Canadian Mac Forums at ehMac banner
1 - 20 of 121 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,966 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ealth Minister Tony Clement will announce it’s anti-drug strategy this week with a stark warning: “the party’s over” for illicit drug users.
“In the next few days, we’re going to be back in the business of an anti-drug strategy,” Clement told The Canadian Press.

“In that sense, the party’s over.”

Shortly after taking office early last year, the Conservatives decided not to go ahead with a Liberal bill to decriminalize small amounts of marijuana.

Since then, the number of people arrested for smoking pot has jumped dramatically in several Canadian cities, in some cases jumping by more than one third.

Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa and Halifax all reported increases of between 20 and 50 per cent in 2006 of arrests for possession of cannabis, compared with the previous year.

As a result thousands of people were charged with a criminal offence that, under the previous Liberal government, was on the verge of being classified as a misdemeanour.

Police forces said many young people were under the impression that the decriminalization bill had already passed and were smoking up more boldly than they’ve ever done before.

Clement says his government wants to clear up the uncertainty

“There’s been a lot of mixed messages going out about illicit drugs,” Clement said in an interview Saturday after a symposium designed to bring together Canada’s arts and health communities to combat mental health issues.

For too long, Clement argues, governments in Canada have been sending the wrong message about drug use. It’s time, he says, to take a tougher approach to dealing with the problem.

Justice Minister Rob Nicholson and Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day will join Clement in announcing the plan as part of a range of initiatives to be unveiled by the Tories surrounding next month’s throne speech.
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/261901

These guys need a two by clue across the head...
 

·
R.I.P. Don - 06/21/2020
Joined
·
87,822 Posts
These guys need a two by clue across the head...
Quote:

"Since then, the number of people arrested for smoking pot has jumped dramatically in several Canadian cities, in some cases jumping by more than one third.

Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa and Halifax all reported increases of between 20 and 50 per cent in 2006 of arrests for possession of cannabis, compared with the previous year.

As a result thousands of people were charged with a criminal offence that, under the previous Liberal government, was on the verge of being classified as a misdemeanour."

:clap: :clap: :clap:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,907 Posts
I would rather be drunk than high. If my government thinks that they should have a say in that decision, then they are fools at best.

I am not against banning as a strict rule, but the general notion of presumed banning is moronic. Start with allowing everything and use science and socio-economic evidence to determine excise taxes and, if ultimately reasonable, banning.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,966 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
SINC, apart from clapping at what I can presume to be Liberal bashing, tell me how does it help to criminalize what is socially accepted.

I don't do drugs (unless you count beer, wine and single malt as drugs), but should people not have the choice to do with their body as they please? These are small amounts and we are increasing the ranks of "criminals". While it may help your world view that now it's scarier out there (with stats to back it up), has the War on drugs even worked in the past?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
43,584 Posts
I'm still for coming down hard on criminal behaviour--whether it results from boozing it up, drugs or too much sugary pop. How they got into that state is no business of mine.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,966 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm still for coming down hard on criminal behaviour--whether it results from boozing it up, drugs or too much sugary pop. How they got into that state is no business of mine.
As the so-called resident Libertarian what happened to individual liberty?
 

·
Mac Guru
Joined
·
14,623 Posts
...but should people not have the choice to do with their body as they please?
This is the most widely used argument to justify legalizing drugs, and is entirely irrelevant. Suicide is illegal. Why should doing drugs be legal? As far as I know, self-inflicted harm is not legal, and you will be detained (either imprisoned or situated into a certain facility) if you're caught doing so. As much as anyone would like to argue that doing pot is harmless, it isn't, and therefore falls under the category of self-harm and self-stupidity.

If we legalized drugs (even a bit), it would essentially be the government encouraging the use of drugs, which in turn encourages stupidity among our population and self-harm. The "War on Drugs" may not be overly effective, but that is hardly an excuse to discontinue it and legalize drugs. Discontinuing the laws against narcotics is simply encouraging their use, and the last thing we need is our government doing just that. I'm not debating for a second that people will always make use of narcotics. I'm saying that encouraging the act is hugely moronic.

