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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have an interesting thought. I am currently waiting for a 17" alPB and a 23" cinema display which is besides the point other than the fact that I don't want to wait to get my first mac so I thought I might invest in the 17" imac in the meantime which I could then sell or give to my parents once I got the 17" PB (*if* I wanted to infact get rid of it...lol.)

Here was my major issue with the 17" imac...it's "one" piece and unchangable (other than ram). That is a major issue for me because I am used to being able to swap parts to upgrade or when parts fail because I'm on a pc desktop.

Basically you are "stuck" with this one configuration which might be fine for most people but I do heavy graphics work and wouldn't want to be "stuck" with a machine that I couldn't change (upgrade to match current technologies/programs) or fix if it was "broken". (we all know how fast technology changes and can't predict it or when it will die on you!)

BUT! Having said that. I just realized something! If I get the applecare protection plan for it that makes my warranty last for 3 years total...THEREFORE...If anything goes wrong (which within 3 years it's bloody likey) like a noisey hard drive or fan or dead pixels or bad video card...then they HAVE to fix it right? Which either means replacing that broken part OR if then can't REPLACE the broken part (because it's an all in one thing) then wouldn't they have to just give you a new machine?!?! If your machine goes down after say a year or two...that means you'll get the latest version/technology doesn't it?!?!??!

I THINK I'M ONTO SOMETHING HERE!! SOMEONE PROVE ME RIGHT OR WRONG!!! Is this too good to be true?!
 

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I think the short answer to your question is no. Buying AppleCare isn't much different than buying an extended warrantee on a car. It covers you against defects or failed parts for three years. Apple, like car makers, keeps lots of spare parts on hand so that they can service your machine for the duration of the warrantee (and likely well after that point). Sure, there are exceptions to this rule (e.g., people who tell of how Apple replaced a wonky machine that was under warrantee), but these are cases when a product is clearly defective and it's cheaper for them to replace the thing than to go on searching for what's wrong.

Having said all of that, you suggested in your post that you feel it is likely that your computer will fail within three years. I can only relate my own experiences--my previous iMac ran every day for nearly three years without so much as a hiccup (except for the time that my carelessness resulted in a fried Print Centre...but let's not go there). My point is that there is a hardware quality with Macs that you just won't find with most PC clones. That's just my experience...your mileage may vary.

As for your other point about not being able to add new parts as new products hit the market, I'm wondering why you didn't consider buying a PowerMac since they are eminently customizable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
cost and functionality are the reasons for your last question patrick.

really I want this imac to act as the second home machine so my husband can do some browsing etc... once I finally get my powerbook in...

or so I could give it to my technologically impaired wonderful parents as an all in one for surfing and photos etc...

...and the fact that you get the cpu and monitor together is an elegant solution. The price and functionality can't be beat.

The thing is I'm tired of waiting for my poewrbook to arrive, and I'd like to be able to start working on a mac asap. The only issue with that is that *I* want to keep myself working on ONE MACHINE ONLY! Right now I have a PC desktop and laptop setup...my desktop is quicker than my laptop so i try to do all my work there but frequently i have to transfer files and work on my laptop when i'm at school. I'm tired of trying to keep two computers configured with all the right settings as well as keeping track of most current files. I figured avoiding a G4 tower would be the best way to not get sucked into doing that again. (since I can upgrade the tower, before long my powerbook will *feel* insufficient.)
 

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Pamela,

According to this link from XLR8YourMac.com, the 17" iMac can be modified via software (see below) to support monitor "spanning". This means that if you at some point want to add a larger external monitor to complement the 17" it comes with, you can do so, and have both displays independently functional (if you've never tried it, it's a hoot! and a great boost to productivity).

With FireWire, you can add larger external hard drives. With AirPort Extreme you already have wicked-fast wireless. Bluetooth is there for your cellphone / PDA sync.

What else might you want to "upgrade" in the future? The only thing that I can think of that would be impossible is a newer graphics card... it comes with 64mb of DDR VRAM, which is nothing to sneeze at...

