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· Indigent Academic
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There is so much bull$h!t being thrown around in this thread it is beginning to smell like a farm!

My entire academic career has been spent in behavioural toxicology, a branch of biological psychology, particularly in effects of prenatal exposure to marijuana on cognitive functions in children. We followed the same cohort from the perinatal period through young adulthood. We are now looking at at effects in the same subjects as young adults. A sample of our research can be found at Current and former marijuana use: preliminary findings of a longitudinal study of effects on IQ in young adults -- Fried et al. 166 (7): 887 -- Canadian Medical Association Journal - you can follow the bibliography from there if interested.

Any way you cut it, pot is a mind altering substance and should remain illegal.
By itself, so what? So is caffeine and sugar.
It is the gateway to major addictions of much harder drugs.
The gateway theory has been pretty much discredited in research. It remains the province of lobby groups and other non-critical types who have little regard for the truth.
Okay, I was probably overstepping there, but industrial lobbying played a big role in marijuana prohibition, long before any research was done to determine if there was any real danger to individuals or society. Indeed, now that some research is being done, we're finding very little and conflicting evidence regarding its dangers, and some circumstances where it can be beneficial.
True. Specifically, marijuana was prohibited due to lobbying by four interests:
1 & 2. The nicotine and alcohol industries who wanted to eliminate a competing recreational substance.
3. The pharmaceutical industry who objected to a medicine with a record some 12000 years long. After all, they didn't want people growing their own medication for free - cuts into corporate profits don't you know.
4. The pulp and paper industry wanted to eliminate hemp paper because it lasted much longer and could be recycled more times. Also paper made from trees was cheaper than paper made from hemp if you do not count the cost of replacing tree. Hemp/marijuana, of course can be re-grown on an annual basis - trees take years. It escapes me why this isn't a carbon issue.

It is also true that there is limited evidence as to the harm that may be attributable to marijuana. And what evidence there is is characteristically poorly interpreted in the public media. In all my years of research and reading in the field, IMHO (I am not alone in this), there is no case to prohibit marijuana as long as nicotine and alcohol are legal. As to possible positive effects, the classic case is as an anti-nausea treatment in cancer therapy, but there is evidence of positive effects against chronic pain and as a therapy for MS, as well as other areas. The literature exists should one actually want to know the truth rather than knee jerk along with the crowd. There is good and bad in everything. Cigarettes kill, but nicotine may have a role in ameliorating memory loss in early Alzheimer's and as a treatment for ADD and its relatives. Alcohol is arguably the single biggest drug problem in all of society, but a drink a day can have a very similar positive therapeutic effect to aspirin in heart attack and stroke prevention without the danger of damage to stomach lining and other side effects of aspirin. Certain alcohol preparations, namely dark ales and red wines, contain antioxidants and flavinoids which have been shown to be useful to the body. BTW, marijuana also has antioxidant properties.
Are you saying that the majority of pot smokers don't have other problems, and don't get high to escape those problems?
As opposed to non pot smokers?
I'll say it loud and clear. The majority do not have any more problems than their non smoking counterparts. I challenge you to provide evidence to the contrary.
I second that challenge.
Effects of doing pot:
"Effects of smoking are generally felt within a few minutes and peak in 10 to 30 minutes. They include dry mouth and throat, increased heart rate, impaired coordination and balance, delayed reaction
Source: Basic Facts About Drugs: Marijuana.

This quote is from The American Council for Drug Education which is a lobby group not a research organisation. They wouldn't know truth if it jumped up and bit them in the eye. Much like DARE they exist on half-truth and innuendo and the money of the uncritical. DARE programs cost communities money that could be used for real teaching efforts. DARE exposed children show no difference from unexposed children by the middle to end of high school - the money spent is completely wasted. Police do themselves a disservice in their support of DARE because when the children find out that most of the program is bovine fesces their faith in authority is diminished.

I could go on....

Prohibition has never solved anything. It just serves to make criminals rich.
 

· R.I.P. Don - 06/21/2020
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There is so much bull$h!t being thrown around in this thread it is beginning to smell like a farm!

Prohibition has never solved anything. It just serves to make criminals rich.
Just like drug dealers in a way. All you potheads and so-called "recreational users" who think drugs should be legalized are the very ones supporting the continued existence of dealers and gangs and their criminal and murderous ways.

It is why you see 18 year olds driving around in $100,000 vehicles. ;)
 

· Indigent Academic
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4,357 Posts
Just like drug dealers in a way. All you potheads and so-called "recreational users" who think drugs should be legalized are the very ones supporting the continued existence of dealers and gangs and their criminal and murderous ways.
Old Joe Kennedy made his fortune running booze from Canada under prohibition and look where that led!! :D
It is why you see 18 year olds driving around in $100,000 vehicles. ;)
Don't know about the truth of that - I think it has more to do with ridiculously loose credit.

