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You can still buy it for $399, regardless if you sign up with AT&T or not, I believe that's the point HowEver is making.

Thinking that the extra $400 would go to Apple and AT&T is a really silly thought. It really makes little sense. Lost revenue? This is Canada.. whatever is sold here, isn't affecting the American company AT&T one bit.. and Apple makes it's profit no matter who the iPhone is sold to, and by who.
But isn't Apple getting part of the monthly fees paid to AT&T (and presumably O2 in the UK)? If that's true, Apple is losing revenue whenever somebody unlocks an iPhone and uses it on an "unauthorized" network. That would also explain a higher sticker price for an unlocked iPhone.

The whole rumour is pretty rediculous. If it doesn't require a specific carrier, then what, is it going to be unlocked? No.... so why would it then be exclusively offered by what is essentially a clothing store? Absolutely no reason at all. Oh, is Holt's going to launch their own GSM network in Canada? Yeah, that's even more out there than the supposed $799 price tag.
I do agree that the rumour is ridiculous, though. Some kind of tie-in or promo with Rogers and HR? OK, maybe, though even that much sounds far-fetched. If there's a grain of truth to it, I'll bet the "Holt Renfrew insiders" who are blabbing don't really have much idea what they're talking about. The real story, if there is one, will surely turn out to be way different.

But the whole "unlocked iPhones for $799 at Holt Renfrew" thing is just silly because, well, if Apple wants to sell unlocked iPhones, why not just sell them through apple.ca? Why not just allow Rogers, Fido, Virgin or whomever to buy them in bulk, no strings attached?
 

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The reason Apple is getting kickbacks on the monthly subscriber fees is because the iPhone's price is not subsidized. Every other cell phone out there sells for a couple hundred dollars less because the carrier is subsidizing the retail price to attract customers. Apple has convinced carriers to give them a cut of the profits instead of using that money to discount the retail price. So if Rogers wasn't going to give Apple a profit sharing arrangement, that would make the iPhone cheaper, not more expensive, or at a bare minimum, it would make the iPhone the same price relative to other Apple products sold in Canada.
 

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But isn't Apple getting part of the monthly fees paid to AT&T (and presumably O2 in the UK)? If that's true, Apple is losing revenue whenever somebody unlocks an iPhone and uses it on an "unauthorized" network. That would also explain a higher sticker price for an unlocked iPhone.
The only way it would affect them is if they were selling the iPhone locked to a specific carrier in Canada and people were buying them, unlocking them and using them with the other guy.. keeping in mind we only have Fido/Rogers... so they'd be losing out from a contract kickback. But for people unlocking and using their iPhones up here doesn't make any difference whatsoever to Apple's profits down south. In fact, it just adds to it. The more iPhones they sell, the more they make.

That's my whole point with the comment about inflating the price $400 to make up for the 'lost profits' from signing an AT&T contract... that's US, it makes no difference up here.

Because of the way they're responding to unlocked iPhones with their update(s), I don't see them offering unlocked iPhones in the near future.
 

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I've got to agree this is a pretty odd rumor considering Apple forcing everyone else to offer unlimited data plans.

Unless HR has started installing cell towers using some type of cloaking device, I don't see this being real. Other than maybe they will start selling unlocked iPhones like the guy at the cell phone store on Whyte that is trying to hawk them for $3,000.
 

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The reason Apple is getting kickbacks on the monthly subscriber fees is because the iPhone's price is not subsidized. Every other cell phone out there sells for a couple hundred dollars less because the carrier is subsidizing the retail price to attract customers. Apple has convinced carriers to give them a cut of the profits instead of using that money to discount the retail price. So if Rogers wasn't going to give Apple a profit sharing arrangement, that would make the iPhone cheaper, not more expensive, or at a bare minimum, it would make the iPhone the same price relative to other Apple products sold in Canada.
No doubt a carrier would treat the iPhone the same as any other handset if given the chance. That's not the same as selling an unlocked phone, though, and the lack of guaranteed monthly revenue for the seller of such a phone does imply a higher upfront price.
 

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But for people unlocking and using their iPhones up here doesn't make any difference whatsoever to Apple's profits down south. In fact, it just adds to it. The more iPhones they sell, the more they make.
Every time they sell an iPhone, it's with the understanding and expectation that the buyer will sign a 24-month contract with AT&T. There's planned revenue there, so every time a phone is unlocked (or never activated, for that matter) and not used under an "official" plan, that revenue fails to appear. Doesn't matter where it happens, it still represents a "discount" that Apple didn't intend to give. (Say it's $10 a month for a total of $240: that means they'd have to charge $240 more to make the same money off an unlocked phone.)

Anyway, I don't mean to derail this thread. Just saying the higher sticker price is actually a plausible part of this rumour as long as the phone involved is unlocked. Still a really silly rumour, though.
 

