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CIO of CYA
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Conservative MPs have rejected a public debate about which bureaucrats and military officers will appear in front of parliamentarians to discuss the F-35 controversy, including allegations that some of them misled cabinet ministers and Canadians.

Conservatives block debate over who will testify in F-35 investigation

Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his Cabinet had to know about procurement rules government departments broke in the decision to buy F-35 stealth fighter jets and likely were 'complicit' in the shortcuts and failings, says a prominent military expert who the New Democrats want to call as a witness at a Commons inquiry into the F-35 controversy that began Thursday.

Harper, MacKay must have known $25-billion costs of F-35 fighter jets, and procurement rules, it’s ‘inconceivable,’ says expert
 

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CIO of CYA
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3,857 Posts
PARLIAMENT HILL—Nearly two-thirds of Canadians who are aware of the government’s $25-billion plan to replace Canada’s fighter jets with the more sophisticated state-of-the-art F-35 stealth fighter jets don’t trust Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his government to do what’s best for Canada with respect to the project, a new Forum Research poll suggests.

The Forum Research poll conducted this week also found that—after a month of government denials that it withheld at least $10-billion worth of costs when the National Defence Department presented estimates to Parliament last year—two-thirds of Canadians said they believe the government did mislead Parliament.

Two-thirds of Canadians don’t trust feds on F-35s
 

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Premium Member
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Reading the announcement this morning that Westjet will be buying a bunch of Bombardier Q400s, I had the thought that perhaps we should sell the air force to Westjet, or at least have them manage it. How many turbo props (built in Canada even!) could we get for $15-25B? Just equip the passengers with binoculars? ;)
 

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CIO of CYA
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3,857 Posts
Parliamentary Budget Officer Kevin Page said Thursday that he believes the government withheld key information about the full costs of the F-35 stealth fighter last year in an effort to present a lower price tag to Canadians.

The comment was made to reporters after Page told parliamentarians that the Defence Department did not provide him with important estimates associated with operating the F-35 despite being ordered to do so by a House of Commons committee.

Fire MacKay.

Government withheld key F-35 data to shield full cost from Canadians: watchdog
 

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Premium Member
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perhaps we should sell the air force to Westjet,
:clap:

and the oil industry to the Norwegians. ;)
 

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Perpetually Caffeinated.
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179 Posts
And the population of Canada was ~14,000,000 in 1951.

And in 1951 a CL-13 Sabre (aka F-86 Saber) fighter jet costed ~$220,000. And what do you know, they were made in Canada.

Canadair Sabre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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On that note, wasn't one of the promises with Canada signing on as an F-35 Tier II partner that Canadian jobs would be generated through the involvement of Canadian tech and aerospace firms?
 

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Premium Member
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On that note, wasn't one of the promises with Canada signing on as an F-35 Tier II partner that Canadian jobs would be generated through the involvement of Canadian tech and aerospace firms?
as much as the Harper government wants to frame it this way, there is no "promise" or guarantee that canadian companies will get those contracts. they have to bid on them like every other company in a country that initially signed on to the Memorandum of Understanding of the JSF Program.

Some countries wrote in guarantees of industrial contracts for their nation (such as Israel), but Canada hasn't followed that route.
 

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Canadian By Choice
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117,189 Posts
On that note, wasn't one of the promises with Canada signing on as an F-35 Tier II partner that Canadian jobs would be generated through the involvement of Canadian tech and aerospace firms?
On a somewhat related matter re jobs and the Canadian tech movement, many of the technicians and engineers at MacDonald, Dettwiler and Associates are leaving Canada.

"Industry Minister Christian Paradis says Canada is committed to a project that would see the construction of new satellites, but the company contracted to design the Radarsat Constellation says it's losing engineers and scientists because the government isn't spending the money required to actually build them."

Fate of Canadian satellite project unclear - Politics - CBC News
 

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Avro Arrow: Tories Were Pitched Plan To Resurrect Famous Aircraft Instead Of Buying F-35s



A Canadian company is seeking to go back in time to help fly Canada's air force into the future.

Documents obtained by the Global News program “The West Block” indicate an update to the storied CF-105 Avro Arrow was put forward as an alternative to the purchase of F-35 stealth fighter jets.

And among the project's champions is one of Canada's top soldiers, retired Maj.Gen. Lewis MacKenzie.
(HuffingtonPost)

Will legendary Avro Arrow make Lazarus-like return?

The revive-the-Avro campaign is the latest bizarre twist in a military purchase that’s gone awry on the Harper government’s watch.

The Conservatives, embarrassed by the rising costs of the U.S.-designed F-35 Lightning jets that the Royal Canadian Air Force sorely wants to purchase, are currently rethinking options for a next generation fighter.

Mr. MacKenzie and a group of design, engineering and logistics experts are pressing Ottawa to consider the long-discarded CF-105 plane.
Marc Bourdeau, a former Canadian public servant spearheading the CF-105 proposal, rejects the notion this is a pipe dream.

“This is not an exercise in nostalgia. This is an exercise in defence and industrial policy for Canada.”

Mr. MacKenzie said the new CF-105 would look like its predecessor but comparisons would end there.

“We are talking about a basic design that was tested and proven .… It will be recognizable in shape but it won’t be recognizable beyond that, given new technology and materials.”
(Globe & Mail)
 

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Vorlon Ambassador
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As much as I'm saddened by the story of the Avro Arrow's destruction and would feel proud to see it rise again, I can't see bringing out a 1950's fighter design and using it, even if it was ahead of it's time, back then. There would be too much that would need updating in the design.

Canada would be better making a deal with Boeing to build Superhornets in Canada or a deal with the European NATO countries to build the Eurofighter Typhoon in Canada. I certainly can't see why we can't manufacture fighter jets in Canada.

As well, if we use one of these 2 designs, we can find and share parts. Ie. If we're doing patrols in a no-fly zone in the middle east, and need parts, they don't have to come all the way from Canada, they can be found locally.
 

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Premium Member
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6,388 Posts
I finally got around to watching the latest fifth estate episode which i PVR'd last friday. It's on the F-35, and i highly recommend anyone interested in the subject to give it a view :

Watch Full Episode - Runaway Fighter - the fifth estate
...not so fast there...prejudging the interests of fellow Ehmacians.

I watched and I came away convinced of the Harper's Strong Stable Majority Conservative Governments™ folly on this issue.

It will be truly interesting if this plane "never get off the ground" because of overruns on cost and delays in design & production. I should love to see HSSMCG™ fall all over their tongues if the F35 failed to be produced.
 

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peek-a-boo
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Premium Member
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Best news I've heard in a while from Ottawa. Can't wait to hear the thrashing and moaning from south of the border on this one. Maybe now someone can take a serious look at jets that suit our *defence* needs, per climate / territory / mission, rather than putting as top priority our ability to support U.S. imperialist wars halfway 'round the world.
 

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Er. Um. Uh-oh.... :mad:

F-35 deal not cancelled, Tories insist

The Conservative government says it has not made a decision on the F-35 as a replacement for Canada's CF-18 fighter jets, but the government now appears to concede that alternative fighter purchase options will be considered.

The Prime Minister's Office denied a media report Thursday that the F-35 purchase was dead, calling the report "inaccurate on a number of fronts" and promising to update the House of Commons on its seven-point plan to replace the jets before the House rises for the Christmas break at the end of next week.
(CBC)
 
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