Not geared particularily at board members - generally more with any eBay sale/private sales etc, I've always found it ridiculous when sellers make a note of "additional installed software" as leverage for their sale as an incentive or to further justify the price tag.
ehMax shouldn't have had to of even addressed the issue.
I agree 100%. The *ONLY* case against this, in my humble opinion, is if you've since lost the original CDs or if they are damaged/unusuable you could include a copy of the OS. But *ONLY* the OS. (No Mac should be sold without the ability to install an OS should the need arise).
As well, any OS earlier than Mac OS 8.5 is actually free to download now from Apple's site (Note: I could be off on the exact version number It might be earlier) since any OS older than that is no longer available anyway in a retail sense might be hard to come by. In a situation where original disks for the OS are unavailable, I'd say including a CD burn of one of these older OSes shoulc be deemed acceptable.
Certainly, original disks should be part of the deal.
And, as expected, I believe ehMax has the final say on any situation regarding this.
Re-selling a Power Mac G3 with a pre-installed system OS, so I think, is not illegal. Not only is it a crazy rule, but insanly annoying to the person who buys it from you. When you receive a used Mac from someone you bought it from, do you really want to hit the power button once it's setup and see a flashing question mark on a disk because no system OS is installed, simply because it's "illegal" to preinstall one? I sure wouldn't want that happening to me, especially if was a beginner who had no idea how to install a system OS, let alone boot from a system CD to do the job.
I will always resell my Macs with OS X and OS 9 preinstalled. No other software, but at least the OS - always.
Every Mac from Apple comes with Mac OS CD's and other CD's. Yes, the system should be pre-installed, but the original OS CD's should still be sold with the Mac. I certainly wouldn't buy a Mac without the original system CD's. Now if they were damaged or lost, that should be mentioned, it happens... and it's probably accepted to give a burnt copy of the system that came with the Mac.
Selling a Mac with an OS (or other software) that didn't come with it and not supplying the CDs is probably not a good practice.
"Officially" original install disks should accompany installed software for the owner to be a legitimate user. However, are we insisting that before selling a used computer that the HD should be wiped and only an older version of the OS be supplied? That may be an "ideal" scenerio, but in this age of music downloading, CD burning, install disks being sold after copying etc., that certainly puts the seller at a huge disatvantage if selling to a new user, even though that would be the correct thing to do. How many would say it's OK...I can't find the original disks, but it goes with the computer? I'd be willing to bet money that the majority of sellers would sell the computer "as is" with the responsibility of deleting software left to the conscience of the buyer. All who have never had liquor under age, smoked weed, driven over the speed limit, kept found items or lied, please stand up! (reality check)
How a person decides to sell their computer is obviously up to their own conscience (reminds me of another old thread), but when posting, software that will not include authorized install disks and/or documentation should NOT be mentioned, as this would be endorsing piracy.
I have found one (and where there's one there's bound to be more) software license agreement which stated that the only way the license can be transferred is if the new owner gets everything: manuals, CDs, certificate of authenticity, key chain, bumper sticker, and 3D glasses.
I think that ehMax is putting that disclaimer up to not only remind people that they should not advertise a system with 'pirated' software, but to keep him from getting into trouble if some corporation were to bitch at him about it. He's covering his ass and reminding us that we should be diligent sellers and buyers of computer software. He doesn't want to be an agent to the proliferation of 'pirated' or illegal software, and for that I say, "good for you."
Out of curiosity, does a Windoze PC include a full install OS CD? I believe the answer is no, but you can make install disks all 30(?) of them. The only trouble is, I believe there are some PC manufacturers who now sell a PC sans floppy drive (like Apple has since '98 ) so how are they supposed to manage?
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peter Scharman: "Officially" original install disks should accompany installed software for the owner to be a legitimate user. However, are we insisting that before selling a used computer that the HD should be wiped and only an older version of the OS be supplied?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think you hit the answer with your own closing response...
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peter Scharman: How a person decides to sell their computer is obviously up to their own conscience (reminds me of another old thread), but when posting, software that will not include authorized install disks and/or documentation should NOT be mentioned, as this would be endorsing piracy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As I mentioned in my earlier post, it's ridiculous when a seller makes an added effort by advertising "additional software" included as a means of leverage for their "incredible pkg deal".
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peter Scharman: All who have never had liquor under age, smoked weed, driven over the speed limit, kept found items or lied, please stand up! (reality check)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Reality is we all really did inhale, and had a heavy foot because 'there was an emergency'
But if your going to openly and make an additional effort by advertising these "perks" with your sale, your asking for a slap on the hand.
Relating to posting on the ehMac Trading Post, just don't post systems and list thousands of dollars worth of software (or a hundred dollars) and not indicate that original CD's and manuals come with. Thats my only main concern.
I'd expect to have a system come with original system CD's and able to boot up into the Mac OS.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peter Scharman: "Officially" original install disks should accompany installed software for the owner to be a legitimate user. However, are we insisting that before selling a used computer that the HD should be wiped and only an older version of the OS be supplied? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That would be the most legimate way. And wiping the HD and installing the MacOS is the fastest way to give the buyer a "clean" machine. I definitely don't want to sell a machine with my data on it, so if I'm cleaning off my data why not wipe the HD and reinstall the system.
Now I'll be the first one to admit that I've probably reinstalled a newer Mac OS then what the machine came with. Say 9.2.1 when the machine came with Mac OS 8.5.1 and that's probably a no-no. But I usually mention that it has Mac OS 9.2.1 installed and comes with Mac OS 8.5.1 original CDs.
But all-in-all, as everybody has stated above it's more the other commercial software that should not be included with the computer unless you have the CDs.
Ohhh... and I'm sure I've driven over the speed limit and drunk liquor under-age, etc. I'm no angel.
There are cases where a legitimate installation doesn't have an original CD associated with it. * Rather than concentrating on the details, any legally installed SW is, I'm sure, fine. I can't imaging the Mayor getting into a huff over something that is within the terms of the license.
I'm sure all of us know what that means, but perhaps it should be mentioned that a legally installed application should be deleted if the owner has no intention of transferring the license.
* I have plenty; a short list might include VPC5 and VPC6 upgrades, FWB Privacy Toolkit, or Alsoft DiscWarrior, which are available as a download only (and include license provisions to make a CDR copy) or with an extra-cost original disk. This probably wouldn't be a problem if some firms (are you listening Macromedia?) didn't charge up to a whopping $US 25 for shipping your original disk to Canada.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I used to buy downloaded sfw. Now I fork out the extra bucks and get the CD. Also I have no issues in case my Mac crashes.<HR></blockquote>
That's why I burn downloaded software onto CDs. It's cheaper than having a CD sent out. Also, some software is only available via download. For example, Marble Blast by Garage Games, which is a cool game. Their EULA says I'm allowed to "make one copy for backup purposes."
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