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Yeah, but I still don't see how that makes sense. A person that intends to buy an iPhone and activate it with AT&T is still going to do that, regardless is a Canadian buys one and unlocks it to use it up here. It's not taking away from their sales, it's adding to it.

It's the same logic car salesmen use when trying to get more profit from a sale. Sure, I want it for $1000 less than the other guy.. so does that mean he makes $1000 less if he sells it to me? No. He can sell two cars! The only way it'd affect profit if there were a limited supply, which there aren't.
 

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Yeah, but I still don't see how that makes sense. A person that intends to buy an iPhone and activate it with AT&T is still going to do that, regardless is a Canadian buys one and unlocks it to use it up here. It's not taking away from their sales, it's adding to it.

It's the same logic car salesmen use when trying to get more profit from a sale. Sure, I want it for $1000 less than the other guy.. so does that mean he makes $1000 less if he sells it to me? No. He can sell two cars! The only way it'd affect profit if there were a limited supply, which there aren't.
Let's use the earlier example of $10 per month that Apple receives from AT&T.

If the base profit on an iPhone for Apple is $100, and they receive $240 from AT&T over the life of the contract, their total profit for that one phone will be $340.

If it is sold as an unlocked phone at the same price then Apple will only realise $100 in profit on that one phone.

So in order for Apple to get the same amount of profit from the unlocked phone, they would need to set the price to be $240 higher.
 

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Oakbridge, I think the point is that having $100 in profit is better than $0 in profit. But on the other hand, unlocked phones aren't just going to Canadians or people in other countries. Plenty of them are being used by people in the US to avoid the AT&T contract or use on an alternate US carrier, in which case, that is lost revenue for Apple since those people would otherwise have signed a contract with AT&T if they were prevented from unlocking.
 

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This is easily the dumbest rumour I have heard yet.

For $799 the thing had better be crusted in diamonds.

Not to mention the fact that it would make no sense that Apple would suddenly throw out their entire sales and marketing plan of tying the iPhone to a specific carrier with an unlimited data plan just for Canada.

Personally I can't believe anyone actually printed this rumour.
 

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I know people at Rogers, and I used to work at Rogers.

iPhone is coming out April 2008 at the earliest. And probably later than that.

Solution:
The Canadian dollar is worth MORE than the U.S. dollar now... so the iPhone is less than $400. To unlock....

a) TurboSIM from pdaplaza.ca (I have mine) will work with 1.1.1 and almost guaranteed future updates, as it doesn't touch the phone itself. You need an AT&T activated SIM though (it can be cancelled after the fact).

b) iPhoneSIMFree with a downgraded 1.0.2 phone.

c) Buy a used 1.0.2 phone, apply the anySIM unlock, and hope the dev team figures out the 1.1.1 encryption scheme before the end of the year...
 

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I'm sticking to my version 1.0.2 iPhone unlocked. Rogers is a bunch of greedy SOBs so don't hold your breath for a Canadian release. Instead, buy one in the US and unlock it up here like I did.
 

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Written by iMatt: "But the whole "unlocked iPhones for $799 at Holt Renfrew" thing is just silly because, well, if Apple wants to sell unlocked iPhones, why not just sell them through apple.ca? Why not just allow Rogers, Fido, Virgin or whomever to buy them in bulk, no strings attached?"

I read the entire thread before writing this because I was looking for at least one person to see it from this perspective. If Apple were to sell unlocked iPhones, it is highly unlikely (never say never) that they would pass it on to a retailer/2nd party to sell their products for them! Marketing wise, there is absolutely no benefit of doubling the price and selling it through an expensive fashion retailer! That sentence alone sounds f'n weird! The product is still riding on it's shock (oooh ahhh) value and the second it was available here, demand would beat out supply. Not to mention the amount of Americans coming over the border for the chance to use their iPhone on T-Mobile with no hack.

Point being, if the iPhone was to be sold in Canada with no carrier agreement, Apple would defintely be the one to sell it.

2nd Point: It's highly unlikely Apple would release the product here without its customers being able to use the device to it's full pontential. (No data plan = No iPhone)
 

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This is the reply from [email protected]...

Holt Renfrew will not be carrying the iphone. I would check with your
local cell phone dealer.

Holt Renfrew

Personal Shopping, Bloor Street416. 960. 2554

50 Bloor St. West

Toronto, ON M4W 1A1
Psh! You're gonna believe them!? What do they know!?

I need to hear an OFFICIAL denial before I cancel my camp out at Holt Renfrew!

:lmao:
 

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For $799 the thing had better be crusted in diamonds.
Those would have to be some pretty small diamonds... I'd at least think like a thin layer of gold on the back for $799... Or just diamonds for the Apple logo...
 
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