Canadian Mac Forums at ehMac banner

361 - 376 of 376 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,273 Posts
Stupid.

While I'm no fan of the F35, purchasing someone else's used fighters puts us back into the very same position we're currently in.

Canada moves toward buying Australian fighter jets, upping ante in trade dispute with Boeing
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,956 Posts
So - two issues relating to Canada's threat to buy Australian F-18 warplanes:

1/ The US government can kabosh the deal, given that the design is "owned" by the USA.

2/ "Australia's defence materiel group produced a scathing report in 2012 noting that the country's FA-18s were rapidly running out of airframe life and required bigger and bigger slices of the maintenance budget. "The incidence of discovery of airframe corrosion in the Hornet fleet is increasing, and the annual cost of corrosion‐related repairs has increased significantly," said the report, which Layton said was considered "too critical" by the defence establishment." (CBC)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,759 Posts
Stupid.

While I'm no fan of the F35, purchasing someone else's used fighters puts us back into the very same position we're currently in.
Did we learn nothing from the submarine fiasco?:confused::confused::confused:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,273 Posts
Did we learn nothing from the submarine fiasco?:confused::confused::confused:
A gov't learn from past mistakes? <snort>

That's like expecting the public to learn from past gov'ts...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,956 Posts
Did we learn nothing from the submarine fiasco?:confused::confused::confused:
Seriously, eh? Those ex-British rusted tin cans that leaked like a sieve whenever they got within sniffing distance of salt water? I remember living in Halifax, and seeing one of 'em docked below the Dartmouth side of the MacDonald bridge. Every day. For years. No idea whatever happened to it... And for those who might not remember, one Canadian submariner was killed, two others injured, before the damn thing even left UK waters...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
674 Posts
So - two issues relating to Canada's threat to buy Australian F-18 warplanes:

1/ The US government can kabosh the deal, given that the design is "owned" by the USA.
The US can't block the sale. Included in arms deals is a transfer of technology clause. Designed to stop a country from reselling to another country that the US has issue with receiving secret level equipment and/or is not a nation they want to do business with. Doesn't really apply to us due to the age of the equipment and our position as an ally.

2/ "Australia's defence materiel group produced a scathing report in 2012 noting that the country's FA-18s were rapidly running out of airframe life and required bigger and bigger slices of the maintenance budget. "The incidence of discovery of airframe corrosion in the Hornet fleet is increasing, and the annual cost of corrosion‐related repairs has increased significantly," said the report, which Layton said was considered "too critical" by the defence establishment." (CBC)
That report has been superseded by a newer 2015 study that found the jets in substantially better shape than previously reported.

At best we would buy these planes for parts, spares and to alternate flying hours. Our problem here is not just the jets. We also don't have pilots. So yes the jets are old but if we add to our fleet we can put less hours on the wings by rotating the planes.

I guess as a stop gap until we eventually cave and buy F-35s in 2025 or sooner. Or Boeing changes their mind about not caring about the Superhornet sale.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,593 Posts
So yes the jets are old but if we add to our fleet we can put less hours on the wings by rotating the planes.

Alternatively they could just let the pilots keep up with their training by providing them with some land based flight simulators…

and they get much better fuel consumption as another benefit… :eek:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,273 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,273 Posts
The F-35 Is Not Peace Through Strength, But Weakness Through Bureaucratic Misconception

he F-35 was supposed to be America’s most advanced fighter jet ever. But it has become the most expensive defense procurement program ever, through bureaucratic misconception and mismanagement. Estimated to cost taxpayers $1 trillion for this one weapon system alone over its lifetime.

The potential was enormous for America’s national defense. It was the chance to use the latest technology to build a weapon that would win every battle the defense bureaucrats could imagine, before it even started.
Bold mine.

No such thing as a one trick pony...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
674 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,273 Posts
The Liberals are spending another $70M on a jet they don't want to want

In case you missed it, the federal government has chosen to dedicate another $70 million to developing a jet fighter plane it doesn’t want to want.

Compared with the billions being thrown around on anything to do with the coronavirus, $70 million rates as chickenfeed. But it brings the tab for the F-35 stealth fighter jet to $541 million to date. This for a plane Stephen Harper’s Conservatives made plain was their choice for the military’s flying forces, to replace what are regularly referred to as “Canada’s aging CF-18s,” but which Liberals, when in opposition, denounced as a disaster waiting to happen, vowing to immediately cancel the contract should they ever come to power.
Bold mine.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,956 Posts
1/ The F-35 was then, and remains today, the absolute wrong aircraft for the Canadian Air Force. That it remains a desirable choice for some simply tells us that interoperability with the US/NATO forces (essential to further the empire's expansion abroad) is more important to those folks than having an aircraft that serves Canada's domestic defence requirements of long-range, northern climate capable interceptors. But a lot of this can be traced back to the era of the Avro Arrow, and Canada's subjugation to the U.S. military industrial complex that saw our domestic manufacturing capabilities undermined and eventually dismantled under later Free Trade agreements.

