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This could be nothing, but my buddy just called me to tell me that where ever he was in Scarborough, he just saw gas @ 99.9¢.

:eek:

Not sure what that means, but I was bout 2/3 full, so I left home to top it off around the corner for 75.2¢. I've been caught too many times just saying 'In the morning...', only to be surprised by a 10¢ jump. This one might be a quarter though... did not want to risk it. Any similar signs in your end??

H!
 

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There's a Shell at Mcowan and Steeles selling gas for 99.1 :eek:
 

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Seems the Toronto Star has jumped in the "sky is falling" mode


World creeping closer to `oil shock'
Energy crisis could loom, experts say
Politics, corporate moves are factors


DAVID OLIVE
BUSINESS COLUMNIST

Are we running out of oil? Are we in danger of another energy crisis of the magnitude of the 1970s "oil shocks" that condemned us to a decade of economic stagnation? And with our desultory regard for conservation and alternative energy sources, are we risking ever greater oil dependence on the volatile Middle East?

Yes, yes and yes.

Of course we're running out of oil and natural gas; they're non-renewable resources, and the rate of discovery of so-called "elephants" has been on the decline for decades since the halcyon days of Alaska's Prudhoe Bay and the North Sea. Worse, the more recent discoveries have been made in some of the world's most remote and politically unstable places — among them, Nigeria, Sudan, Russia, Indonesia and the former Soviet republics of central Asia
more

first of a four part series...........tabloid sensationalism of course ;)

I know I'm a lighter foot on the gas pedal these days - we seem to be having a corporate game of who can keep the Windstar over 18 mpg. :D

I don't really look for the cheapest as I usually go to full serve. Figure if I have to pay gov and oil companies a big chunk at least I can help keep some poor sod employed in the process.

But I DO notice it in surcharges on shipping. Powerbooks are lot nicer to ship from a margin standpoint.

from the same article.
"As far as we're concerned, this is not the real crunch," Westwood said of the current oil-supply squeeze. "This is just practice
:eek:

I see the GTAs effort to contain sprawl a positive step as it will lower mass transport costs per person.

What other impacts are you seeing or figure will come out of this over the next while other than more brownouts and painful fillups.????

A solar charged golf cart in the summer is looking attractive. One with a fairing and pedal assist, a racing stripe perhaps parked in the driveway for local errands. $129 for a solar charger from Canada Tire these days. :D

Here comes the future - perhaps a bit more rapidly than anticipated :cool:
 

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Ouch...wasn't it just Friday that I saw gas for 67 cents? I haven't been out all weekend so I haven't been up to date on the gas price. This is really gonna suck...stoopid-premium-only-grade-car :rolleyes:
 

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When I went down to Toronto last Sunday to pick up my Mac I filled up for 69¢/L.

Ottawa's been averaging about 80¢/L. When I used to work at the gas station, people from T.O. travelling up on Highway 7 would always tell me that gas here was cheap, so I was kind of surprised to find the price of gas there that low. Not that it bothered me or anything


Just about all of the Ultramar gas stations here now have those four-digit gas price signs up. Yeech.

- Hooch.
 

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Gas prices fluctuate wildly here in North Vancouver (and Vancouver in general). Lately, the range has been 82 to 94 cents and you're guranteed to get prices all over that range throughout any given week.

Their little game has got everyone here believing that anything below 85 cents is the sale of the century. I got held up in traffic last week because cars were lining up down the street to buy gas at 78.9. Utter lunacy!

It boggles my mind that people are willing to wait and endure the stress off jockeying for pump positions. :rolleyes:

I fueled up down the street at 81.9 because that station was a ghost town. My time and mental well-being are well worth the $1.20 extra I spent. ;)

- Martin.
 

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Pretty wide swing last night 10¢ per litre swing across the street :eek:

More from the Star on the oil situation

Energy crisis ahead

HAROON SIDDIQUI

Whether or not Iraq was invaded for oil — it surely wasn't for dates or even democracy — the mess America has made of the occupation has sent oil corporations rushing off to Libya.