I did drive this $100,000 car this weekend.
 

· peek-a-boo
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3,432 Posts
One thing about threads like this one, it makes the potheads readily identifiable. ;)
Be careful who you're calling 'pothead' around here. Just because I believe something and can see the sense in an alternative way of looking at things doesn't mean I'm a 'pothead'.

But if that's the sort of backwards reasoning that helps make you feel better, then I can't help you.

Sort of like in gay marriage threads when someone dares to voice support then they must be gay. Or if you disagree with Bush then you are either a terrorist or support them.

Absolutely idiocy.
 

· R.I.P. Don - 06/21/2020
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Be careful who you're calling 'pothead' around here. Just because I believe something and can see the sense in an alternative way of looking at things doesn't mean I'm a 'pothead'.
Likewise you might consider being careful accusing me of calling you a pothead. I didn't.

It does however make me wonder what members might be users and users are potheads to me.
 

· Premium Member
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186 Posts
No one I know over 40 smokes marijuana in any amount, and I know a lot of people. It is not only uncommon, it is unheard of in our circle of friends.
Kind of like gays don't exist in Iran? People are less likely to come out in the open when others don't tolerate their beliefs. This could be a reason why YOU don't observe it and why it is unheard of.
 

· R.I.P. Don - 06/21/2020
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Kind of like gays don't exist in Iran? People are less likely to come out in the open when others don't tolerate their beliefs. This could be a reason why YOU don't observe it and why it is unheard of.
Given our group have socialized for twenty years, including camping together for weeks at a time, it is highly unlikely my friends are sneaking off into the bush for a toke.

They are much more likely to pull up a chair around the fire, beer or shot in hand and join in a sing along to enjoy life.

I repeat, no one in our circle of friends are users.
 

· Indigent Academic
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4,357 Posts
Given our group have socialized for twenty years, including camping together for weeks at a time, it is highly unlikely my friends are sneaking off into the bush for a toke.

They are much more likely to pull up a chair around the fire, beer or shot in hand and join in a sing along to enjoy life.

I repeat, no one in our circle of friends are users.
Apparently they are users of alcohol which is a far, far bigger problem drug than all the illegals put together. Good for you!
 

· Banned
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1,617 Posts
Discussion Starter · #49 ·
They are much more likely to pull up a chair around the fire, beer or shot in hand and join in a sing along to enjoy life.
Sounds exactly what "pot heads" do...

As for your information SINC, I don't do "pot" but it certainly will not stop my belief that it should be legalized.

After rgray make salient points, why did you switch to anecdotes?

BTW, if soft drugs were legalized, those scary drugs dealers would cease to exist... imagine that....
 

· R.I.P. Don - 06/21/2020
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BTW, if soft drugs were legalized, those scary drugs dealers would cease to exist... imagine that....
What none of you get, is that there is no soft version of alcohol. It is what it is, but drugs are considered "soft and hard" for whatever reason.

Never having used, I cannot answer why, but I do know that soft leads to hard drugs.

Someone tried to draw a similarity of beer leading to vodka, but that just shows the ignorance of understanding between the two drugs.

Alcohol is alcohol is alcohol.

Pot is not coke and coke is not meth and so on. Get it now?
 

· peek-a-boo
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3,432 Posts
Likewise you might consider being careful accusing me of calling you a pothead. I didn't.

It does however make me wonder what members might be users and users are potheads to me.
oh yes you did. I'm sorry I won't let you get away with a snide remark, and then try to run from it. If you can't own your words don't type them. Now should we consider those who drink slobbering drunken losers?

See how stupid that is?

I don't consider people who like to have drinks with friends to be drunkards, so why on earth would you call people who like to smoke a joint potheads?

Seems to me you are allowing your bias to cloud reason.
 

· peek-a-boo
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Someone tried to draw a similarity of beer leading to vodka, but that just shows the ignorance of understanding between the two drugs.
Really.

Many recovering addicts I know said their first drug was alcohol. Interesting. Even more interesting were the ones that said they went from alcohol directly to coke or heroin.

Gateway indeed.
 

· Premium Member
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I simply don't think it's the government's job to legislate how adults run their lives.
Would you also agree that modern pharmaceuticals should be freely available to adults, allowing for huge flashing safety warnings and having to pass a basic, "does not instantly kill or disable" test (gets into another level of debate)?

A true open standard for all drugs, instead of our current artificial tiers between "fun" drugs and "treatment" drugs -- a line that marijuana is already blurring.
 

· Premium Member
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Perhaps the most honest statement of the debate to date.

The "blurring" part, that is. ;)
Actually, I raise it because the topic, on the surface, unites some "righty" and, "lefty" ehmacers on the side of liberty. I'm scratching the surface.

The social-conservative approach, to me, is just surface. Either personal feelings -- fine when honestly stated as such, or some mix of flawed logic or, more simply, a stronger desire to control other adults.
 
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