Back to the topic of self-harm and ones right to do as they see fit, it's really not that simple. If it were, maybe the laws would be different. Unfortunately, smoking pot (among other things) alters your state of mind and therefore can potentially harm others based on something you may do while under the influence, including driving. The common argument against this statement is that drinking can alter your state of mind, yet drinking is legal. Sure. However, you can drink in moderation. Only if you choose to drink excessively can you pose a risk to the well-being of others. And I'll never buy the argument that you can do drugs "in moderation." (That's a load of BS in my mind.)

Bottom line: Sure, it's your body. But no government in their right mind will want to encourage the act of self-abuse.

I say that our governments should stand firmly in unity against the use of narcotics and spend more time and money on education/prevention on the subject, as well as continue efforts (as we have been for decades) towards jailing users and dealers of narcotics.

My 2-cents.
 

·
Mac Guru
Joined
·
14,623 Posts
Effects of doing pot:

"Effects of smoking are generally felt within a few minutes and peak in 10 to 30 minutes. They include dry mouth and throat, increased heart rate, impaired coordination and balance, delayed reaction time, and diminished short-term memory. Moderate doses tend to induce a sense of well-being and a dreamy state of relaxation that encourages fantasies, renders some users highly suggestible, and distorts perception (making it dangerous to operate machinery, drive a car or boat, or ride a bicycle). Stronger doses prompt more intense and often disturbing reactions including paranoia and hallucinations."

"Marijuana use reduces learning ability. Research has been piling up of late demonstrating clearly that marijuana limits the capacity to absorb and retain information."
Source: Basic Facts About Drugs: Marijuana.

But, for sure, let's go encouraging it! And legalize it! Let's encourage the next-generations of Canadians to be a group of morons!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,798 Posts
If alcohol is legal then pot should be as well. Alcohol is by far a more dangerous drug than pot and inflicts a far greater price on our society than all other drugs combined. Like Beej, I don't like the feeling of drugs and only drink alcohol on occasion.

I don't understand why hard core anti-drug believers somehow think alcohol is OK.
 

·
Mac Guru
Joined
·
14,623 Posts
If alcohol is legal then pot should be as well. Alcohol is by far a more dangerous drug than pot and inflicts a far greater price on our society than all other drugs combined. Like Beej, I don't like the feeling of drugs and only drink alcohol on occasion.

I don't understand why hard core anti-drug believers somehow think alcohol is OK.
Perhaps. But the key difference is moderation. Alcohol can be consumed in moderation, drugs cannot. Heck, even wine in moderation actually produces health benefits. Drugs have no health benefits of any kind.

There will always be abusers of substances (or objects) that, if used or consumed in moderation, would otherwise not inflict harm on others. This is not debatable. Some will drink too much and kill someone on the road. Others will run someone over with their car despite being in a perfect state of mind not under the influence of alcohol. There will always be abusers of everything that we can get our hands on.

The difference here is that alcohol, in moderation, is harmless. There is practically no such thing as doing drugs in moderation, and has short and long-term negative health effects.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,798 Posts
Perhaps. But the key difference is moderation. Alcohol can be consumed in moderation, drugs cannot. Heck, even wine in moderation actually produces health benefits. Drugs have no health benefits of any kind.

There will always be abusers of substances (or objects) that, if used or consumed in moderation, would otherwise not inflict harm on others. This is not debatable. Some will drink too much and kill someone on the road. Others will run someone over with their car despite being in a perfect state of mind not under the influence of alcohol. There will always be abusers of everything that we can get our hands on.

The difference here is that alcohol, in moderation, is harmless. There is practically no such thing as doing drugs in moderation, and has short and long-term negative health effects.
Pot actually has many health benefits for sick people. I am sure you are aware of these studies are are only referring to casual recreational usage.

Your point about being able to take alcohol in moderation does not negate my point about the hypocrisy of allowing alcohol in society and not other drugs. The reason is that the effect of alcohol is REAL and it is MASSIVE. The fact that some can drink in moderation does not negate the actions of all the people who cause trouble.