Just as Saddam Hussein was the darling of Washington before being deemed a demon, Moammar Gadhafi, yesterday's bette noir, is today's hero.

American businessmen, mostly from George W. Bush's native Texas, are in Tripoli eyeing oil concessions. Halliburton, the company Dick Cheney worked for, is there. So is Petro-Canada.

This black gold rush, however, does not represent a new hope so much as another desperate bid to stave off the coming crisis in renewable resources.

The crisis is coming sooner than predicted by the experts quoted in a four-part series in the Star this past week. It's coming this decade, according to a contrarian who has been prescient on the subject.

We know oil prices are at a record high. Production has peaked. No major new fields are being discovered. We are running out of oil, except in the Middle East and parts of Africa.

Natural gas has doubled in price in a year. A regional commodity that became continental will soon be traded worldwide, like oil: bought on one continent and sold in another, given the needs of North America.

That means huge Liquefied Natural Gas tankers. And LNG ports and depots. About 10 each on the East Coast, the West Coast and the Gulf Coast.

"LNG tankers and re-gassification terminals are the worst thing imaginable, from a security aspect," says Ed Schreyer. "One bullet by a terrorist, and you'd have a catastrophe."

The former governor-general has had a lifelong interest in energy policy. When he was premier of Manitoba (1969-77), his wife Lily used to say that his bedtime reading consisted of Manitoba Hydro tomes.

Schreyer kept informed while at Rideau Hall (1979-84) and in the next four years as high commissioner to Australia. He has since been teaching the subject at Canadian and German universities, being fluent in German.

Recently, he was at Queen's University in Belfast, delivering the Eaton Lecture, named after Timothy, who came to Canada from a village near that campus.

In his Belfast address, and in two phone conversations from his native Winnipeg, Schreyer warned of a "disaster of truly epic proportions."

He is no prophet of doom. But he sees clear dangers.

We are entering the end of the 100-year era of oil, he says.

"We are 10 minutes to midnight," notwithstanding "the `horn of plenty' school of unbounded optimists" or those pinning their hopes on new techniques of extraction. "Capital put into an old and exhausted field is like buying the Brooklyn Bridge."

Oil will still be around for another 50 years, he says. But "almost anytime soon, perhaps in this decade ... supply and demand will be out of balance and so will price — and so will almost everything else that makes for a stable society and civilization."

The coming "chaos and misery" would grind transportation to a halt, of course, but also industry and agriculture.

Food production is so dependent on oil — for mechanization, fertilization, herbicides, pesticides, feedlots, poultry and hog factories — that high prices and sporadic supply would have "the makings of a breakdown in the chain of food supply."

Natural gas won't rescue us.

Its overuse has led to depletion. So much so that the post-Sept. 11 assumption made by George W. Bush and Jean Chrétien, that Canada would be a backup source of gas for America, has proven to be an illusion.

Tellingly, the Bush administration has not complained, as it has a right to do under the North American Free Trade Agreement. It realizes, says Schreyer, that "the Canadian tar sands are strategically more important to its future needs than gas."

But the tar sands themselves are problematic. They need massive amounts of natural gas both to produce and to process.

Yet Canadians remain "blissfully ignorant" of all this, as also of the environmental degradation we are causing.

Paul Martin has already conceded that "we have no plan" that would enable us to implement the Kyoto protocol despite signing it.

"There's no let-up in fossil dependency, nor supply, nor CO2 escalation," says Schreyer.

"This is courting disaster — a form of irrational behaviour or collective madness."

He also bemoans the "infighting and complete lack of goodwill and co-operation" among environmentalists and proponents of solar, hydro, wind and other forms of energy.

"Many disparage and poor-mouth all renewable energy sources other than their own preference. Every duck praises its own slough. It's often a weird scenario, as though players of the same team and uniform prefer to attack each other instead of their opponents."

