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Mac Guru
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
TheStar.com | Environment | To work, carbon tax must sting

"Most Canadians tell pollsters they're concerned about climate change. Many insist they'd like to do something about it, and would even pay for measures to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

But propose actual cash amounts – 25 cents a litre on gasoline, perhaps, or a $10 daily commuter toll – and support evaporates.

"Once you put a price on it, people tend to think twice about it and say, `Maybe not,'" says Mario Canseco of Angus Reid Strategies, which surveyed about 3,700 Canadians on the issue last March."


That's pretty much bang on for many of us. Thoughts?
 

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Premium Member
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Higher gas prices wont reduce consumption. And if it does, doesn't gas prices go by supply and demand? So if demand lowers, so will prices, which will increase demand, which will raise prices. A never ending teeder todder with only consumers in the end getting screwed.

So of course we don't want to pay more, as it is taxes included in gas hardly goes towards what it supposed to. Who says adding another cost to gas will go towards it's intended purpose?
 

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R.I.P. Don - 06/21/2020
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Buying fictitious carbon credits with a carbon tax will do zero, other than destroy the economy.

Carbon credits are a figment of some people's imaginations. But, then again, some people still believe in the tooth fairy. :rolleyes:

Canadians will not stand for a carbon tax on their gas supply. And every party and politician knows it or it would have been implemented ages ago. Simple as that.
 

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Mac Guru
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Buying fictitious carbon credits with a carbon tax will do zero, other than destroy the economy.

Carbon credits are a figment of some people's imaginations. But, then again, some people still believe in the tooth fairy. :rolleyes:

Canadians will not stand for a carbon tax on their gas supply. And every party and politician knows it or it would have been implemented ages ago. Simple as that.
Agreed. :)
 

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Honourable Citizen?
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I suspect that the survey probably shows how unrealistic many of us are in our thinking about what is required for global ecological sustainability. As many people know if everyone on earth lived the way the average first-world citizen does we would need about 5 Earths worth of agricultural resources, natural resources and energy. Also, climate change would destroy us very quickly and we would run out of fossil fuels in a short amount of time under that scenario.

So clearly the status quo is not a model for the entire planet. Yet we in the first world try not to think about that very much, if at all. With our heads firmly planted in the sand and our exposed butts waving up in the air, we imagine that if the rest of world remains impoverished and using little maybe we can limp along at our current rates of use for a generation or two before just our own use comes up against Earth's limits. The underdeveloped rest of the world might have something to say about this though and it's clear that they are moving quickly to get a piece of what we have.

So what's it gonna be folks, resource wars or support for changing the way we do things and taking leadership in those directions for the world to follow? It won't be so bad for someone my age coz I'll be dead in a few decades or less, (I'm 50), but if you're younger than that or if you have kids that you care much about, you might want to really think about how long we can just carry on with the status quo.
 

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Honourable Citizen?
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Buying fictitious carbon credits with a carbon tax will do zero, other than destroy the economy.

Carbon credits are a figment of some people's imaginations. But, then again, some people still believe in the tooth fairy. :rolleyes:

Canadians will not stand for a carbon tax on their gas supply. And every party and politician knows it or it would have been implemented ages ago. Simple as that.
It looks like you're mixing up the issue of revenue neutral tax shifting via a carbon tax and carbon credits.

As for the tooth fairy and your "rolleyes" icon SINC, I would say that's more appropriate for those who think the earth can remain an endless cornucopia of resources forever. There's some truly magical thinking based on fairy tales.
 

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So what's it gonna be folks, resource wars or support for changing the way we do things and taking leadership in those directions for the world to follow? It won't be so bad for someone my age coz I'll be dead in a few decades or less, (I'm 50), but if you're younger than that or if you have kids that you care much about, you might want to really think about how long we can just carry on with the status quo.
I think I remember this speech from "The Limits to Growth" that forgotten tome from the early 1970s--boy were they ever wrong!
 

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Honourable Citizen?
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I think I remember this speech from "The Limits to Growth" that forgotten tome from the early 1970s--boy were they ever wrong!
How so? Don't know the work, so enlighten us. Not sure how your estimation of this straw man makes my concerns invalid though. Are there some extra Earths stored somewhere that I forgot to mention?
 

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The report projected exponential growth in population and compared it to finite resources and came up with a disaster that we have long since left in the dust. While it's helpful to make projections, it's often possible to create a disaster scenario based on fixing just the right variable to create it.

We might argue that the world could not sustain EXACTLY the same appetite of the Western world if all 6 billion residents behaved like us. But it doesn't mean that there could not be some sustainable level of consumption created if we all had equal access to the resources and competed for them as their prices rose. The world would be different, and we would be consuming different things and different quantities of them, but we wouldn't necessarily be in freefall either.
 

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R.I.P. Don - 06/21/2020
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It looks like you're mixing up the issue of revenue neutral tax shifting via a carbon tax and carbon credits.
I'm not mixing anything up GA, just sayin' is all.

Most Canadians won't stand for a carbon tax at the pumps and politicians and their parties know it so well, none of them dare enact it.
 

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SINC: I think the theory is that if you shifted taxes to carbon consumption then some enlightened politician would take them AWAY from somewhere else. The joke is, of course, that all other products would suddenly become grossly more expensive after absorbing the tax on energy.
 
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