Pot carries a far lower toll than alcohol. Nobody has ever overdosed on pot and died. THOUSANDS die per year from alcohol poisoning. THOUSANDS of people die on the road at the hands of drunk drivers. THOUSANDS of drunks go home and beat their families due to alcoholism. THOUSANDS of people become addicted and loose everything.

I am not suggesting alcohol should be illegal, I am just saying that it and pot are roughly equal. If you allow one, you have to allow the other.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
43,584 Posts
As the so-called resident Libertarian what happened to individual liberty?
Read it again--I said that people should be punished for the harm that they do--and that it's no business of mine if they do that harm while under the influence of something or not.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,811 Posts
"Marijuana use reduces learning ability. Research has been piling up of late demonstrating clearly that marijuana limits the capacity to absorb and retain information."
I bet you the millions of Doctors, Lawyers, Small or Large Business owners, Marketing Execs or any of the "Suits" here in Canada would beg to differ.
Mostly everyone I know over 20 smokes weed in moderation. The sad part is the kids these days skip it entirely because they don't want to ask around, it never gets offered to them. They instead have people pushing crystal meth and percs in their faces. I wish all I had to worry about with my son was weed.
I think the "Anti-Drug" enforcers are about a decade behind the times. Stop the kids that are actually doing DAMAGE here.
And just for the argument, Alcohol kills MILLIONS every YEAR. Weed kills none (impaired judgement yes, but spousal and child abuse, no. Sorry).

Just read vandaves post, seems we're on the same level here. Logically speaking, I think Alcohol should be illegal but that doesn't mean it'll happen ever.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,700 Posts
(impaired judgement yes, but spousal and child abuse, no. Sorry).
Tell that one to my brother who just tore his family apart due to his pot use. Couldn't hold down a job, always high and was growing it in his basement with two kids living in the house. Fortunately now he is seeking the help he needs. Newsflash: Pot can rip apart families.

Please don't give me the bs about pot has benefits for cancer patients, yes it can, that is why there is medical mj, /argument.

Alcohol yes can be bad for you but it also has health benefits in moderation, mj sorry, it's just bad for you period.

Seems like the Liberals like to give up on a lot of things but I think the majority of Canadians will agree that the war on drugs shouldn't be one of them. Not the kind of message I want to be sending my kids.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,798 Posts
Seems like the Liberals like to give up on a lot of things but I think the majority of Canadians will agree that the war on drugs shouldn't be one of them. Not the kind of message I want to be sending my kids.
The message I want to send to my kids is that drugs like alcohol and pot have many negative side effects. You can do them in moderation, but it is healthier and better not to.

The message we are sending kids now is that pot is equivalent to cocaine and heroin. Once kids try pot and find out that it is similar to alcohol, we immediately lose credibility and they called BS on the 'Say no to drugs' message.

Other drugs are a whole different thing and trying them once is just plain stupid. Let's keep our anti-drug message to the drugs that are causing the problems.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,966 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The message I want to send to my kids is that drugs like alcohol and pot have many negative side effects. You can do them in moderation, but it is healthier and better not to.

The message we are sending kids now is that pot is equivalent to cocaine and heroin. Once kids try pot and find out that it is similar to alcohol, we immediately lose credibility and they called BS on the 'Say no to drugs' message.
I'm always scared when I agree with you....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,429 Posts
Perhaps. But the key difference is moderation. Alcohol can be consumed in moderation, drugs cannot.
WTF?!? :eek:

If it's possible to have 1 beer, rather than 6, how is it not possible to have one toke rather than 6?

Drugs have no health benefits of any kind.
Have any factual evidence to back this up? It's certainly not consistent with the data I'm aware of.

Fundamentally, the only reason marijuana is illegal is that several powerful industries successfully lobbied the government to prohibit it in an effort to protect their profits. The fact that it remains illegal, in the face of the ample evidence that it is a relatively harmless drug and that it's criminalization is damaging to society on many levels, is farcical. It's just like the gay-marriage non-issue... the cons doing their bit to help prop up the stupidity flowing from Washington.

Cheers
 
1 - 20 of 121 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top