While environmentalists have done great service, Schreyer says, some have been "simplistic, aggressive and irrational" in holding back hydro or nuclear energy.

Meanwhile, Ontario Hydro's flirtation with deregulation has been disastrous: "The once impressive flagship of Canadian utilities in now half way up some ill-defined hill and stalled out."

What should be done, beyond ringing alarm bells?

Develop more hydraulic energy, a third more than the current total — especially in Ontario, Quebec and Manitoba.

Have a "sober and rational debate" on nuclear energy, and develop more of it.

Get serious about solar and wind, the latter along coastlines, mountain passes and the plains.

Build a national electricity grid. It would "cost a hell of a lot less than another gas pipeline."

Promote electric and hybrid-electric cars, for which the technology is already here.

For three years, Schreyer has been using cars powered by battery and gasoline. The engine shuts off when the car stops. You get going by pushing the electric pedal. As you gain speed, the gasoline engine takes over.

Toyota and Honda have led the way with these cars.

Yet in North America, the buzz has been over hydrogen and the fuel cell, neither of which makes much sense to Schreyer.

There are only two ways to get hydrogen: splitting the water molecule through electrolysis (expensive) or stripping it away from natural gas ("What for? Natural gas does virtually the same thing as hydrogen.")

As for the fuel cell, "that's at least 20 years away."

Perhaps that's the key, Schreyer says. It lulls us into postponing the long process of ending our dependence on oil and gas.

Why have politicians and policy makers been complicit?

The Bush-Cheney connection to big oil and gas is self-explanatory. As for Chrétien — he was big on the fuel cell — and others, Schreyer thinks they have been misled and "have not taken the time to inform themselves."

His hope is that "political leadership would, in due course, run from behind to catch up with public opinion
Stark choices face us on energy use


How would you react if you were to wake up tomorrow morning to discover that hydro, gas and oil prices had all doubled or tripled overnight?

Most Canadians would immediately cut back sharply on their heating or air conditioning, park their cars if they could and take a bus or subway or commuter train to work, run out to buy the latest energy-efficient light bulbs, turn down the thermostat on their hot water tanks, start washing their clothes in cold water, install energy-conserving shower heads, and turn on the power-saving features on their computers.

In general, they would make every effort to stop wasting energy to moderate the steep increases in their energy bills. These are all simple energy conservation measures that most of us now cannot be bothered to use.

The next steps would be harder. Consumers might trade in their gas-guzzling monsters for smaller cars with much better gas mileage, buy the latest energy-efficient appliances, upgrade insulation and replace leaky windows. At the same time, there could be a mad dash by producers — and where feasible even by consumers — to invest in new technologies and alternative sources of energy, such as solar, wind and geothermal power.

But, because energy prices are not going to go through the roof tomorrow, very few of us are going to do any of these things. Human nature is such that we tend to wait for a crisis to happen before we react.

However, as the current Star series of articles on the looming energy crisis highlight, we do so at our peril.

The faster we start adjusting to the energy crisis that is sure to occur in the decades ahead, the greater will be our ability to cope when it finally hits. Many experts see a calamity already forming on the horizon because they do not believe there is any possibility that new oil and gas discoveries can significantly slow the pace at which energy-hungry nations, including Canada, are depleting the world's proven reserves.

The imperative for all Canadians to take action to reduce their consumption of oil and natural gas takes on a sense of urgency when you consider the many factors threatening future supplies. These include the threat of a major disruption emanating from instability in the energy-rich Middle East, as well as cutbacks in fossil fuel use dictated by the new Kyoto agreement on global warming.

But who can force urgent actions on a myopic public and a business sector that also seems to be overly complacent? The challenge clearly falls to governments to show vision and leadership, both in encouraging widespread conservation and in accelerating development of alternative fuels.

Ottawa and the provinces must go well beyond educating the public on these critical issues. They must work in concert to develop a carrot-and-stick approach that rewards conservation and spurs advances in alternative fuels, while punishing those who would continue to waste fossil fuels.

