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Dylann Roof, suspected gunman, caught after 9 churchgoers fatally shot in Charleston

A tip from a childhood friend helped police identify the suspected gunman in a shooting at a historic black church in Charleston, S.C., that left nine people dead, police say.

The suspect, Dylann Storm Roof, 21, of Lexington, S.C., was arrested during a traffic stop late Thursday morning in Shelby, N.C., and will be taken back to South Carolina.

* * *

The pastor of the church, state Senator Clementa Pinckney, was among those killed.

(CBC)


Charleston church shooting: Hate crime, gun crime? Does it matter?

Earlier today, U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch declared that acts such as the mass murder of worshippers in a black church in Charleston, allegedly by a man fond of white supremacist symbols, "have no place in a civilized society."

She's right, of course. But a reasonable case can be made that South Carolina is less a civilized society than a predator's paradise.

In a civilized society, people have some assurance that laws, and the agents who enforce those laws, will shield them from predators, protecting the weak being the essence of civilization.

But even leaving aside its ugly history of race relations — the Confederate flag still flies in front of the state capital in Columbia — South Carolina, like many other U.S. states, is a place where the love of guns trumps the protection of innocents.

* * *​

Dylann Storm Roof, the prime suspect in Wednesday's slaughter.

There he stands in his Facebook picture, posing in a bog somewhere, the flags of apartheid South Africa and the white-ruled former Rhodesia stitched ostentatiously onto his jacket.

News photo of the month, that one.



* * *​

One of the first news organizations to report Roof's birthday present was the Charleston Post and Courier, a newspaper that has a Pulitzer Prize to its credit.

On the front page today, just over the headline CHURCH ATTACK KILLS 9, it featured a peel-off advertisement for "Ladies Night" at the ATP Gun Shop and Range: "$30 gets you everything!" Gun, ammo, even a souvenir T-shirt.

The newspaper at least had the grace to apologize for that.

* * *​

Meanwhile, at the White House, the president was raising his civilized voice, once again.

"I've had to make comments like this too many times," Barack Obama told reporters, rather plaintively. He has spoken after mass murders at least six times during his presidency.

"At some point as a country, we have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries."

* * *​

Obama went on to say that "it is in our power to do something about it."

But it's actually not in his power to do anything about it. He tried, after the massacre of schoolchildren in Newtown, Conn., in 2012.

The country was outraged. Most Americans agreed with him. Then the National Rifle Association started making some calls and Congress punked out.

Why would anyone think it'll be any different this time?

(CBC)

And of course, you can always count on the NRA to make a calming, thoughtful comment when incidents such as these occur...

NRA board member blames deceased pastor for the deaths in the Charleston shooting

A National Rifle Association board member has blamed the political position of South Carolina State Senator — and pastor — Clementa Pinckney for the church massacre in Charleston that left nine people dead.

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NRA board member Charles Cotton has said that if Senator Pinckney had not voted to oppose legislation that would have allowed guns in South Carolina churches, “eight of his church members…might be alive,” Politico reported.​

(Independent UK)
 

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Obama is either deliberately lying or an addled fool with his contentions that: "At some point as a country, we have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries."

Read it and weep. The US is about the same as other countries in the world:

Actually, President Obama, Mass Killings Aren't Uncommon In Other Countries
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Rather than a quantitative take on the USA vs other countries, a qualitative analysis would be more revealing as to whether the USA is particularly deranged.

Mexico, for example, skews quantitative results by having frequent mass killings tied to the narco gangs and police violence against, in a recent case, teacher-students in the state of Guerrero.

Do things like school and church massacres happen more frequently in the USA than in other countries? - these are attacks on the innocent by (usually) individuals.

The breakdown matters, as the response by government / law & order establishment will vary according to the context.
 

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... these are attacks on the innocent by (usually) individuals.
Yes. The unarmed individuals.

You notice no one walks into an NRA meeting & starts firing weapons...
 

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President Obama, as a community agitator, has inexcusably taken his vocation to the highest office in the land. Individuals are responsible for their own actions, as is the shooter in this case. However, Obama's toxic presence is part of the current problem.

This incident should be a reason for the president to talk about support for mental illness. Instead he turns it to attacks on gun rights. Completely disingenuous.

