[rodkin]

I'm rather shocked to learn that having Jaguar is a requirement to using Apple's new iTunes Music Store. Isn't that a little short-sighted, given that it prevents about 85% of Mac users from benefitting from this new service?

This reminds me of the Cinema Displays that could only be used with the most recent G4s with an ADC connection.

Am I being too cynical in believing that moves such as these are thinly-disguised attempts to force people who are otherwise happy with their OS 9, etc. to upgrade to the newest OS?

Wouldn't it be more profitable (both on monetary and goodwill levels) for Apple to make this service available to all Mac users? (For that matter, imagine if they made it available to everyone who owned a PC! They did, afterall, make a PC version of the iPod.)

Here's an analogy: GM comes up with a new additive that gives your car 100 miles per gallon. Except it only works in GM models that are 2001 or newer. Sure, lots of people will rush out to buy a newer GM car. But imagine how much dough they could rake in if the additive worked not only on older GMs, but all cars period!

By the way, I do have Jaguar, but I just felt compelled to make a point. Rant completed.

 

[Strongblade]

Actually, I suspect it's probably some kind of network-based protocol (like SAMBA) that might be required for proper functionality. I suspect it's really just code that was lacking from 10.1.x and earlier that ends up needing 10.2 for the Music Store.

iTunes 4 requires 10.1.5 itself.

 

[Kosh]

Apple has said that they have stopped updating MacOS 9 so I don't see why they would create new software (or updates) for MacOS 9... ie. iTunes 4. They can't keep on supporting both OSes. You want new features, you have to use the new OS. I don't see a problem with it. In fact as Strongblade said, the new feature probably requires other features not available in MacOS 9.

If you have to use MacOS 9 for some features (and I don't have a problem with this either), there is no reason you can't dual boot into MacOS X. I'm assuming since you have MacOS 9 that of course you have a dual-boot capable Mac.

[ April 30, 2003, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Kosh ]

 

[Brainstrained]

I don't want to say OS 9 is dead, because I still use it, need it, almost every day, but being realistic there is no upside for Apple to develop software for a shrinking market of OS 9 users.

Technical necessities and cost of making software backward compatible aside, Jobs wants people to migrate to OS X versions and newer Macs, and one way of doing that is providing features for OS X that won't be available on OS 9.

Is that forcing people to upgrade? Perhaps, but that's what software developers and hardware companies do to get people to repeatedly buy their product, they improve it. And there's nothing thinly disguised about that.

As for the iTunes store being available to all PC users, I think that will be a given. But Apple isn't going to give it all at once even if it was technically possible. Mac users get first crack, a little bonus because they are Mac users and customers should be rewarded before non-customers. And if PC users don't want to wait for their code to get written, they can buy a Mac. Otherwise, they'll just have to wait.

And don't kid yourself about GM. It's a car company, not a fuel additive company. The magic elixir would only work in GM cars until other automakers paid for the technology. Then GM would earn money on selling the additive and royalties on each non-GM car using GM technology.

 

[MACSPECTRUM]

Apple's migration to OS X would have much better received by the Apple community as a whole, if the dual-boot Macs were kept in production.

 

[VertiGoGo]

The road to progress was never travelled standing still. OS X is the future...so, let's keep it moving people.

Use OS 9 for legacy Apps you just can't live without and everyone else jump aboard the OS Xpress. Personally, I am happy to see OS 9 go the way of the dinosaurs. My Mac never crashed so much as when running that stupid OS.

Long live OS X...and OS XI, XII, etc!

 

[adagio]

I am happy to see OS 9 go the way of the dinosaurs

AMEN!!

If you absolutely need OS9 then have it on a separate drive/partition like I do. (hubby needs it).
I can't imagine anyone wanting to stick with that old thing.

 

[jfpoole]

Since the iTunes music store uses http, I'd imagine iTunes is using WebCore (or a modified version of WebCore) to display some of the UI. Since WebCore is only available on Jaguar, then it makes sense that the iTunes music store would only work on Jaguar.

Of course, this is conjecture on my part, and I'm not sure how I'd confirm or deny this (short of installing iTunes 4 on a Mac without Safari and seeing if it installed WebCore, too).

 

[ehMax]

Hey jfpoole, I think I read somewhere too that iTunes 4 uses WebCore... (Not really sure what that all is, but read it uses it)

 

[MACSPECTRUM]

If you absolutely need OS9 then have it on a separate drive/partition like I do. (hubby needs it).
I can't imagine anyone wanting to stick with that old thing.

Businesses, especially pre-press and printing still use and need OS 9 cause they make their money with their machines and the majority of these users use Quark and as we all know Quark is not, if ever will be, OS X native.

Also, faster and more powerful computers are needed to perform tasks as quickly in OS X as in OS 9 ( I appreciate the true multi-tasking abilities of OS X - where one could be doing a complicated operation in Photoshop and not have to wait while say going off to check your email or print a file or such), but OS X will come eventually.

Unfortunately Apple made an error in judgement by forcing OS X upon their most loyal customer base by discontinuing dual boot Macs.

OS 9 is here to stay for a while yet.

 

[adagio]

Looking at the big picture.. What percentage of mac users absolutely have to have OS9?
I'm betting it's fairly small.

I work with both photoshop and Painter (which is very CPU intensive) in OSX and can find little difference in speed now than when I was using OS9 and I only have a G4/400. Most of the nonsense of OSX being slow goes back to the 10.1 days. It's come a long way since then.

