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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The only PC I use is at the office and the IT people there look after its health.

I just came across this comment on another site

Cleaned friend's computer this afternoon - 85 spyware; hotbar, 2 trojans and a few more nasties. Oh, and I downloaded 79 critical Microsoft update patches. Did a bunch of uninstals, did full scans of the computer; downloaded and used CCleaner - and I think I got it all cleaned out. What a day - came home around midnite and am totally washed out. Anyway, this is a good example of why people have sick computers.
Is this really typical of a PC with Windows?
 

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The only time i find it really bad is on mates PC that know nothing about using a PC.. the hubby surfs porn, the teen kids download endless proggies.. and it all lead to crap on the PC...
my PC is kept clean cause i know what to do....lol
 

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It's typical for a PC being run by a novice computer user.

Novice computer users don't know that they need to keep their spyware / anti-virus components up-to-date, and they need to be run daily.

Novice computer users don't know how to uninstall bloatware.

Novice computer users aren't aware of intelligent tools like CCleaner.

Owning a computer is like having a kid. If you don't parent it, it's going to turn out to be a huge mess. They require daily maintenance.
 

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It's typical for a PC being run by a novice computer user.

Novice computer users don't know that they need to keep their spyware / anti-virus components up-to-date, and they need to be run daily.

Novice computer users don't know how to uninstall bloatware.

Novice computer users aren't aware of intelligent tools like CCleaner.

Owning a computer is like having a kid. If you don't parent it, it's going to turn out to be a huge mess. They require daily maintenance.
Nor should they have too! I'm not a novice user, and I don't want to have to do that either. I stopped supporting friends and families who use Windows for this very reason. If they insist on buying/using a Windows PC despite my advice to get a Mac, then they can deal with the mess.
 

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Nor should they have too!
Why? Cars need tuneups. Houses need repairing. Kids need doctor's visits. Everything requires a certain degree of care and maintenance. Computers are no different.

I'm not a novice user, and I don't want to have to do that either.
If only we lived in a world of "I don't wanna".

I stopped supporting friends and families who use Windows for this very reason.
Ok. I support my family on these issues. Friends are on their own. To each his own.

If they insist on buying/using a Windows PC despite my advice to get a Mac, then they can deal with the mess.
Yes, which is what this thread is about. Windows PCs are a mess, and need daily maintenance.
 

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Nor should they have too! I'm not a novice user, and I don't want to have to do that either. I stopped supporting friends and families who use Windows for this very reason. If they insist on buying/using a Windows PC despite my advice to get a Mac, then they can deal with the mess.
I agree with madgunde. We've gotten to the point where everyone wants a computer and they are marketed like toasters, yet we have folks like gt telling us that unless we're pretty special we shouldn't own one.

Computers are the only commodity where the end users are taught that if something goes wrong it's the user's fault.

When your new car breaks down on the way home from the salesroom, nobody is going to tell you it's your fault - if they did, they wouldn't sell many cars. Yet, when you buy a new computer and plug it in, you're at fault when it's full of spyware by the end of the day.

No other industry would get away with selling expensive crap that breaks immediately upon plugging it in.

The industry needs to fix itself, but there is no incentive to do so because people buy into the "I must be stupid because my computer is broken"

I don't know what it will take, but maybe it's time for a class-action lawsuit of ginormous proportions.

/end rant

Margaret
 

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I'm with Margaret and madgunde. No one should have to put the amount of time and effort into a PC to keep it running. Microsoft could have and should have taken steps to make the experience far better for users. It is not the users fault, it is poor design.
 

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krs, I helped a neighbor clean his computer. 365 spyware removals and 3 virus scans later it was ready to go. He was amazed at how fast it now ran. With only 512Mb of RAM, I was surprised that it worked at all with all the spyware that was on his computer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm with Margaret and madgunde as well.
That's why I have a Mac and had since the IIsi days and everyone in my family has a Mac. They are spread out in three different cities and I wouldn't have a hope maintaining their computers if it was a PC.
Family is more on the artistic side, maintaining a PC themselves would be to complex. Off hand I can't think of any other electronic tool where you're expected to know the nitty gritty insides to be able to maintain it. When people start to talk about registry, my ears just close.

The other thing that bugs me is software that doesn't do what is advertised, and I don't mean just bugs. Also seems to be more a PC issue. You essentially have no recourse other than to get an identical replacement which of course has the same faults.
 

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Well you can chalk it up to deceptive marketing, mainly from M$.

We've all seen the ads about how simple and carefree using your new Vista or any other Winbloz machine is going to be, right? I mean come on you don't really think M$ is going to send along a 67 page guide on how to really use your new computer do you? Does the crack dealer on the corner hand out a leaflet outlining all the health risks and damage you are going to do to yourself when you fire up that rock? ;)

Funny that Mr. Dell uses Linux on his own personal laptop...:D
 

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Ah, if only we lived in a world where kids didn't need to wash their hands before every meal, or brush their teeth before bed.

If we only lived in a world where kitchen counters cleaned themselves.

If we only lived in a world where cars checked their own tire pressure.

If we only lived in a world where laundry washed intself.

If we only lived in a world where PCs protected themselves against every possible hacker threat on the Internet. Oh, wait, I think you can buy software for that.

When you buy a car, they don't teach you to drive.
When you buy a house, they don't teach you to vacuum.
When you have a child, they don't teach you to feed him veggies.
When you buy a computer, they don't teach you that additional software is needed to keep it in tip-top shape.