Rather than a quantitative take on the USA vs other countries, a qualitative analysis would be more revealing as to whether the USA is particularly deranged.

Mexico, for example, skews quantitative results by having frequent mass killings tied to the narco gangs and police violence against, in a recent case, teacher-students in the state of Guerrero.

Do things like school and church massacres happen more frequently in the USA than in other countries? - these are attacks on the innocent by (usually) individuals.

The breakdown matters, as the response by government / law & order establishment will vary according to the context.
 

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Horse feathers & bull pucky.

The response will vary according to the politics du jour...

...the response by government / law & order establishment will vary according to the context.
 

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Yes. The unarmed individuals.

You notice no one walks into an NRA meeting & starts firing weapons...
I do not wish to make light of this situation, but I was surprised that no one in the church fired back.......hand guns seem to be everywhere in the U.S. and carried by everyone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I do not wish to make light of this situation, but I was surprised that no one in the church fired back.......hand guns seem to be everywhere in the U.S. and carried by everyone.
It's because, unlike NRA propaganda and the beliefs of folks like FeXL, having a gun in hand does not automatically make you a steely-eyed, cold, calculating, capable, one-man anti-terrorist SWAT team.

Human beings still have many of the eons of ingrained behavioural traits gumming up the works. As a species, we tend to panic in the face of situations like, say, a kid standing up in the middle of prayer service and begins unloading on the people around him. We run away.

Perhaps the mental disconnect of pro-gun types, who fancy themselves amazing bulletproof vigilantes should the situation ever arise, comes from their lack of belief in evolution - they dismiss those behavioural traits because, you know, 6,000 years isn't enough for such animalistic instincts to be an issue. :rolleyes:
 

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I do not wish to make light of this situation, but I was surprised that no one in the church fired back.......hand guns seem to be everywhere in the U.S. and carried by everyone.
I have a feeling that many church goers in the US, regardless of their race or religion, keep their guns at home while in a place of worship.

"NRA board member Charles Cotton blamed Clementa Pinckney, a victim of the shooting at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, for his own death. He also blamed Pinckney, the pastor of Emanuel AME and a state senator, for the deaths of the other eight people killed.

As a state senator, Pinckney supported tougher gun regulations and opposed a bill that would have allowed people to carry concealed guns in churches. On TexasCHLForum.com, a message board, Cotton wrote that “Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead. Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue.” "

NRA Board Member Blames Charleston Victim For His Own Death | ThinkProgress
 

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Marc and CubaMark, the common rebuttal is to arm individuals. In New Jersey it was arm the teachers, in Virginia it was if students had guns there would not have been an issue, in Colorado arm the staff. Now it will be arm the church. I am not a religious man but a Pastor asking for more gun control seems in line with his occupation to me ..... I don't think we will see a cultural shift in the U.S. on this even if a school, church, college, theatre is shot up everyday of the year ...... only a rise in gun sales I am afraid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm afraid you are most likely correct, Rps.

And then we have the brilliant social commentators at FoxNews, claiming this was an "Attack on Faith". After the police were labelling this attack as a hate crime, these asses intentionally misrepresent reality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHIQnjz9JV8

Un. F******g. Believable. Oh, wait, it's Fox. Par for the course....
 

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Turning your impotence on FOX News? Only took a few minutes.

And then we have the brilliant social commentators at FoxNews, claiming this was an "Attack on Faith". After the police were labelling this attack as a hate crime, these asses intentionally misrepresent reality.

Un. F******g. Believable. Oh, wait, it's Fox. Par for the course....
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Turning your impotence on FOX News? Only took a few minutes.
Rising quickly to the defence of FOX, MF. Sorry - are they off-limits? Should one not be critical of the media when they intentionally misrepresent facts? You seem quite emphatic that the media should be held to account in other threads...

I also cited the Charleton Post & Courier earlier for their bonehead move advertising gun sales on the same front page as the Charleston lead article - you took no umbrage to that, so I can only conclude that you hold FOX near and dear to your "heart" (note the quotes), despite your previous statements claiming you rarely / never watched it...

Why do you attack the messenger? Your obsession with me is becoming rather uncomfortable...

