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Dealing with Iran

3344 Views 52 Replies 14 Participants Last post by  Macfury, 
Vandave
Iran is becoming a real pain in the ass of the Middle East and I wondering how people think this is going to play out versus how they think it should play out.

A few examples of troubling things:

- NATO just caught Iran red handed supplying weapons to the Taliban and potenially to the Iraqi Shiites.
- The recent actions in the Gaza are probably also supported by Iran given their close ties to Hamas.
- Iran is still pushing ahead with development of nuclear weapons.

Thoughts?
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M
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J
Nuke 'em ;)
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Beej
I don't think that there is much that can be done. Iran was (note: was) quite progressive and on top of offering a good education to the people. It is different now but the populace, from what I've heard, retains a great deal of what we would call "progressiveness". Giving them a reason to vote in anger against "The West" would not be a good idea, but their current looney is dangerous.

I wish it were easy, but it ain't. Geopolitics generally lends itself to wishful thinking but a deeply challenging reality.
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Vandave
Beej said:
I don't think that there is much that can be done. Iran was (note: was) quite progressive and on top of offering a good education to the people. It is different now but the populace, from what I've heard, retains a great deal of what we would call "progressiveness". Giving them a reason to vote in anger against "The West" would not be a good idea, but their current looney is dangerous.

I wish it were easy, but it ain't. Geopolitics generally lends itself to wishful thinking but a deeply challenging reality.
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I agree. I think the Bush admin missed a huge opportunity prior to the Iraq war to support the movement for change in Iran. Unfortunately, the recent approach of the US has caused the extremist element to take a greater hold in Iran and slow change and progress.

It seems too late to go down that road.
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Vandave said:
I agree. I think the Bush admin missed a huge opportunity prior to the Iraq war to support the movement for change in Iran. Unfortunately, the recent approach of the US has caused the extremist element to take a greater hold in Iran and slow change and progress.

It seems too late to go down that road.
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you reap what you sow or as the CIA puts it; "blowback"
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Vandave
MasterBlaster said:
Links?
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For the 1st point:
The Blotter

It shouldn't be too hard for you to find info on the links between Iran and Hamas, and Iran's nuclear program.
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Vandave
MACSPECTRUM said:
you reap what you sow or as the CIA puts it; "blowback"
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True enough, but we also need to move forward and we can't change the past.
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Greenlion
Vandave said:
Iran is becoming a real pain in the ass of the Middle East and I wondering how people think this is going to play out versus how they think it should play out.

A few examples of troubling things:

- NATO just caught Iran red handed supplying weapons to the Taliban and potenially to the Iraqi Shiites.
- The recent actions in the Gaza are probably also supported by Iran given their close ties to Hamas.
- Iran is still pushing ahead with development of nuclear weapons.

Thoughts?
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Your first "point" is from an unidentified source and under closer scrutiny turns out to have little substance and reeks of Cheney's hand in an effort, once again, to lie and imply a way to a US military strike. There was no evidence that the Iranian govt. was involved in funneling wepons to the Taliban...in fact this notion is pretty much nonsensical as the Iranian regime has long been a staunch opponent of the Taliban, and in fact have offered intelligence in years past 2002 and the early days of NATO's move into Afghanistan, to the West.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/061307J.shtml

As for militias in Iraq there no doubt is all kinds of weapons coming into Iraq from Iran there so what? There are all kinds of ties between Iranian and Iraqi Shiite groups. Is this a surprize when the countries on either side of Iran have several hundred thousand US troops bombing, infiltrating, etc. etc.

What recent actions in Gaza? Israel and the US are providing Fatah with weapons, as Abbas is their current choice for warden. Fatah and Hamas had agreed to a compromise govt. based on elections already held and this was rejected outright by US/Israel. The govt. has had practically all funds and aid cut off by the West. Things are desperate and a battle for control is a logical outcome. Of course once again the outcome will be the opposite of what the US claims to want, i.e. a Hamas victory would appear likely.

Iran continues to pursue a nuclear program. Is a weapon part of this? It was likely before and is certain now. If I were in the Iranian govt. I'd be doing the same thing. How else to try and prevent Pentagon backed regime change? Who forced Tehran into this corner?

Iran may be a "pain in the ass in the Middle East" but at least the last time I checked its geographic location was also in the Middle East.
Washington is considerably further west, and although it assumes it has the right to speak and act as ruler of the world, not everyone shares this assumption.
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CubaMark
Bravo!
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zoziw
I don't think that there is much that can be done.
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I agree.
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M
Vandave said:
True enough, but we also need to move forward and we can't change the past.
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"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it"
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M
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martman
Vandave said:
Iran is becoming a real pain in the ass of the Middle East and I wondering how people think this is going to play out versus how they think it should play out.

A few examples of troubling things:

- NATO just caught Iran red handed supplying weapons to the Taliban and potenially to the Iraqi Shiites.
- The recent actions in the Gaza are probably also supported by Iran given their close ties to Hamas.
- Iran is still pushing ahead with development of nuclear weapons.

Thoughts?
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Yes, as pointed out and as usual, you have provided ZERO backing to your claims.


Hersh: CIA Analysis Finds Iran Not Developing Nuclear Weapons
Agence France-Presse

Sunday 19 November 2006

Washington - A classified draft CIA assessment has found no firm evidence of a secret drive by Iran to develop nuclear weapons, as alleged by the White House, a top US investigative reporter has said.