Lastly, three years from now hardware prices will be lower and the performance curve even higher, so I wouldn't fret too much. Buy the iMac. You'll really like it (this from a fellow who's been spoiled with one for the past few weeks).

:D
M.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
Reader Reports on the Firmware Mod: (most recent first)

iMac G4 17" LCD (Geforce4MX) Reports: The 2nd email from an iMac G4 17" owner recently (see the one just below this for a more detailed report.)

" hello, following the instructions of a "subpage of http://macparts.de/ibook." for modifying the OpenFirmware of my iMac 800/17" LCD, now monitor- spanning works fine without any problems; the iMac display works with its "native" high-resolution, and the 19"CRT works up to 1280X1024/75Hz in million colours - under MacOS X.
-- Best regards , Jens Olsson "

Another iMac 17" Report (from the Dec. 3rd, 2002 www.xlr8yourmac.com news page)

" Hi Mike, I thought I'd pass along the great news about monitor-spanning on my iMac 17" 800 MHz, GeForce4 MX under Mac OS X. It works!
Eric Doyle
(he included a copy of an email sent to the author of the ibook mod - edited to correct a prev. typo.)
Subject: Monitor-spanning works on my iMac 17" LCD under Mac OS X!
Thank you, thank you!

The iBook monitor-spanning Open Firmware modification also works on my iMac 17" 800 MHz, GeForce4 MX. I was looking around in Open Firmware on my iMac and noticed that there are several words at the root of the device tree that represent some relevant constants:

no_strip_timing -- 10 hex, 16 decimal
allow_desktop_mode -- 8
allow_headless_boot -- 4
force_mirroring -- 2
default_mirroring -- 1

It appears that the value of the " graphic-options" property is derived from a bitwise OR of a combination of these values. The default value for this property on my iMac is 12 hex. Therefore, to disable the force_mirroring option, it seems that all one really needs to do is turn off the second least significant bit, i.e., change 12 hex to 10 hex.

This means (at least for my iMac) that 00000000 in the original intructions could be replaced by 00000010 so that the line reads:
00000010 " graphic-options" get-my-property 2drop !

Either way, it works on my iMac 17" LCD system. Quartz Extreme seems to work fine on both displays. DVDs can be played on fine on either screen. This definitely extends its flexibility as true "digital hub", something I intend to use extensively for my own projects.
Thank you for discovering the original modification! It has been a great help.
Eric Doyle "
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Cubamark!! I had been wondering about this monitor spanning with the 17" but figured it wouldn't be possible!!!! THIS IS SO EXCITING TO HEAR!!! You are talking about an extended desktop, no? I am ordering the 23" cinema display to go with my laptop so I WILL have a screen to span to if necessary.

Good point on the firewire harddrive (can you disable the one in the imac if necessary?...say it's too loud or gets too loud for ones taste and I want completely turn it off and replace it with one of this external firewire drives you speak of...)

hhmmm...do I spoil myself by buying this imac in the meantime or do I just sit and wait endlessly for my PB? Decisions Desicions.

p.s. Cubamark...can I ask what you use your imac for and can you give a quick blurb on how it's performance (good and bad) is working for you (I have heard about fuzzy fonts?!?!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
oh yeah...and could you also talk about the level of noise it makes? I've heard then can be a little noisy??!
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pamela:
hhmmm...do I spoil myself by buying this imac in the meantime or do I just sit and wait endlessly for my PB? Decisions Desicions.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some people really seem to have too much money... What a horrible burden it must be!
Heck, I would hate to have to decide if I should spend three more grands on a 'temporary' computer while about ten thousand dollars of equipment were coming my way...

Of course, that would give me something to babble about... ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
well when you put it *that* way :(

Maybe I won't bother and I'll just wait endlessly for my PB and sit her continuing to be unenlightened and uninspired by the pc in which I sit in front of 12 hours a day while becoming more and more frustrated with apple and their non-communicative method of "customer service" as I read forum threads about rumours which stated the speculated date of when powerbooks *may* ship and which possible flaws may come with them yet still hearing nothing from apple about this powerbook which was *supposed* to arrive in "February" :( (Steve jobs - January 7th SF expo)
 

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I'll vouch for macspectrum. He's at least old enough to reach the keyboard. Methinks he might have been referring to the itsy bitsy tiresome nature of some of the posts regarding purchase of equipment that is just a little out of the range of the average Canadian.

