iPod Touch VS iPhone - debate

16574 Views 46 Replies 22 Participants Last post by free ipod touch, Oct 10, 2007

a7mc

Discussion Starter · Sep 18, 2007

Well now that the free software unlock is out, I thought it might be worth having a discussion about the iPod Touch and the iPhone. Especially since I have had the pleasure of using both of them. I'll contribute two main comments on the topic:

1- Software Unlock was NOT EASY! I followed 4-5 different sets of instructions, I "unlocked" the phone 10-12 times in a variety of different ways, and it still would not work on Rogers. Although the unlock was apparently successful, it would register "no service" when I had my Rogers Sim in it. Maybe this is just an issue with iPhones bought in the past week or so? Don't know... but I do know that the GUI unlock did not work, nor did the long non-gui method. It took me a LONG time to figure out what was going wrong, and finally found a complicated way of fixing it by ssh'ing into the phone and copying an eep file. Was it worth it? I think so. But I've got really strong tech skills and it took a lot for me to get it going. I don't see the average person getting this to work. Maybe the iPod touch is a better solution for many.

2- The iPod Touch in INCREDIBLY thin... it really amazed me. And it felt really solid despite the thin size. The menu was just as responsive as the iPhone. And yes, the antenna block is just as ugly in person as it is in the pictures.

However, I really don't like the feel of the new iPods. I used to own an iPod photo before it got stolen, and loved the size and rounded design. The newer flat top iPods (the new Touch is almost identical in shape and size to the old iPod Video) just don't feel right in my hand. The iPhone feels a LOT like my old iPod Photo, so I am VERY happy with it. It feels just right in my hands. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

A7

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psxp

· #2 · Sep 19, 2007

nice comments.

I decided to go with an iphone as the price is almost the same. I use about 6GB currently for music on my 30GB gen 5 iPod, and dont currently use videos. Too long to convert from divx to mp4 format. Maybe I will put a couple snowbaord videos ones on an Iphone during the ski season. ..

I am going to try the iPhone as the comparison on ilounge.com slammed the iTouch's screen as not being as good as the iPhone. I also used an iPhone and was surprised it was not too bad in size.

The silver metal backing on theiTouch is a turnoff. I dont want to use a case but I dont want the device scratched up.

Also, the lack of some apps on the iTouch - ie email etc makes the iPhone more attractive. Now, if it only had more memory

AdamS

· #3 · Sep 19, 2007

I've been debating this a lot lately, but ultimately I think I'm going with the iPhone.

Apple has done a pretty good job of neutering the touch and reducing a lot of the potential that it had. From all the reviews I've read so far, they all seem to be thinking that Apple deliberately did this in order to leverage the appeal of the iPhone. This doesn't make much sense though for the rest of the world that can't even buy it.

Sure, it's great to have the nice thin size with the touch, but overall I like the design of the iPhone much better. I'm sick of having to deal with the reflective aluminum back surface of the iPod, and really can't understand why Apple chose to bring it back with the touch. My only thought is that it's cheaper than the backing on the iPhone.

wonderings

· #4 · Sep 19, 2007

AdamS said:
I've been debating this a lot lately, but ultimately I think I'm going with the iPhone.

Apple has done a pretty good job of neutering the touch and reducing a lot of the potential that it had. From all the reviews I've read so far, they all seem to be thinking that Apple deliberately did this in order to leverage the appeal of the iPhone. This doesn't make much sense though for the rest of the world that can't even buy it.

I am ready to buy an iPod touch and was curious as to what you mean about Apple neutering a lot of the potential, any links or care to explain?

thanks

a7mc

Discussion Starter · #5 · Sep 19, 2007

Wonderings... If you read the iLounge article, you'll get what AdamS means. Basically, I'm guessing he means the lack of bluetooth, poor battery performance, no email, and apparently "downgraded" materials. A lot of people seem to think the chrome rim on the iPhone looks nicer, but personally, I like the charcoal grey of the iPod Touch much better.

I just discovered one other neat difference between the two. The iPod Touch does not have the "ringer volume up and down" buttons like on the iPhone, presumably because there's no ringer. However, I just discovered that I can use those volume buttons to control the volume of my music when the iPhone is in iPod mode. That is a HUGE advantage for me, as it means I can adjust the volume while the iPhone is in my pocket without having to look at the screen.

A7

psxp

· #6 · Sep 19, 2007 (Edited)

The iphone is smaller than I was expecting.
Make sure you read the iLounge article. They are pretty good at reviewing products.