2/ The Conservatives and the Liberals alike have badly mismanaged the replacement programme. Lots of blame to go around.

3/ The argument used by the government:

... paying for development means Canada qualifies for “preferential pricing” and a prime spot in the construction schedule should the jet eventually win out over rivals from Boeing and Saab. (Airbus, another potential bidder, dropped last August after deciding the cost of meeting Norad security requirements was too high.)

In addition to discounts and quick delivery — much like you’d get from Costco in return for proof of loyalty — Ottawa points out that pumping money into the F-35 means jobs for Canadians. Defence department spokesman Daniel Le Bouthillier told The Canadian Press that Canada’s cut of the development pie adds up to $1.8 billion so far.​

Is to a degree, valid. Not to those of us who see the F-35 as a complete boondoggle, of course. But it's an argument that can certainly be made that the investment is worth the associated benefits. And if the Conservatives come back into power and decide to sole-source Lockheed, then they're in better shape when making that purchase (anyone know if they've made any commitment on fighter jet replacements in their platform?).

4/ Canada needs to grow a pair when it comes to defence spending. Smaller countries than ours have managed to properly equip the military while not impoverishing the country. Our relationship with the USA is the fly in the ointment. We could have a coastal defence -air and sea- to be proud of, rather than these death-trap used submarines, interminable shipbuilding campaigns, and ludicrous aircraft (of all kinds) replacement projects. Step #1 is refusing to waste our resources at the behest of US military operations that are only to the detriment of Canada's national interests.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
42,470 Posts
There's a good thought exercise. Once you complete Step 1, how do YOU propose to manage Canada's defence spending effectively?

4/ Canada needs to grow a pair when it comes to defence spending. Smaller countries than ours have managed to properly equip the military while not impoverishing the country. Our relationship with the USA is the fly in the ointment. We could have a coastal defence -air and sea- to be proud of, rather than these death-trap used submarines, interminable shipbuilding campaigns, and ludicrous aircraft (of all kinds) replacement projects. Step #1 is refusing to waste our resources at the behest of US military operations that are only to the detriment of Canada's national interests.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,593 Posts
But a lot of this can be traced back to the era of the Avro Arrow, and Canada's subjugation to the U.S. military industrial complex that saw our domestic manufacturing capabilities undermined and eventually dismantled under later Free Trade agreements.

That's one of the the biggest F*Ups that really screwed things up for Canada, PLUS the fact of losing one of the Best-Designed planes ever, that we will never recover from.




- Patrick
======
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,956 Posts
Boeing Shows Super Hornets Bristling With 14 Missiles In Formal Sales Pitch To Canada


Boeing has formally submitted its Block III F/A-18E/F Super Hornet to the Royal Canadian Air Force's competition to select its next fighter jet. The company also released concept art of the configuration it is pitching to the Canadians, which shows aircraft equipped with conformal fuel tanks, carrying a podded infrared search and track sensor, and armed with an impressive 12 AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles and a pair of shorter-range AIM-9X Sidewinders. Lockheed Martin is also competing with its F-35 Joint Strike Fighter and Saab has submitted its Gripen E.

The Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) is hoping to receive 88 new fighter jets to replace its existing CF-18A/B+ Hornets under what is officially known as the Future Fighter Capability Project (FFCP). Canada's Public Services and Procurement department announced that it had received all three formal proposals on July 31, 2020. The final contract could be worth between 15 and 19 Billion Canadian dollars

* * *

Boeing, which for a time looked like it might get shut out of the Canadian fighter jet competition over a tangential trade dispute, could actually have a leg up in the competition because of its long history working with the RCAF and its CF-18A/B+ fleet. The company's offer is "leveraging existing infrastructure to drive down the long-term sustainment cost of the aircraft," Barnes, the Director of Canada Fighter Sales, added in his statement. This is true in that there is an extensive commonality between the legacy Hornet and Super Hornet that goes far beyond hardware. Training and sustainment, in particular, enjoys substantial continuity between the two types.

Still, the Super Hornet offer is likely to face significant competition for the final contract, especially from Lockheed Martin's F-35.

* * *

The concept art that Lockheed Martin released along with its proposal notably shows F-35A variants with an optional drag chute installed on top of the rear fuselage. Lockheed Martin developed this feature first for Norway's F-35As, which is intended to help with landings on runways covered in snow or ice. The RCAF similarly operates from bases in areas where these weather conditions, as well as extremely low ambient temperatures, are common.

* * *

Saab's Gripen E is certainly more of a dark horse contender. The Swedish aviation company has been promoting significant potential industrial cooperation as a key component of Gripen offers to Canada and other prospective buyers, as well.

* * *

Gripen was designed to operate highly efficiently from austere conditions by small teams in cold climates, something that Canada could find attractive.

Canadian authorities hope to pick the winner of the FFCP competition in 2022. The goal is to have the first new fighter jet touch down in the country in 2025.

 
361 - 376 of 376 Posts
Top