I believe most of the reluctance to move on is either the person is too cheap or too scared to learn something new!

 

[Dr.G.]

There was an interesting article in this morning's Globe and Mail business section re the Apple Music Store. A Merrill Lynch analyst was quoted as saying that even though this idea will not make money for Apple in the near future, it does keep them in the forefront of the "innovation" curve. Personally, I can see people considering getting a Mac as an additional home computer, to supplement the Wintel "boxes" that are currently in the home. Thus, one has access to the OS X/iLife experience/environment along with the "ball and chains" of Microsoft.

 

[CubaMark]

Adagio wrote:

Looking at the big picture.. What percentage of mac users absolutely have to have OS9?
I'm betting it's fairly small.

You'd be right. In my experience, whenever I'm called over to do some tutoring, or more rarely, troubleshooting on friends' Macs, I have been surprised to see that they're still running OS9. Most of them don't know about this "OS X" thing, and were very interested once I did a demo on my laptop. And these are people with machines more powerful than my little 300mhz G3!

Apple hasn't, in my opinion (oh my god I'm agreeing with Micro$oft), sufficiently promoted the OSX migration to its existing OS9 user base.

So, rather than sit in this forum, lovely though it is, I ask that all EhMacians pledge today to go forth and covert the masses. Bring our OS9 bretheren into the fold, and if you encounter any worshippers of the evil religion known as Windoze, convert 'em or smite 'em. No middle ground

(I should say that I do not dislike OS9, and continue to use it on a regular basis, to play Unreal Tournament, Quake III Arena, Deus Ex, etc., but 99% of my time is in X-land.)

M.

 

[ehMax]

Glowing review for the iTunes Music Store:

Walt Mossberg writes in the Wall Street Journal, "This week, Apple Computer launched the first really useful, and enjoyable, legal music service, the iTunes Music Store (www.applemusic.com). It's an enormous step forward, and the first online music service I can recommend. This new Apple service also is bound by some restrictions insisted upon by the big labels. But these limits are so much more liberal than the ones imposed by the earlier ventures that it's as if the other services never existed. Only Apple is selling major-label downloads that a typical consumer or family can freely use, in any common scenario, without running into restrictions."

 

[Dr.G.]

ehMax, I just read the same article. Hopefully, he will be asked to do a piece on this technology, along with the iPod, on MSNBC, in that he has a regular "bit" on this business station every so often. I always find it satisfying to see him discuss the excellence/ease of an Apple product on a MS-supported venue.

 

[gordguide]

I'm of the opinion that the labels needed Apple (or someone like Apple) in order to solve the download fiasco. They certainly can't do it themselves; each attempt by the labels has failed miserably.

The labels don't trust each other (ie a Sony music store can't get Warner Music titles) and in an attempt to attract consumers Bertelsman (spelling?) has paid out hundreds of millions of dollars in copyright infringement suits because they simply put paid download music online they didn't own the rights to. Without a company outside the industry, music-for-download will never get off the ground.

We might see it as a big thing for Apple, but it's a huge, monstrous, gigantic, colossal leap to solve the paralysis that continued to dog the music industry. When we read all about it in the future, I think it will be the labels that will look upon the Apple Music Store as a major turning point for their industry.

I do like the new focus Apple is placing on Windows users (or, computer users in general, regardless of the OS). It's hard to say how much UNIX played a role, but it seems Apple was pleasantly suprised as to how well the command-line community has embraced Apple's HW.

Along with the iPod, Apple seems to have taken a conceptual leap; they are actively placing their products and services smack in the middle of Windows users' radar screens. Hopefully the Wintel port of iTunes will further that. I don't think it went unnoticed by Microsoft that anyone who uses Windows and the Music Store will be required to run QuickTime6 (for the MPEG-4 codec). A handy little tie-in indeed.

I would be interested to know a bit more about the contractual arrangement Apple has made; if they were able to extract an exclusive license over a decent term, it's a great asset.

[ May 01, 2003, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: gordguide ]

 

[CubaMark]

For my part, I'm wondering just what's happening in the negotiations (if there are any) between Apple Computer and Apple Records. There was a legal tiff between the two (see this story ) and check out this quote:

the original Apple Records once sued Apple Computer for trademark infringement. (Apple Computer responded by creating a computer sound called "sosumi.") But Apple's flirtation with the record business shows how image-conscious the company could be. In the end, the company that wanted to sell records couldn't carry a tune.

(Ref: http://www.redherring.com/mag/issue42/chum.html)

Wow... things have sure changed since 1997....

Also check out the last item on this page

hmmmmm.

M.

 

[rodkin]

The rant in my original post seems to be moot now. I've just read a great article in Fortune (http://www.fortune.com/fortune/technology/articles/0,15114,447333,00.html) that indicates that the iTunes Music Store will be availale to Windoze users by the end of the year.

This is great news as it will (finally, for once) enable the broader world at large to benefit from Steve Jobs'/Apple's well-known talent for innovation.

The next step is to enable the Wintel world to use OS X, and other previously-proprietary software. (There have been recent posts on this.) After that, Steve/Apple can concentrate on taking over the world - something I look forward to.

 

[Kosh]

The next step is to enable the Wintel world to use OS X, and other previously-proprietary software. (There have been recent posts on this.) After that, Steve/Apple can concentrate on taking over the world - something I look forward to.

That is NEVER going to happen. The phrase "when hell freezes over" comes to mind.