One bad thing is noted with the iphone is that for in car use, there may be some noise from the GSM radio coming through to the dashboard. Oh, and with the iPhone I will need to grab a headphone adapter from ebay to use my headphones of choice. Not a big deal..

normcorriveau

· #7 · Sep 19, 2007

I've been debating this myself. I actually have an iTouch on order but I've been considering canceling the order and getting an iPhone. It still seems risky to me to get and use an iPhone (especially considering what Jobs said yesterday in the UK about stopping hackers). I know you can use an iPhone without unlocking it but how far is Apple going to go to stop the unlocks? Could we be left with a $400 brick unless we keep it at 1.02 and never upgrade iTunes beyond what is available now (which at some point would mean losing the ability to purchase songs on the iTMS)?

I'd be very tempted to unlock if I got one since I'm already on Rogers.

Norm

psxp

· #8 · Sep 19, 2007

I wouldnt underestimate the hackers. They will open the iTouch up to run the missing apps, I am sure. I am sure they will get by all the apple firmware stuff.

You may have to wait a few weeks, but it wont be impossible. Look at the PSP - the hacking community has been moding the firmware for that many releases over.

GrapeApe

· #9 · Sep 19, 2007

I too am having this dilemma right now...to buy an iTouch or an iPhone.

The hacking issues aside, the things that are more pressing to me are the physical differences.

The 'clicker' on the iPhone earbuds has been praised as an ingenious device, yet it is not on the iTouch.

The iPhone also has the physical volume buttons for easy adjustment without having to use the touchsreen.

The iPhone also has Bluetooth and EDGE, though EDGE is less of an issue for me.

The iTouch's shiny metallic backside has also been viewed as a step back for those who don't want to claok their electronics in another half inch of protective casing.

Finally the iPhone only has 8Gb, whereas the iTouch has 16.

I am so torn right now, why can't they just make it easier.

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iMatt

· #10 · Sep 19, 2007

No hardware volume control
No way to enter notes, calendar events, etc. (Safari doesn't count, in my book)
Webmail only
Screen possibly not up to snuff (I'd want to see this for myself before stating it more strongly)

...which all means I'm definitely skipping this generation of the Touch.

Doesn't necessarily mean I'm getting an iPhone, either. All such gadgets fall into the realm of pure luxury for me at the moment, so I'm going to hang onto my cash and maybe get a Classic if my iPod dies.

There's a good chance the iPhone will be even cheaper by the time it's officially available in Canada, so it could be an option by then, but like a lot of people I just don't want to mess with unofficial mods. Not for legal reasons, but because of the inevitable hassles, including an endless cycle of software updates designed to undo many hacks.

Demosthenes X

· #11 · Sep 19, 2007

iMatt said:
No way to enter notes, calendar events, etc. (Safari doesn't count, in my book)
Webmail only

These sort of comments and complaints make me wonder a little bit - of course the Touch has been "neutered" compared to the iPhone, of course it does not have all the features... it's an iPod, with the really cool ability to also surf the internet. If you want a portable music and video player, then you buy the iPod.

If you want a PDA, then buy the iPhone. But don't lament the lack of features on the iPod - that's why Apple offers the iPhone. And please don't complain that they do not offer the iPhone in Canada - they are working on it.

Perhaps what Apple needs to do is release the iPhone in Canada. Once Rogers has thousands of customers clamoring for them to support it, with the devices in their hands, they'll actually get around to doing it...

iMatt

· #12 · Sep 20, 2007

Demosthenes X said:
These sort of comments and complaints make me wonder a little bit - of course the Touch has been "neutered" compared to the iPhone, of course it does not have all the features... it's an iPod, with the really cool ability to also surf the internet. If you want a portable music and video player, then you buy the iPod.

If you want a PDA, then buy the iPhone. But don't lament the lack of features on the iPod - that's why Apple offers the iPhone.

You make a good point, and I do understand the need to differentiate the two products, but the Touch is hobbled just a little too much for my liking.

No camera, no microphone, no speaker, no Edge, no bluetooth, no weather/stock/map etc. widgets -- all fine, and all differentiation based on hardware and networking. I could live with webmail-only, so I'll agree that's a petty gripe.

But including a read-only calendar app and omitting a simple text editor seems just silly. If they don't want people complaining about the PDA it almost is, they should have left out the calendar altogether, IMO.

And omitting a hardware volume control from a touchscreen media player seems more like a bad oversight than a defensible form of differentiation.

An Old Soul

· #13 · Sep 20, 2007

Hands down the iPhone. I can't believe there's even debate. For the price, it's well worth the extra $$ for the added features and style of the iPhone. The only question, regarding the iPod aspect, is disk space. But even at 16GB, its not enough for me to have my whole library.