Yes, Windows shares some of the blame for having a shoddy product. No, Windows is not to blame for tons of spyware on your system. That's user error.

It's like blaming the person who built your house when burglers break in.

You never think twice about locking your house or car doors. Why do people assume computers can automatically protect themselves against all the potential threats in the world?
 

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Is this really typical of a PC with Windows?
That is surprisingly common and guytoronto is right, if people would spend just a little bit of time familiarizing themselves with computers they could avoid a lot of problems.

I've been running XP since it came out and have had no viruses and no major spyware issues (some doubleclick cookies and the like that are found by spyware checkers) but that isn't the case with most other people who have asked me to look at their computers.
 

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You never think twice about locking your house or car doors. Why do people assume computers can automatically protect themselves against all the potential threats in the world?
Because they are marketed like toasters. If the sign in BestBuy listed all the crap you have to do to keep your computer "safe" along with the price, nobody would buy the silly things.

No, they didn't teach me to drive when I bought a car, but I had to prove that I could drive before I could get a license. If people had to prove that they could operate a computer before they could take one out of the store, you'd be the only one that owns one.

And if you take your car in for a tune-up and oil change, the mechanic doesn't make you feel like it's your fault that that the maintenance is necessary and there are laws governing how much they can charge you for the work.

When an ordinary person's computer breaks down and they ask for advice the first thing they here is "well if you were doing what you're supposed to......."

And there's a reason the PC repair man drives a Lincoln Navigator and the Mac repair man drives a 20-year-old rust bucket.

Margaret
 

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I'm also with the with the Margaret and madgunde crowd.

While it is true that users could be more active in preventing many of these issues I feel the workload in doing so is beyond what should be required for something often used for many hours per day.

I do almost nothing to our Macs, even the ones attacked (rather than used!) by my kids. We simply don't have issues. I do help neighbours and friends, who often assume our lack of issues is due to my knowledge. It's not (although I have had PCs and kept them clean) - it's due to OS X and a teeny amount of common sense.

The problem with Windows is that the requirements for user management go beyond common sense. That's inexcusable for a mature product.
 

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Computers are the only commodity where the end users are taught that if something goes wrong it's the user's fault.

When your new car breaks down on the way home from the salesroom, nobody is going to tell you it's your fault - if they did, they wouldn't sell many cars. Yet, when you buy a new computer and plug it in, you're at fault when it's full of spyware by the end of the day.

No other industry would get away with selling expensive crap that breaks immediately upon plugging it in.
I wouldn't agree that we always blame the user. If it's bad RAM, a bad LCD or bad plastics, or bad batteries, we blame them and tell you to take it back.

Now of course when the user goes and buys a 42" TV with a resolution of 1366 x 768 and expects monitor quality, we have to explain to the user the expectations are unrealistic. Or if the user buys a PC, and then connects to every pirated software site without protection and gets his PC infected on the way, we blame the user.

The one thing I do hate, though, in today's society, is this idea that everything must be computerized and everything is better if it's done by a computer. Cooking recipes don't have to be stored in a computer, if you like having them in a book or on cards that's perfectly fine. Fridges don't need computers or TVs.
 

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Keeping a computer clean is pretty easy once you know how to do it. It's the ones who don't know that have problematic computers. Even once you explain it to them, the following happens. They don't own a legal version of Windows XP nor do they have that original illegal CD they installed it from anymore so the Windows XP they have that's damaged beyond repaired can't be wiped out and you break out the bad news that Windows XP is hard to pirate and even if you do find one, it won't be genuine and you can't download security updates etc. and they'll have to shell out a few hundred for a legal version and they get pissed off at you. Oh then they can't give up their Limewire/Kazaa/miscellaneous other spyware supported software so even when you clean their computer it's gonna come right back. I always do a complimentary first service for my friends but charge them $75/hour for subsequent cleanups because they can't change their pirating ways. If you're gonna get greedy you're gonna get dinged.
 

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Good one dona83! That reminds me of a few friends' stories...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yes, Windows shares some of the blame for having a shoddy product. No, Windows is not to blame for tons of spyware on your system. That's user error.

It's like blaming the person who built your house when burglers break in.

You never think twice about locking your house or car doors. Why do people assume computers can automatically protect themselves against all the potential threats in the world?
Step back a bit................

How is spyware on your system user error?
I buy the product, unpack it, plug it in and use it.
If it's a computer, I basically get two totally different results.
With Windows I have to fiddle with it for hours to even get it to run properly (delete all the adware that comes as part of the OS, find drivers to download etc) and then after I'm on the net for only an hour, I end up with a ton of spyware and adware and viruses unless I have the foresight to buy or download all sorts of additional bits and pieces.
With Mac OS it basically works right out of the box with very little additional effort - almost like a toaster. Even on the toaster you have to set the amount of browning.

I'm actually having a lot of problems with switchers because they have had the Windows mindset for years and they just can't get their head around a computer that works out of the box. You see it even here on ehMac with the questions that often come up.

It's like blaming the person who built your house when burglers break in.

You never think twice about locking your house or car doors. Why do people assume computers can automatically protect themselves against all the potential threats in the world?
Mmmh - houses and cars come with doors and locks standard, no additional charge or installation required. Windows is like a house without doors or locks, you need to add those separately - and then they don't always work - now you also need a cleaning lady every day rather than once a week (actually once in many many weeks) with the Mac.
 
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