The 17" powerbook will be here soon enough
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
that's not what he's pissed about. He gave me some attitude regarding a post thread I started (which I will admit got more confusing than necessary) and when I ignored him saying "whatever" he couldn't handle the return attitude.

Am I supposed to feel bad that I am using my student loan money to buy much needed computer equipment that I need for school as well as for my business? hhmmm...nope. Don't think so. Like I said. Grow up. If you aren't interested in the post then don't read it or respond to. Quite a simple process really.
 

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2 words; Free speech.

You asked for assistance in some issue with multi-platform files, presentations and applications.

i gave a well thought out and correct solution with the parameters give by the questioner. a solution that will work for small, large, apps,almost any sitatuion and for future growth too

i even direct the questioner to a link on ehMac - Trading Post, of someone selling that EXACT solution i was recommending

then i get a 'whatever' for my time and effort...


Oyyyyyyy (I'll borrow Dr. G.'s spelling if I may Dr. G.)
*** Waiting for Gdo ***
 

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Some facts that were left out.
I will leave it to the populace as to whether my proposed solution was sound or not. I am prepared to be judged.

macspectrum
Full Citizen
Member # 879

posted March 11, 2003 08:59 PM                     
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are we to assume that you wish to be able to read, modify and save these files on each platform?

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Michael Kulyk
MACSPECTRUM
We make your workflow work for you. http://www.macspectrum.com
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Posts: 1007 | From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Pamela
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Member # 1221

posted March 11, 2003 09:00 PM                     
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yes.

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Waiting to convert *grrrr*

17" Powerbook??????? | Canon S9000 Wide Format Printer | Canon N1220U Laptop Scanner | Fuji Finepix 2800 Zoom | Iomega 250 Zip | AND....a 23" cinema display!!

Pamela | Architecture Student | Vancouver BC
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Posts: 100 | From: [email protected] | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
macspectrum
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Member # 879

posted March 11, 2003 09:03 PM                     
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What about an USB drive? you can store and save files to it by attaching it to the computer of choice.

Just make sure the USB drive is formatted 1/2 as NTFS and 1/2 as Mac.

Move the files you are working on back and forth from the NTFS partition for PC and the Mac partition for Mac.
The NTFS will retain the Mac info. when being moved back to the Mac. A Fat32 partition will not.

I think that may work.

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Michael Kulyk
MACSPECTRUM
We make your workflow work for you. http://www.macspectrum.com
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Posts: 1007 | From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
macspectrum
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posted March 11, 2003 09:05 PM                     
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I also have assumed that the PCs you are using support NTFS. i.e. Win NT, 2000, XP, etc.

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Michael Kulyk
MACSPECTRUM
We make your workflow work for you. http://www.macspectrum.com
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Pamela
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posted March 11, 2003 09:05 PM                     
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quote:
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Originally posted by macspectrum:
What about an USB drive? you can store and save files to it by attaching it to the computer of choice.

Just make sure the USB drive is formatted as NTFS.

I think that may work.
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hhmmm...maybe. I AM getting an ipod and hoped that that would do the trick...but people weren't sure if I would be able to plug it into a pc or non os 10.2.4 machine.

When you say usb drive are you talking about those little keys or a big drive?

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Waiting to convert *grrrr*

17" Powerbook??????? | Canon S9000 Wide Format Printer | Canon N1220U Laptop Scanner | Fuji Finepix 2800 Zoom | Iomega 250 Zip | AND....a 23" cinema display!!

Pamela | Architecture Student | Vancouver BC
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macspectrum
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Member # 879

posted March 11, 2003 09:09 PM                     
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Depends on how much data you are carrying around.

I would suggest a real USB and FireWire drive. FW is much faster for Macs but most PCs don't have FW yet, but most PCs do have USB.

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Michael Kulyk
MACSPECTRUM
We make your workflow work for you. http://www.macspectrum.com
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Posts: 1007 | From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
macspectrum
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Member # 879

posted March 11, 2003 09:13 PM                     
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Just make sure the USB drive is formatted 1/2 as NTFS and 1/2 as Mac.