Just as Ottawa is proposing to dedicate a part of the current gasoline tax to transit and other urban needs, it could also raise funds to promote conservation and alternative fuel investments by increasing and extending gasoline taxes to all hydrocarbon fuels.

The public would, no doubt, protest loudly against any fuel taxes, claiming that they would seriously damage our standard of living. But all that claim really says is that people do not want to give up their SUVs, take public transit or make all the other small personal sacrifices that a dedication to real energy conservation requires.

Those would be legitimate arguments except for the fact that our failure to make modest sacrifices today ultimately will only invite chaos and social upheaval when the world reaches the point where there is simply not enough fossil fuel to satisfy all our needs.
 

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Just got back from the maritimes where the most we paid for gas was 94.1 & the least was 88.1! While out there I heard of an increase in oil prices and a warning to brace for high prices.
 

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To resurrect this thread (if anyone's interested) - Super Unleaded was 79.4 cents/litre at a local Esso this evening. That's the lowest I've seen it in ages.

What are prices like out your way, these days?
 

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59.9¢ in Toronto/Mississauga earlier this week --Tuesday I think. Lowest I've seen in a long, long time. Next day 69.9¢ that's for regular unleaded.
 

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Ohh I pity you all. Sucks to be 'gas guzzlers' eh?

Why not try alternative fuels? I know propane isn't popular, and neither is methane (natural gas), but why does everyone seem to forget about DIESEL!?!?! It's such a good fuel, and for so many reasons! It's mostly cheaper than gasoline in the summer, and a bit more expensive in the winter (because of the anti-gel additives they need to put into it), and it lasts longer than gasoline too! Now, the advantage of driving a diesel vehicle is even more fun! You never need to change and gap spark plugs, there's no air throttle, diesel engines run cooler than gasoline (you can even change the oil right after driving them!) and are manufactured to higher standards considering they handle 4 times the compression of gasoline engines, they never knock and they never break! It's great! However, they get to be atrocious in the wintertime. Your fuel can gel (and stop flowing nicely), the engine gets hard to start due to the heavier oil, and they just are slow. But when I pay about 30$ to fill my tank and I then proceed to drive about 500 km before refueling, i'd think that more than outweighs the cold weather crankiness.

Moreover, diesel engines can be modified (easily too!) to run off fryer fat, like from a restaurant. It produces as much power as diesel fuel and is mostly free, as it comes from nasty grease traps. But... FREE FUEL! I gotta get me one of these conversion kits someday.
 

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m_gear - I don't get your logic.

"Did you know that even though <diesel) trucks and buses <and cars> make up less than 2 percent of highway vehicles and account for less than 6 percent of the miles driven each year, they are responsible for one-quarter of the smog-causing pollution from highway vehicles, over half the soot from highway vehicles, and consume over one-tenth of America's oil? Today's diesel trucks emit more soot and smog-forming pollution for every unit of energy they burn than a coal-fired power plant. Even worse, according to a recent study by the Health Effects Institute, more than 98% of the particles emitted from diesel engines are fine particles, less than 1 micron in diameter.2 These are especially hazardous because they can bypass respiratory defense mechanisms and lodge deep in the lungs. Studies by Harvard University's School of Health and the American Cancer Society have established strong links between cardiopulmonary diseases (such as heart attacks, strokes and asthma) and fine particles less than 2.5 micrometers in size (1/50 the diameter of a human hair).

Diesel exhaust not only contributes to ozone formation and the production of fine particulates, it also is a global warmer. Heavy-duty trucks alone emit almost 400 million metric tons of heat-trapping gases annually, accounting for about 6 percent of US carbon emissions.

Over 40 individual chemical compounds in diesel exhaust have separately been listed as Toxic Air Contaminants (TACs) and many of these chemicals are also identified by EPA as compounds that cause cancer. In a study of the cancer risks from diesel in the 20 largest metropolitan areas in the United States, conducted by the State and Territorial Air Pollution Program Administrators and the Association of Local Air Pollution Control Officials, in March of 2000 there were an estimated 1,210 cancers from diesel particulates in Pittsburgh.

