote will not make a difference.

Perhaps I should even shop at Wal-Mart or buy 'food' from McDonald's? Wait a second. Now, I'm just being silly!


James
 

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James, for Pete's sake, do you think that I THINK that one person will harm the industry? One person will, along with tens of thousands of other dudes who rip off Mac games. if it was only one person, there wouldn't be a problem. And, if you re-read my post, I said:

"I feel we need to support the Mac gaming industry because it is so fragile... the more you buy, the more they'll make."

So, in my paragraph, I said that we need to support the gaming industry, and you can take my "the more you buy, the more they make" line as a general statement; not just "YOU" as in one person.
 

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Its so easy to blame people who pirate games and blame them for lost of revenu.

When I was a teen, I copied a lot of games, I mean a lot and paid for few. I pirated much more than what I could afford and if I wouldnt have been able to buy.

My point, is that the industry didnt lose a single dollar from me because I gave them all I could.

If you dont understand my point, no need to keep discussing you are too blind or uneducated in the field of economy.

I really dont say that people should pirate games, I am actually totaly againts it. My point is simply that the numbers they are showing us dont make sens. You cant believe that every gamer is going to buy everygame made. They have a limited amount of money and will only buy one or two games per month, MAXIMUM. You cant count on them to buy more, they just wont have time to play them anyways!

I totaly agree that we should promote mac games, but I also think that Apple should do their part by providing tools, API, etc to ease conversion and game creation!

Anyways, next title I am getting: Savage!
 

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Anyone remember this game?

I'm talking about FA-18 Hornet; a game that originally came out on the Amiga and was available for PCs and Macs as well.

To install, you had to find a word in the printed manual. The word call was randomly generated; ie if you installed it twice it would ask for a word found in a certain location on a different page than the first time.

Although it was still possible to pirate the game if a buddy came over with the manual in tow, a re-install was a hassle. Online piracy didn't really work; although there are workarounds most of them required you have handy or contact someone who actually owned the game by phone (you could use IM Chat, if the installer relinquished the control to the other app, which few do).

Game developers now use PDF format documentation, which defeats the system.

The economics are changing; (as the article notes) PC game sales are down and are expected to continue to fall. The emphasis with developers now is consoles (up 25% in 2003). In the end, the answer is really the same as it always was for Mac gaming: get a console.
 
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