But of course, much easier to focus on me than on the topic of the thread... misdirection du jour....
 

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Marc and CubaMark, the common rebuttal is to arm individuals. In New Jersey it was arm the teachers, in Virginia it was if students had guns there would not have been an issue, in Colorado arm the staff. Now it will be arm the church. I am not a religious man but a Pastor asking for more gun control seems in line with his occupation to me ..... I don't think we will see a cultural shift in the U.S. on this even if a school, church, college, theatre is shot up everyday of the year ...... only a rise in gun sales I am afraid.
Rps, I trust that you don't think I was suggesting that if all the people were armed in that church that the shooting would not have taken place. What Mr. Cotton of the NRA said was reprehensible—even for someone with the hierarchy of the NRA.
 

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I credit you for going after another newspaper first, since that takes a little more effort than simplly wailing F-O-X-X-X-X.

My point is, why attack the media at all during this ordeal? That's just a sideshow.

Rising quickly to the defence of FOX, MF. Sorry - are they off-limits? Should one not be critical of the media when they intentionally misrepresent facts? You seem quite emphatic that the media should be held to account in other threads...

I also cited the Charleton Post & Courier earlier for their bonehead move advertising gun sales on the same front page as the Charleston lead article - you took no umbrage to that, so I can only conclude that you hold FOX near and dear to your "heart" (note the quotes), despite your previous statements claiming you rarely / never watched it...

Why do you attack the messenger? Your obsession with me is becoming rather uncomfortable...

But of course, much easier to focus on me than on the topic of the thread... misdirection du jour....
Your obsession with me is becoming rather uncomfortable...
It's not you--it's the gabble that you post. I would respond even if it were posted anonymously.
 

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It's because, unlike NRA propaganda and the beliefs of folks like FeXL, having a gun in hand does not automatically make you a steely-eyed, cold, calculating, capable, one-man anti-terrorist SWAT team.
You know nothing about my beliefs. You have illustrated that clearly time after time. And, when challenged to clarify what you perceive my beliefs to be, you tuck tail & go into hiding for another week until the smoke clears.

If you don't know, ask. Otherwise, don't put words in my mouth.

The problem with progressives such as yourself is that you think that firearms have to be waving in the air or firing to be a deterrent. They don't. The mere presence of a firearm, safely tucked away in a holster, will deter violence. It doesn't need to be drawn.

An armed society is a polite society.

Human beings still have many of the eons of ingrained behavioural traits gumming up the works. As a species, we tend to panic in the face of situations like, say, a kid standing up in the middle of prayer service and begins unloading on the people around him. We run away.
Some do, some don't. You simply can't go painting the whole of society with that great big brush.

Perhaps the mental disconnect of pro-gun types, who fancy themselves amazing bulletproof vigilantes should the situation ever arise, comes from their lack of belief in evolution - they dismiss those behavioural traits because, you know, 6,000 years isn't enough for such animalistic instincts to be an issue. :rolleyes:
Speaking of mental disconnect, Mr. Amateur Psychologist, you've stumbled admirably about your point regarding the flight response but you have completely ignored the fight response.

Not everybody runs...
 

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And Obama said that Benghazi was triggered by a youtube video.

My point is, you need to independently verify everything, not limited to but including the original police statements.

Does it make sense that Roof, who, according to online reports, had black friends, would commit a hate crime against blacks?

I'm not defending anybody here but I find that a stretch.

After the police were labelling this attack as a hate crime, these asses intentionally misrepresent reality.
 

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Possible Republican presidential candidate, Dr. Benjamin Carson:

The heart of the matter is not guns. The heart of the matter is the heart, the heart and soul of people. This young man didn't wake up yesterday and suddenly turn into a maniac. Clearly there have been things in his background, in his upbringing that led to the type of mentality that would allow him to do something like this. And one of the things that I think we really need to start concentrating on in this country is once again instilling the right kinds of values, particularly in our young people. We're so busy giving away all of our values and principles for the sake of political correctness that we have people floating around out there with no solid foundation of beliefs.
Yep.
 

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Possible Republican presidential candidate, Dr. Benjamin Carson:
Sadly, he won't get elected.

American society as a whole can't handle that kind of honesty.
 
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