Seymour Hersh, writing in an article for the November 27 issue of the magazine The New Yorker released in advance, reported on whether the administration of Republican President George W. Bush was more, or less, inclined to attack Iran after Democrats won control of Congress last week.

A month before the November 7 legislative elections, Hersh wrote, Vice President Dick Cheney attended a national-security discussion that touched on the impact of Democratic victory in both chambers on Iran policy.

"If the Democrats won on November 7th, the vice president said, that victory would not stop the administration from pursuing a military option with Iran," Hersh wrote, citing a source familiar with the discussion.

Cheney said the White House would circumvent any legislative restrictions "and thus stop Congress from getting in its way," he said.

The Democratic victory unleashed a surge of calls for the Bush administration to begin direct talks with Iran.

But the administration's planning of a military option was made "far more complicated" in recent months by a highly classified draft assessment by the Central Intelligence Agency "challenging the White House's assumptions about how close Iran might be to building a nuclear bomb," he wrote.

"The CIA found no conclusive evidence, as yet, of a secret Iranian nuclear-weapons program running parallel to the civilian operations that Iran has declared to the International Atomic Energy Agency," Hersh wrote, adding the CIA had declined to comment on that story.
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No evidence Iran supplying Taliban-NATO general
05 Jun 2007 12:27:56 GMT
Source: Reuters


By Jim Loney

KABUL, June 5 (Reuters) - While Iranian mortar rounds and other weapons have been found on Afghan battlefields there is no evidence that Tehran is supplying weapons to the Taliban, the U.S. general who leads the NATO war effort in the country said on Tuesday.
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As for Iran in Gaza I couldn't even find and accusation of this.


For the future, Cheney is a liar. Just because he says it doesn't make it so. In fact if he said it it probably isn't true.
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Vandave
martman said:
Yes, as pointed out and as usual, you have provided ZERO backing to your claims.
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Read the story from ABC that I posted. Or you can read these ones:

CANOE -- CNEWS - Canada: NATO intercepts weapons shipments to Taliban

washingtonpost.com

martman said:
As for Iran in Gaza I couldn't even find and accusation of this.
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Nobody said Iran was in Gaza. :confused:
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martman
Vandave said:
Nobody said Iran was in Gaza. :confused:
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Vandave said:
I
- The recent actions in the Gaza are probably also supported by Iran given their close ties to Hamas.
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As usual you will do your best to sow false confusion rather than answer. You know what I meant but you insist on arguing by nit picking style rather than with facts. Could it be you are afraid of facts?

As for your article link. I don't trust the state department to tell the truth on this issue. Let's see how this plays out over time as the US seems to make a lot of baseless accusations of late, starting with but now where near limited to:WMDs in Iraq and uranium in Niger. (Bet you fell for those! :lmao: ) If the US has real evidence they will present it. More likely they are lying yet again.
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Vandave
martman said:
As usual you will do your best to sow false confusion rather than answer. You know what I meant but you insist on arguing by nit picking style rather than with facts. Could it be you are afraid of facts?.
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That is far from nit picking. There is a HUGE difference between Iran being in Gaza and Iran providing weapons and logistical support to Humas who are in Gaza.

There is NO debate that Iran provides funding for Humas. Iran publically supports them.

Sorry, but these are facts. You can either deal with them or not.

martman said:
As for your article link. I don't trust the state department to tell the truth on this issue. Let's see how this plays out over time as the US seems to make a lot of baseless accusations of late, starting with but now where near limited to:WMDs in Iraq and uranium in Niger.(Bet you fell for those! :lmao: ) If the US has real evidence they will present it. More likely they are lying yet again.
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I guess you think Iran is more credible. OK... well let's quote their President:

"Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury."

"Remove Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations."

"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land. As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."

"If the West does not support Israel, this regime will be toppled. As it has lost its raison d' tre, Israel will be annihilated."

"Israel is a tyrannical regime that will one day will be destroyed."

"Israel is a rotten, dried tree that will be annihilated in one storm."


You don't think 'thems is fighting words'?:rolleyes:
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martman
Vandave said:
I guess you think Iran is more credible. OK... well let's quote their President:
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You think American Generals are not credible.
From the above article you didn't read dated 2007-06-05:
While Iranian mortar rounds and other weapons have been found on Afghan battlefields there is no evidence that Tehran is supplying weapons to the Taliban, the U.S. general who leads the NATO war effort in the country said on Tuesday.
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{sarcasm} of course the general is full of BS as evidenced by the bigoted ramblings of Iran's PM.{/sarcasm}

As for Hamas and Iran there is a difference between moral support, financial support and weapons support. I have seen plenty of evidence of moral support, a some evidence of financial support, and (so far) ZERO evidence of weapons support.
Care to offer up any?


edit: added bold tags to emphasize my point
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A
VD, you are one funny fellow
CANOE -- CNEWS - Canada: NATO intercepts weapons shipments to Taliban
There's irrefutable evidence the Iranians are now doing this," said Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns on CNN.
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So your souce is the US government?

How's that hunt for the WMDs in Iraq going? Find anything... :lmao: :lmao:
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Vandave
martman said:
I have seen plenty of evidence of moral support, a some evidence of financial support, and (so far) ZERO evidence of weapons support.
Care to offer up any?
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How about the remote controlled surface to ship missile that Hezbollah used to sink an Israeli ship? How about all the rockets they used against Israel. Sure they are a different group, but they are obviously using Hamas to the same end.

I could google up all sorts of examples, but you should be more than capable of doing it yourself (hint...google 'hamas + iran')
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