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peek-a-boo
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the conservatives seem to realize, that all they have to do, is say it as if it were true, and people will believe them. Then shout and point the finger if anyone dares to question this.

Kind of a familiar theme with some I encounter.
 

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Premium Member
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17,759 Posts
the conservatives seem to realize, that all they have to do, is say it as if it were true, and people will believe them. Then shout and point the finger if anyone dares to question this.

Kind of a familiar theme with some I encounter.
Yep they learned that from the old Fuddle Duddle himself. The liar may be red or blue, but the effect is equally as irritating.
 

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peek-a-boo
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16,509 Posts
you're right, though I think the er, "new" conservatives have taken it to a new level. The lies now are practically a daily occurrence, nothing to see here move along. Y'know.
;)
 

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Army Mac
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25 Posts
Nope. What we need is new uniforms. I can't get any because there isn't any money left to purchase new ones.
 

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peek-a-boo
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16,509 Posts
cfb petawawa, my dad was stationed there when I was kindergarten. Think the school was pinecrest or something that.
 

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Army Mac
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Pinecrest is still here. I went to it too. Same with General Panet And Rivercrest(Now St. Francis Of Assisi) The only school that is gone is L'colnel Forbes. They demolished it a few years ago.

As for the town, not much has changed. Just a lot more houses.
 

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peek-a-boo
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16,509 Posts
wonder how many uniforms could have been bought with the one billion dollar boondoggle photo op g20/g8 or the 50 million for gazebos.

Or the 12 billion on corp tax cuts that was supposed to create jobs, but never did. The liberals cut and ignore, the conservatives say they're gonna, but spend wads on everything else.
 

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Army Mac
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25 Posts
Pretty much man. I pay taxes too.. (Around 1/4 of my total pay a month) so I complain just like anyone else.

It was like as soon as we pulled out of Afgan the money went with it. Or so it seems. Probably reallocated or something.

But I will admit that this is probably one of the best times there has been to be in the forces.

I wonder how many doctors/nurses/etc that money from the g8/20 could have hired on?

Back to the topic.. Yes. The CF18 is aging. She's a good solid bird, but it is getting old. Do I think the F35 is a valid replacement? No. I don't personally see why we need brand new fighters when we have subs sitting in dry-dock waiting moneys for repairs and the sea kings being patched together with gun tape.

Each aircraft costs $90m ish (Ref:The F-35 jet cost controversy: now we're getting somewhere - Capital Read, John Geddes - Macleans.ca )

90 million dollars. Each.

Im looking at the LAV3 (Its our primary fighting vehicle, each unit costs roughly $1.4mil to #1.5 million each.

So for each F35 we purchase. We could have bought 60 LAV3 fighting vehicles. And probably have enough change for a whole slew of new personal equipment. Boots, rucksacks, nice warm coats, etc...

I see the reasoning behind replacing the CF18, but personally I think they need to take a deeper look into what the CF really needs instead of listing to pilots whining and crying.
 

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peek-a-boo
Joined
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16,509 Posts
Pretty much man. I pay taxes too.. (Around 1/4 of my total pay a month) so I complain just like anyone else.

It was like as soon as we pulled out of Afgan the money went with it. Or so it seems. Probably reallocated or something.

But I will admit that this is probably one of the best times there has been to be in the forces.

I wonder how many doctors/nurses/etc that money from the g8/20 could have hired on?

Back to the topic.. Yes. The CF18 is aging. She's a good solid bird, but it is getting old. Do I think the F35 is a valid replacement? No. I don't personally see why we need brand new fighters when we have subs sitting in dry-dock waiting moneys for repairs and the sea kings being patched together with gun tape.

Each aircraft costs $90m ish (Ref:The F-35 jet cost controversy: now we're getting somewhere - Capital Read, John Geddes - Macleans.ca )

90 million dollars. Each.

Im looking at the LAV3 (Its our primary fighting vehicle, each unit costs roughly $1.4mil to #1.5 million each.

So for each F35 we purchase. We could have bought 60 LAV3 fighting vehicles. And probably have enough change for a whole slew of new personal equipment. Boots, rucksacks, nice warm coats, etc...

I see the reasoning behind replacing the CF18, but personally I think they need to take a deeper look into what the CF really needs instead of listing to pilots whining and crying.
h ha I think I heard my dad say the same thing. :lmao:
 

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Premium Member
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6,076 Posts
I see the reasoning behind replacing the CF18, but personally I think they need to take a deeper look into what the CF really needs instead of listing to pilots whining and crying.
The CF-18 is definitely getting old, but there's no reason we can't replace it with the Super Hornet.