Move the files you are working on back and forth from the NTFS partition for PC and the Mac partition for Mac.
The NTFS will retain the Mac info. when being moved back to the Mac. A Fat32 partition will not.
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Posts: 1007 | From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Pamela
New Neighbour
Member # 1221

posted March 11, 2003 09:18 PM                     
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I guess I was hoping for an easier answer. Like "format this type of cd *this* way" or "this is how you make your ipod work to hold non mp3 files and then transfer them to any computer"

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Waiting to convert *grrrr*

17" Powerbook??????? | Canon S9000 Wide Format Printer | Canon N1220U Laptop Scanner | Fuji Finepix 2800 Zoom | Iomega 250 Zip | AND....a 23" cinema display!!

Pamela | Architecture Student | Vancouver BC
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All right, now, little ones.... take a "time out" / have a *ahem* beverage or some other mood-altering substance (your choice)....

Pamela, I think perhaps a few of us have PB envy (I know I do). Forgive us if we manifest the jealousy in ways that upset the decorum here. :D

If you decide to go ahead and pick up the iMac, it won't be a purchase you regret.

And to clarify - the lovely thing which sits in front of me (actually, off to the side a bit as I'm writing this on my iBook) is the 15" 800mhz SuperDrive version, not one of the new puppies.

The only noise this model gives off is the fan, which is barely noticeable (in contrast to the extremely loud laptop hard drive which is driving me nuts - and this is the replacement drive from Apple). The HD on the iMac is virtually silent - noticeable only when it accesses data, and even that is but a whisper.

The ergonomics of the screen are difficult to convey to anyone who hasn't spent time in front of one. It's so ridiculously easy to give it a little nudge to deflect glare as a the day passes, or to swing it aside and raise it a little to show someone the screen. I have literally caught myself trying to nudge non-pivoting monitors, just in time to keep 'em from crashing to the floor. It becomes second nature, and something you just expect to <u>be</u> there.

The keyboard is beautiful in appearance and function. The "pro" speakers put out wicked sound, even without an iSub (woofer). The pile of peripherals hooked up through our USB hub (Canoscan N650U, Zip 100, USB floppy, Epson Stylus Photo EX, Pacific Image PF3600Pro slide scanner, Sony TRV-17 miniDV camera, MacAlly iOptiJr. mouse) are all performing very well, considering most of 'em are legacy equipment with beta or non-standard OS X drivers. We left Classic behind a few weeks go, popping over into OS 9 only to run Unreal Tournament or Quake III Arena.

As to your questions: disabling the internal HD would involve dismantling the machine, which voids the warranty, but is possible. Not that you would ever want/need to do it. Just buy the iMac with the largest possible internal HD at the time (custom build via the Apple store). Adding an Airport Extreme card and more RAM is extremely easy, involving four screws which are so marvelously designed, you can't lose 'em (they're permanently affixed to the bottom plate).

Recommendation: Do Not Buy RAM From Apple. You can buy certified, in-spec memory from various resellers, like http://www.coastmemory.com for a fifth of what Apple charges.

Re: Monitor Spanning. I have some possibly bad news for you. The iMac's video-out is a mini-VGA, which requires an adapter to go up to regular VGA. This isn't so expensive, so no big deal. But all of Apple's LCD displays have ADC connectors only, so you'd need a VGA->ADC adapter, which currently runs at $399 USD Available from Geffen.

Nice thing about Apple's LCD displays? They have two USB ports on the back.

And as for the Fonts question... mine seem crystal-clear on the iMac 15". I suspect many of those who have been complaining about fuzzy fonts probably have never bothered going to the Displays preference pane and choosing the LCD option (by default, for some reason, it's set to CRT).

There - that's enough to chew on for now....

Hasta la próxima,
M.
 

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evil, evil, fül.


welcome to the club
we have beer night on Thursday and there is a Hearts Tournament coming up later this month... Guess which day?

You got it. The 15th - "Beware the Ides of March!"
:eek:
 
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