GASP is particularly concerned about school buses (nearly 442,000 nationwide), the vast majority of which are powered by diesel fuel. Over 23 million children rely upon these school buses to carry them safely to school. Children are among the most susceptible to the health effects of diesel exhaust exposure for many reasons. One is that their developing bodies are less capable of defending themselves against pollutants, such as fine particles, which can harbor in the lungs. Children also typically have a faster metabolism and breathe at twice the rate of an adult, thereby receiving and retaining greater doses of pollution. In addition, children tend to breathe through their mouths, bypassing the natural filtration protection of the nose. A final reason is that children tend to spend more time outdoors, especially when air pollution levels are at their peak. Numerous public health studies have linked diesel soot to missed school days, asthma hospitalizations, chronic bronchitis, pneumonia, heart disease, and even premature death.

According to results of a study designed by the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) and the U.C. Berkeley School of Public Health to test levels of diesel exhaust inside school buses, a child sitting in the back of a school bus with the windows closed would receive an average exposure to diesel exhaust that is up to 4 times greater than a child riding in a passenger car immediately ahead of the same bus. A child riding a diesel school bus may be exposed to 23 to 46 times the cancer risk considered "significant" by EPA and under federal environmental laws.3 Diesel exhaust is believed to exacerbate asthmatic conditions, and while children make up only 25% of the population, they account for nearly 40% of all asthma cases. Research also indicates that diesel exhaust may increase vulnerability to allergens. Minor allergic reactions, to pollen for instance, may turn into major inflammatory and allergic responses when pollen and diesel exhaust exposures occur together."

What is your point? Sure, you may be saving money, but your gain is everyone else's loss.
 

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Yep - I love diesels but until this year driving a diesel in NA was a huge pollution issue as PPM on sulphur was 3,000 ppm as opposed to Europes 50 ppm.

NOW low sulphur is mandatory in NA - 15 ppm.
NOW diesel will make more sense.

My next vehicle will be a hitech diesel or diesel hybrid but up to this point - they were real smoggers. :cool:
 

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Why don't you 'get' my logic? I never said they were good for the environment or that the exhaust was safe to breathe! In fact, I could really care less, it saves me money.
 

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I've been driving diesels for years. Mixes of bio-diesel B5 in the winter all the way to straight B100 in the summer. Just as a point, B100 is zero sulphur and carbon neutral. The new diesels have particulate traps.
 

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Just for your amusement everybody: here, in the East of Scotland, we're paying around $2.20 (Can) per litre. And yet, people still joyride (young twits boosting their egos), and drive everywhere. The high prices haven't really been much of a deterrent to overall volume of traffic and degrees of laziness.
 

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Here in Vancouver I just filled up at 71.6 c/l But the prices have know to jump from that (or the lowest I have seen 68.1) back to 89.9 (or more) over night! That makes a prices difference of about 20 cents a litre. Or about 80 cents a gallon. Or about (sorry, it's all round math here) 70 cents U$ a gallon.

Do they actually get that kind of price fluctuation in the US? I don't think anyone would put up with it or try to get away with it. With smaller portions they can ride the ripples and make even more unnoticeable changes in the price. Ouch!

Also: Does the rest of Canada have this 'save 3.5 cents at the pump' thing? Or is it just here in Vancouver? There is a 3.5 cent difference in the price on the sign and the price at the pump. Why? I don't know. I just means you have to look at the posted price and then look for the other sign as you drive by. Why bother?
 

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Alberta has been subjected to the 3.5 cent discount at the pump for four or five years now.

It all started when Canada Safeway opened their first gas bars in Edmonton and Calgary and gave a coupon worth 3.5 cents a liter. The competition responded by posting one price on the sign and 3.5 cents less at the pump.

It is fundamentally stupid. I mean just who do they think they are fooling?

Cheers

 
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