I decided to keep my 60GB iPod Photo which is in great condition as my store-all (which usually plays in my car) and just put my favs on the iPhone.

I've got 72 albums, hundreds of photos synced, 3rd party apps and still 2.5GB of space left.

Of course, it's easier to get your hands on a touch. But the forbidden iPhone in Canada makes having one all the sweeter!

psxp

· #14 · Sep 20, 2007

An Old Soul said:
I've got 72 albums, hundreds of photos synced, 3rd party apps and still 2.5GB of space left.

Of course, it's easier to get your hands on a touch. But the forbidden iPhone in Canada makes having one all the sweeter!

Is that all on your iPhone??? sweet...

yeah, the other neat thing is being one of the few canadians with an Iphone..

Demosthenes X

· #15 · Sep 20, 2007

iMatt said:
But including a read-only calendar app and omitting a simple text editor seems just silly. If they don't want people complaining about the PDA it almost is, they should have left out the calendar altogether, IMO.

And omitting a hardware volume control from a touchscreen media player seems more like a bad oversight than a defensible form of differentiation.

The second point we're agreed on - from what I hear, you cannot use the touch screen with gloves on. So on a cold day, adjusting volume and songs is going to be a major pain.

A text editor I can live without, but a read-only calendar app, while useful, seems silly. It would be very easy, and make it infinitely more useful, to add in the ability to input data and make the Touch a VERY desirable unit for any college student, or any business exec who does not need email/phone capability.

On the plus side, that is something that can be fixed by a simple software update if Apple deems it appropriate. The lack of tactile buttons is a more grievous, and more difficult to correct, error.

Over all, though, I think I agree with Old Soul: the iPhone offers far greater flexibility for a modest price increase. And if one is willing to wait, I've little doubt we will see a 16GB iPhone in the future.

tardis67

· #16 · Sep 20, 2007

I had ordered an iPod Touch the moment is was annouced. I got caught in the incorrect information being posted on Apple.ca that I could enter Calendar events on the device. They changed the website on Sep 10 to remove that feature.

I cancelled my order shortly after. I've accepted that I'll just wait for the iPhone to get my PDA functionality.

Sorry Apple, you just lost $449.

iMatt

· #17 · Sep 20, 2007

Demosthenes X said:
Over all, though, I think I agree with Old Soul: the iPhone offers far greater flexibility for a modest price increase.

But that's the hitch, isn't it? If you're like me and you have a cheap voice plan for your cell, and like it that way, an iPhone would represent a fairly significant added monthly cost.

I have other reasons for not wanting an iPhone, so in my case at least including a bit more software on the Touch isn't going to lose them an iPhone sale.

If it turns out to be easy to hack the Touch to allow entry of notes and calendar events, and the hacks aren't wiped out with each software update, I might reconsider. But I'm not optimistic: with its new handheld devices, Apple really seems keen on going back to its old closed-system ways.

Demosthenes X

· #18 · Sep 20, 2007

The obvious solution would seem to be to get a voice-only plan on the iPhone, which will be exactly what you are paying now... once the iPhone is officially released Rogers might make you pay for a data plan with it, but with the software unlock you can put any Rogers sim into it...

fyrefly

· #19 · Sep 20, 2007

iMatt said:
There's a good chance the iPhone will be even cheaper by the time it's officially available in Canada

I think you mean if it's ever officially available in Canada. 'Cause at this rate, Rwanda's gonna get an iPhone before Rogers releases it's choke-hold on expensive data rates and monthly plans.

AdamS

· #20 · Sep 20, 2007

I think the above posters pretty much summed up what I meant when I said they 'neutered' the touch. There's some clear deliberate attempts by Apple to make it less functional than the iPhone, just as the iLounge review mentions.

While I agree with this from the standpoint of differentiating the product lines, I don't agree with Apple spending development effort on things like removing the calendar entry feature just for the sake of limiting functionality in a product.

And I won't support a company's product that was designed with such intentional (software and hardware) limitations.

The iPhone will forever be hacked. What a lot of you are forgetting is that you have to manually update the software on your iPhone for it to pull in the software update. The fact that it's already been hacked and unlocked at the current version of the firmware means that, at the very least, we'll have iPhones running the 1.0 software unlocked for as long as we want.

Sure, you're likely going to have jump through some hoops to get it working in the coming software updates, but they'll likely be minimal since there is a *massive* hacking community behind making sure that this product stays open, unofficially anyway.

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