Half the price, 30 years newer tech, and they wouldn't have to redesign the unit patches.
 

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Army Mac
Joined
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25 Posts
My opinion does not reflect the opinion of the CF, but is my own personal opinion.

Another interesting point to chew on.

The only times where I get to be around aircraft or work with them is refuelling and SNIC operations. (Snow removal, Ice control, basically caring for the runways)

Now one thing I know is fuel. Canadian F-37 grade fuel is more then capable of being useable way up in the frozen north. It works. The f-35 carries about 18 thousand pounds of it in its internal fuel tanks, which gives it a very appreciable combat range of roughly 2200km. Exactly how they figure out the range, I don't know. I assume combat range would mean a full payload of weaponry, and cruising at top speed without afterburner and some fighting.

Another thing I know is, that wherever this aircraft takes off from, its gotta have enough fuel to get back home. So half that range. 1100km.

The closest Air force base we have capable of taking these fighters is Cold Lake Alberta. Thats pretty far north. Now if you happen to have google earth on your mac, you can use the wonderful ruler tool to measure out just how far this fighter can reach. And for those who don't, Ill fill you in.

The f35 won't reach all of our northern territory. In face you can get to almost 3/4 of the way up the hudson bay, and maybe 2/5ths of the way to CFS Alert our northernmost base.

So if theres an 'enemy' aircraft coming in over the north pole, they are pretty much going to be most of the way in Canada before the f-35 can even reach it.

Sure, you could put wing tanks on the f-35 for a bit more fuel to go, but the extra 2000pounds of fuel isn't going to go far in a combat scenario.

The only alternative that I can see is to have the f-35's launch from some point even more north, which translates into a new airbase. Thats going to be an expensive option.

Even if you consider, maybe there is oh.. I don't know. non canadian whaling ships up there or something. What will the f-35 do? Fly past at high speed? Maybe something more viable is to have some attack helicopters in the fleet. (We have 0) Have them posted in alert if northern sovereignty is a huge priority. Id bet that maybe a Canadian Helicopter company would be more then happy to whip something up for less money then 90m an aircraft.

Sorry if its a rant. When I go our on the road in uniform, the Canadian public do not see Mr. Howard, they see a representative of the military that serves them. I take pride in what I do because I enjoy working for the Canadian public, and it disappoints me when politicians make me look like more of a moron then what I do all by myself. XD
 

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Hoes R US
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1,925 Posts
Welcome Cpl Howard.

Good to see members of the military questioning idiotic expenditures here on ehMac. I have several neighbours who work either directly or indirectly for DND and they all have severe reservations about investing in piloted planes when drones are the future.

It looks like whatever deal NATo thought they had is quickly unravelling due to the expense.
 

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Army Mac
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25 Posts
Welcome Cpl Howard.

Good to see members of the military questioning idiotic expenditures here on ehMac. I have several neighbours who work either directly or indirectly for DND and they all have severe reservations about investing in piloted planes when drones are the future.

It looks like whatever deal NATo thought they had is quickly unravelling due to the expense.
I'm not sure about the drones myself, just because Ive never dealt with them and don't know a thing about them, other then the fact that they are pretty neat looking. :D

The thing I'm getting at is that the f-35 might be a viable replacement for the aging cf-18, but it shouldn't be purchased under the guise of protecting canada's north and I think there are other, cheaper alternatives that will work better, like the Eurofighter Typhoon, Superhornet, etc..

My uneducated thought on it is, this is just a thinly disguised US economic stimulus package.
 

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Premium Member
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17,956 Posts
The news of the F-35's future continues to grow bleaker...

Australia reviews F-35 purchase timetable

Australia is reviewing its timetable for buying 12 troubled F-35 Joint Strike Fighters, the defence minister said Monday after the United States announced a rethink of its purchase schedule for the futuristic warplanes.
Australian Defence Minister Stephen Smith said Monday that Canberra is only contractually obligated to take delivery of two of the warplanes. They will be based in the United States and be available from 2014 for training Australian pilots.

Smith said Australia is reconsidering its schedule of buying another 12 during the following three years.
...the cost of the program has jumped to $385 billion US from $233 billion. Some estimates suggest that it could top out at $1 trillion over 50 years.

