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Premium Member
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Actually what Canada should have done is had it's own competition to have someone design a aircraft for our needs and produce it in Canada. I don't care if a Canadian, American, British, or French company won it, as long as the competition was open to Canadian companies, the jets are built in Canada, and the cost is 1/2 to 3/4 of the F-35.
Excellent idea. This puts me in mind of the Keystone pipeline, for that matter; wouldn't Canada's interests be served by refining the stuff here and then sending it down to the Americans? More jobs here and we could build up our own expertise in the energy sector. We should be hard-bargaining on these and other matters.
 

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Premium Member
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Initial F-35 jets could be unable to track troops, talk to older planes

The first dozen or so F-35s slated to arrive in Canada won't be equipped with software that allows the stealth fighters to communicate with ground forces, a feature designed to prevent incidents of friendly fire.

The initial operating system also won't be equipped with a program that helps the fighters communicate with older aircraft, such as the Air Force's Aurora surveillance planes.
The software isn't expected to be added until an upgrade program is introduced in 2019 – three years after the Royal Canadian Air Force begins taking delivery the advanced multi-role fighter.

The absence of both items in the initial operating system is alluded to in heavily censored access-to-information documents, obtained by The Canadian Press and referenced in military publications in the United States.
(Globe & Mail)

Let me see if I have this straight...

  • no engines = can't fly out-of-the-box
  • no satellite communications for Arctic service
  • no software for air-to-ground forces communication
  • no communications with existing CF-18s

...am I missing anything? Man, what a deal!

XX)
 

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The Canadian government claims it will only have to pay $75 million per plane. Yet it is inconceivable that a cash-strapped U.S. Congress would tolerate a multi-billion dollar subsidy to Canada. The Pentagon has earmarked $151 million for each of its planes, while the US Government Accounting Office is projecting an actual cost of $156 million.
(The Tyee.ca)
 

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It's typical also that Jim Flaherty is now calling on all of Canada today that it's time to
tighten our belts and to pay down Canada's debt. Doeh?
 

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...and it just keeps getting worse, folks...

The Pentagon official in charge of the F-35 project said major cracks and "hot spots" have been discovered in the stealth fighter's airframe, creating a fresh challenge to Canada's plan to acquire 65 F-35s for $9 billion.

At the same time, analysts south of the border expect more delays and cost issues to arise when the U.S. defense secretary unveils a massively downsized military budget sometime in the next couple of months.

In an interview with AOL Defense published Thursday, U.S. Vice-Admiral David Venlet said Pentagon officials were surprised by the extent of the problems discovered in the fighter's structure during recent testing.
(Vancouver Sun)

Read the whole article - I particularly like the line calling the F-35 the "low-hanging fruit" in the Pentagon's cost-cutting exercise, part of the massive budget cuts that the U.S. government has to do following the demise of the "supercommittee".

If the Conservatives go ahead with this purchase, we're going to have a very, very expensive white elephant on our backs...
 

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Well we need 65 of them to fly McKay around to his fishing holes after all. :rolleyes:
 

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Tritium Glow
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Perhaps it's the Norwegians...

While expressing concerns about the U.S. government's commitment to the F-35 program, a senior Norwegian official told a parliamentary committee Thursday his government is committed to purchasing the stealth fighters, and he encouraged Canada to follow suit.
Norway urges Canada to buy F-35s
 

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peek-a-boo
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said his government has already ordered four F-35s for training purposes, the first of which will be delivered in 2018. Norway plans to buy about 52.

Read more: Norway urges Canada to buy F-35s
They're ordering 4. They "plan" to buy 52 more er, later... but haven't ordered them.

Perhaps that's what Canada should do since we're supposed to be tightening our belts, and not blowing gobs of billions and growing government bigger....
 

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Perhaps that's what Canada should do since we're supposed to be tightening our belts, and not blowing gobs of billions and growing government bigger....
Great plan. Let our air force use 40-year-old plus aircraft on patrol when our northern borders are being called into question. Sure. Yup.
 

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peek-a-boo
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Great plan. Let our air force use 40-year-old plus aircraft on patrol when our northern borders are being called into question. Sure. Yup.
your sarcasm would have at least -some- credibility if these new jets were even useful for the purpose you pointed to. Apparently, not so much.
 

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Canuck of Enlightenment
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Great plan. Let our air force use 40-year-old plus aircraft on patrol when our northern borders are being called into question. Sure. Yup.
Ya, cause there is nothing else capable of patrolling our borders, for sale out there.:rolleyes:

ie. euro fighter
su 37
 

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Perhaps it's the Norwegians...



