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Resident Curmudgeon
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86,945 Posts
what, Harper and co doesn't support our military? They wanna kill aerospace jobs? whaaaaa?
;)

Gee it's a wonder cons are suddenly silent about that "contract" we supposedly had.
I asked you many months ago to produce evidence that there was a 'contract' in place. You insisted we were committed and I stated there was no contract and our commitment could be changed. I guess once again your wisdom on federal politics has another hole in accessing the deal?
 

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peek-a-boo
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16,608 Posts
see the youtube I posted a page ago where Harper clearly said, there was a contract. Twice.

In public, right there for your viewing pleasure.
 

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Premium Member
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30,886 Posts
Y'know it always seems strange to me that "Harper can do no wrong" from the lap puppies.

about 65% of the voters think the guy is a joke and are disgusted by his approach to elections and governance but there is ZERO acknowledgement of that reality and the flawed democracy that allows it to happen.

How about criticism and praise where it is due instead of this knee jerk support from the right wing ideologues who can't see Harper's overspending that went on and is now finally being curbed in way that suits his ideology.

Not a peep about loading up the Senate with lame duck appointees, prorogation, enormous cabinet size, spending on no -big military project etc etc.

Naw - from them - "it's Harper he can do no wrong"

Horsepucky.....big time XX) :mad:

and they can't even blame the Liberals anymore.....
 

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CIO of CYA
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3,857 Posts
Major Test for the Auditor General Tomorrow

April 2nd, 2012

Tomorrow, one of two things will be reported by the Auditor General of Canada: that the minister is responsible for misleading Canadians about the procurement process of the F-35, or that the defence bureaucracy is responsible for misleading the minister about it. Only one of those things can be in the report. (Unless, of course, the Auditor pulls a really fast one and claims the government passes with an A grade.)
That report should decide the future career both of Auditor-General Michael Ferguson and Defence Minister Peter MacKay. If Ferguson finds MacKay responsible for the sham, MacKay must resign.
If Ferguson finds the bureaucrats responsible, then both MacKay and Ferguson must resign. MacKay, because of ministerial responsibility, something this government thinks is even faker than climate change. And Ferguson, because in order to produce such an appalling whitewash, he must have bowed to political pressure, something his office must never, never do. Frankly, with all of the staffers this government has thrown under the bus over the last six years, another “blame the bureaucrats” study lacks credibility.
I guess we’ll find out tomorrow.
The Sixth Estate » Major Test for the Auditor General Tomorrow

We live in interesting times.
 

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Premium Member
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17,976 Posts
A great comment on today's coverage of the F-35 boondoggle:

ibn batuta
8:22 AM on April 3, 2012

We own the second largest piece of political real estate on earth with a mere 33 million people living in it and we want to buy an aircraft that will let us invade and bomb the dickens out of other countries. Let's give our heads a shake.

The core problem here is the current government's incredible hubris,first exposed in its leader's statement that "we're an energy super power". The Conservatives have a deplorable record in aircraft development and purchasing. They destroyed the Avro Arrow program. Sinclair Stevens later sold off deHavilland's renowned STOL technology to Boeing (fortunately Bombardier, a company with little inferiority confidence problems, bought the technology back and became the world's third largest airframe developer. Their Q400 being a good example of that STOL technology.

The Conservative inferiority confidence problem relative to aircraft is because of their belief that the real game is played in the U.S. and that they are admirers of U.S. military symbols. Yet the U.S. has a deplorable record in the design of aircraft, the 'lead sled' in Viet Nam being a tragic example.

As for aircraft to replace the F-35 dud, a jack of all trades and master of none, so ill-thought out that they couldn't find a place to station the tail hook on a carrier version, the main gear being too close. There are many fighters with better performance figures, as well as having some stealth properties. The Eurofighter, Rafale, Super Hornet, any of the Sukhoi's, and even little Sweden's Gripen (alas single-engined) can do what our air force needs to do, which is protect us, the 33 million of us living in the world's second largest political real estate on earth. And they can do it for a lot less.

Let's deep six the hubris, and become our own country.
(Comment on the Globe & Mail article: Crash or burn? The Conservatives' F-35 dilemma )

 

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Premium Member
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17,976 Posts
Mr. Harper addressed none of this. Instead he offered two sentences that contradict much of what his government has been saying these last two years.

“I remind the leader of the opposition that the government has not yet purchased this airplane,” the Prime Minister declared. “It has not yet signed a contract.”

This has always been something of a farce. Not just because the Conservatives once said there was indeed a “contract” that guaranteed 65 warplanes at a price of no more than $9 billion. But because of all the ways the Prime Minister and his ministers sought to justify this demonstrably flimsy premise.
(MacLean's)
 

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peek-a-boo
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16,608 Posts
It seems this "contract" and Harper's proud flaunting of it, is something conservatives suddenly have amnesia about.