Australia had planned to buy as many as 100 of the fighters for $17 billion.
Australia last year took delivery of the last four of 24 F/A-18F Super Hornets.
(CBC)
 

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peek-a-boo
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16,509 Posts
It's so'kay they founds teh moneys under teh seniors mattresses.
 

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Premium Member
Joined
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17,759 Posts
My opinion does not reflect the opinion of the CF, but is my own personal opinion.

Another interesting point to chew on.

The only times where I get to be around aircraft or work with them is refuelling and SNIC operations. (Snow removal, Ice control, basically caring for the runways)

Now one thing I know is fuel. Canadian F-37 grade fuel is more then capable of being useable way up in the frozen north. It works. The f-35 carries about 18 thousand pounds of it in its internal fuel tanks, which gives it a very appreciable combat range of roughly 2200km. Exactly how they figure out the range, I don't know. I assume combat range would mean a full payload of weaponry, and cruising at top speed without afterburner and some fighting.

Another thing I know is, that wherever this aircraft takes off from, its gotta have enough fuel to get back home. So half that range. 1100km.

The closest Air force base we have capable of taking these fighters is Cold Lake Alberta. Thats pretty far north. Now if you happen to have google earth on your mac, you can use the wonderful ruler tool to measure out just how far this fighter can reach. And for those who don't, Ill fill you in.

The f35 won't reach all of our northern territory. In face you can get to almost 3/4 of the way up the hudson bay, and maybe 2/5ths of the way to CFS Alert our northernmost base.

So if theres an 'enemy' aircraft coming in over the north pole, they are pretty much going to be most of the way in Canada before the f-35 can even reach it.

Sure, you could put wing tanks on the f-35 for a bit more fuel to go, but the extra 2000pounds of fuel isn't going to go far in a combat scenario.

The only alternative that I can see is to have the f-35's launch from some point even more north, which translates into a new airbase. Thats going to be an expensive option.

Even if you consider, maybe there is oh.. I don't know. non canadian whaling ships up there or something. What will the f-35 do? Fly past at high speed? Maybe something more viable is to have some attack helicopters in the fleet. (We have 0) Have them posted in alert if northern sovereignty is a huge priority. Id bet that maybe a Canadian Helicopter company would be more then happy to whip something up for less money then 90m an aircraft.

Sorry if its a rant. When I go our on the road in uniform, the Canadian public do not see Mr. Howard, they see a representative of the military that serves them. I take pride in what I do because I enjoy working for the Canadian public, and it disappoints me when politicians make me look like more of a moron then what I do all by myself. XD
Believe me you are not coming across as a moron. Our politicians are of course another matter entirely.

BTW excellent post.
 

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Registered
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6,415 Posts
Sorry if its a rant.
Not at all rant-like. And even if it was, your informed opinion is very valuable to me.

When I go our on the road in uniform, the Canadian public do not see Mr. Howard, they see a representative of the military that serves them. I take pride in what I do because I enjoy working for the Canadian public, and it disappoints me when politicians make me look like more of a moron then what I do all by myself. XD
Something I wish I could communicate to all of our soldiers is that I have the utmost respect for you and the sacrifices you are willing to make on behalf of our country. So please understand that when I say I don't support some specific mission, it's not *you* that I'm not supporting, it's the brain-dead decisions about how you're being deployed.

I think what makes this very hard is that, in order to do your job, you have to be convinced you're doing the right thing. So you've all been trained to have faith in your chain of command. Unfortunately, at the top of that chain is politics. So when you folks are put in harm's way, and you hear that many Canadians are not convinced you should be there, it may feel like your countrymen are not supporting you. But that's not what's going on.

It's entirely possible to support the troops without supporting the missions.
 

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Seriously?
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4,442 Posts
The CF-18 is definitely getting old, but there's no reason we can't replace it with the Super Hornet.

Half the price, 30 years newer tech, and they wouldn't have to redesign the unit patches.
Even if you consider, maybe there is oh.. I don't know. non canadian whaling ships up there or something. What will the f-35 do? Fly past at high speed? Maybe something more viable is to have some attack helicopters in the fleet. (We have 0) Have them posted in alert if northern sovereignty is a huge priority. Id bet that maybe a Canadian Helicopter company would be more then happy to whip something up for less money then 90m an aircraft.
I like both ideas.
 
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