Norway urges Canada to buy F-35s
Actually you might want to edit your post to "Perhaps it's the NorwegiaN.... as in singular, not plural. There is a huge controversy in that country about the F-35 in that country (as there should be, and as the article points out) and it's not quite a done deal there either. But one thing I have to give credit to the Norwegian Government for is at least they're being HONEST in forecasting the cost to the people of the country. Both Canada & Norway are supposed to buy the same model of F-35....The Harper Government is saying 65 planes will cost $16 Billion, and Norway is saying 52 planes will cost $40 Billion.

But you should keep buying Harper's fudged math and be happy......

Great plan. Let our air force use 40-year-old plus aircraft on patrol when our northern borders are being called into question. Sure. Yup.
Or we could buy Super Hornets for less than 1/3 of the cost and have a plane with twin engines that can actually fly in cold weather.

I think the main question is, Can an F35 land at a fishing camp?
Only if that fishing camp is in the middle east. That's where the F-35 is designed to fly.
 

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Tritium Glow
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A
But you should keep buying Harper's fudged math and be happy......
Any special reason you'd direct that at me? I don't believe I've let my views known in this or any other thread?

Reality is, that I'd support a purchase of F/A 18 Es and Ds for the interim and F35s if and when there's any money left provided all the issues have been resolved and costed out. I'm also in favour of nuclear submarines and better Arctic patrolling using the appropriate equipment. I am not in favour of Nato missions which drain resources already lacking or which are needed in more important areas.
 

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Reality is, that I'd support a purchase of F/A 18 Es and Ds for the interim and F35s if and when there's any money left provided all the issues have been resolved and costed out. I'm also in favour of nuclear submarines and better Arctic patrolling using the appropriate equipment. I am not in favour of Nato missions which drain resources already lacking or which are needed in more important areas.
Can't find a thing to disagree with here...
 

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Premium Member
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Any special reason you'd direct that at me? I don't believe I've let my views known in this or any other thread?

Reality is, that I'd support a purchase of F/A 18 Es and Ds for the interim and F35s if and when there's any money left provided all the issues have been resolved and costed out. I'm also in favour of nuclear submarines and better Arctic patrolling using the appropriate equipment. I am not in favour of Nato missions which drain resources already lacking or which are needed in more important areas.
I share your views. Sadly I believe King Harpo will happily follow wherever BO aka Bush III leadeth.

One can only hope he does not share the contempt of the Constitution and Bill of Rights recently shown by the entire US Congress.
 

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Vorlon Ambassador
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Reality is, that I'd support a purchase of F/A 18 Es and Ds for the interim and F35s if and when there's any money left provided all the issues have been resolved and costed out.
I think you mean F/A 18 Es and Fs. Boeing made their last F/A 18 Hornet D in 2000. I don't think they manufacture the Hornet anymore. Instead they make the Super Hornet, which is bigger and better.

I see India had an interesting competition as well and compared 6 planes:
Indian MRCA competition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Could you imagine Canada flying MiG-35s? :eek:
 

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The F-35 is looking more and more like one great, big turkey.

Trillion-Dollar Jet Has Thirteen Expensive New Flaws

The most expensive weapons program in U.S. history is about to get a lot pricier.

The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, meant to replace nearly every tactical warplane in the Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps, was already expected to cost $1 trillion dollars for development, production and maintenance over the next 50 years. Now that cost is expected to grow, owing to 13 different design flaws uncovered in the last two months by a hush-hush panel of five Pentagon experts. It could cost up to a billion dollars to fix the flaws on copies of the jet already in production, to say nothing of those yet to come.

In addition to costing more, the stealthy F-35 could take longer to complete testing. That could delay the stealthy jet’s combat debut to sometime after 2018 — seven years later than originally planned.
(WIRED)
 

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In the dictionary, beside the word "joke" is the political biography of Defense Minister Faustino...

F-35: Canada's Air Commander Contradicts Julian Fantino On Moving Jet Training Home

Canadian fighter pilots will be training on the F-35 jet in Florida for almost a decade and the military will have to study how to set up a similar program at home, says the country's top air commander.

The comments by Lt.-Gen. Andre Deschamps stand in contrast to the iron-clad assurances Julian Fantino, Prime Minister Stephen Harper's associate defence minister, gave the House of Commons last month when it was first revealed stealth fighter instruction would take place in the U.S.
...he dismissed NDP questions about the training program.

"The member should know that in order to get traction (on a story), he should have his facts straight," Fantino told New Democrat defence critic David Christopherson.

"Long-term training on the F-35s will take place in Canada, just as currently is done with the CF-18s. It is reasonable that Canadians will do initial training with those from whom we purchase the aircraft, which has always been the case."

In fact, air force internal documents also contradict his assurances and state there is the "potential for NO pilot training in Canada," and suggest that a "pooled" training system with international partners is likely the most cost-effective plan.

Indeed, that is how the U.S. manufacturer, Lockheed Martin, sees instruction unfolding and it has poured millions of dollars into a state-of-the-art centre at Eglin Air Force Base.
(HuffingtonPostCanada)
 
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