Harper lied.
 

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CIO of CYA
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3,857 Posts
If the military is so out of control that it no longer has to answer to competent responsible government, then the entire leadership of the military needs to be sacked now, before things get even worse. If the Cabinet minister responsible for the military is so deceitful and craven that he would lie about his own responsibility and try to fob off the entire thing on his department, then he should respond.
Either way, the fact that someone evidently attempted to sneak $10-$15 billion past Parliament by hiding the true figures and submitting false ones to Parliament means that somebody needs to be fired. Preferably a lot of people. If the Prime Minister refuses to do so, what he is saying is that he really doesn’t mind if Cabinet ministers and their governments lose literally billions of dollars through shady accounting. That doesn’t exactly square with the “ruthless budget cutting” we’ve been hearing about lately.
It’s worth thinking back to last year. The reason the government was held in contempt of Parliament was because they were refusing to provide costing details on the F-35 jet fighter. Now, the Auditor General would have us believe that they couldn’t supply the true details to Parliament because the military wasn’t supplying the details to them. Yeah, right.
Auditor-General Picks Door No. 2

The rest of the article is just as blunt.


Nearly 80 per cent of Canadians who are aware of the Conservative government’s plan to spend at least $9-billion to buy F-35 stealth fighter jets believe the project should be scrapped, a public opinion poll taken the day after last week’s federal budget found.

The Forum Research survey found only one in five Canadians of voting age supported the F-35 acquisition, which Parliamentary Budget Officer Kevin Page has estimated will cost nearly $18-billion including lifespan maintenance for what was to have been a fleet of 65 new fighter jets to replace Canada’s aging CF-18 Hornets.
Canadians want F-35 purchase scrapped: Forum Research poll
 

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Premium Member
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17,775 Posts
Harper's lips moved. He's a successful politician; all he can do is lie.

The question is, are his motives congruent with the interests of Canada; and I'd say the answer is an unequivocal "NO".
Yep that is pretty much the definition of a politician. As far as I know "Honest Politician" is still the most widely recognized oxymoron in the English language.
 

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Premium Member
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11,953 Posts
Does Canada needs some jets? Probably.
Does Canada need THIS jet? Nope.

Tell you what, though, it's a diverse country with different views -- how about we split the difference?

Let's buy some cheaper but more effective jets, and use the money we saved to get a working submarine or two. WIN WIN. :)
 

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peek-a-boo
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16,608 Posts
Harper's lips moved. He's a successful politician; all he can do is lie.

The question is, are his motives congruent with the interests of Canada; and I'd say the answer is an unequivocal "NO".
clearly. His motives have obviously been in the best interests of Alberta, and I think people are just starting to catch on to this. Their song and dance of blaming premiers will only work for so long before people tire of it.

And you can only keep the ideologues bottled for so long. It eventually starts busting at the seams (already happening), which inevitably happens with any party in a majority government.

It wouldn't have been as bad had Harper been kept to a minority.
 

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CIO of CYA
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3,857 Posts
I asked you many months ago to produce evidence that there was a 'contract' in place. You insisted we were committed and I stated there was no contract and our commitment could be changed. I guess once again your wisdom on federal politics has another hole in accessing the deal?
This article demonstrates that the word contract was being used by the Government to describe the deal.

For example;

Peter MacKay, December 13, 2010. Mr. Speaker, let us look at the actual contract. What the Canadian government has committed to is a $9 billion contract for the acquisition of 65 fifth generation aircraft.
Semantics in 3 . 2. 1. .. ;)
 

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Premium Member
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17,775 Posts
clearly. His motives have obviously been in the best interests of Alberta, and I think people are just starting to catch on to this. Their song and dance of blaming premiers will only work for so long before people tire of it.

And you can only keep the ideologues bottled for so long. It eventually starts busting at the seams (already happening), which inevitably happens with any party in a majority government.

It wouldn't have been as bad had Harper been kept to a minority.
Nope his interests parallel those of his Billionaire buddies. At the moment those buddies happen to be Alberta Oil types but I suspect the highest bidder will always prevail.
 

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peek-a-boo
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16,608 Posts
Nope his interests parallel those of his Billionaire buddies. At the moment those buddies happen to be Alberta Oil types but I suspect the highest bidder will always prevail.
Probably true, but let's remember the 'firewall around Alberta' thing.
 

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Honourable Citizen?
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4,853 Posts
Mulcair said in the House yesterday that the Harper government is either lying or incompetent.

I have to take exception to this characterization. Mulcair is wrong.

It's been shown beyond a doubt that the Harper government is both lying AND incompetent.
 
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