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Canuck of Enlightenment
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949 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What are carbon credits? As I understand them, they are "get out of jail free" cards. That the wealthy can buy to excuse them from doing anything about their lifestyle. Now, I am not a rich man (rich with money that is), but I do what I can. In saying that we need a bette alternative fuel to use in todays cars.

I know ethonal is the future!! Do not go there!! Ethonal is made from a food source, and we do not need to be driving up fuel costs. Also it is not easly made. If I had a choose we would use Methonal. Use things that give off Methane (chicken, pig, cow, people droppings). Methane is worse than CO2 when it comes to green house gases. BTW, methane is also the main component in natural gas (so much of us only having nine years supply left).

I do not know about anyone else, but the finacial constraints of buying a new green car is somthing that is out of the cards for me right now. I am not whining, but in saving the enviroment means I have loose my shirt over it, the cost is to high. So, while the rich can buy carbon credits to excuse their abuse, I get bitch slapped by people telling me that the little guy does not do enough.

There are ways to help everyone, methonal is just one. Just a side note but using methane is cheap, renewable and abundant. Also, it may help farmers sell somthing that may just be used as waste. As long as Gore and others can abuse it, I suppose there will always be a class difference. He maybe out there clubbing the little guy over the head with his message, but he has to follow his own preaching. Not with the new currency (carbon credits, but action!) That is my 2 cents anyway.
 

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Resident Curmudgeon
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86,940 Posts
Carbon credits are merely guilt payments to poor countries by rich countries.

Those poor countries will in turn use their new found wealth to produce more power and higher living standards and more automobiles and, well . . . you get the picture by now.
 

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Banned
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Carbon credits are merely guilt payments to poor countries by rich countries.

Those poor countries will in turn use their new found wealth to produce more power and higher living standards and more automobiles and, well . . . you get the picture by now.
And if you had "can do" spirit, you'd see this as a economic change - lower your own footprint and sell some credit....
Guess the cons are afraid of a new free market...
 

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Premium Member
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6,388 Posts
To me Carbon Credits are not the answer. Transferring the carbon burden does not eliminate the GHG.

It is interesting how sustainability and GHG is becoming interchanged now.

The other issue you raise about ethanol vs. methanol does not really eliminate GHG but extends the petroleum reserve and even at that it is not really viable.

Bio-Diesel would produce the least GHG of internal combustion engines and could stand a chance of being sustainable but has other nasties such as particulate matter.

For now long distant travel a train or boat would have the smallest environmental footprint. The bicycle or by foot for short distance least polluting travel.

The answer of sustainable and renewable and not producing GHG can be answered by Hydrogen. For now the cost of energy in is not cost effective with energy out for hydrogen as a fuel for the infernal combustion engine.
 

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Premium Member
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8,903 Posts
The hydrogen still needs to be produced. The most likely "green" source is renewable electricity generation, which makes it very expensive (I've heard of recent work on bio-hydrogen...back to organic materials). Produce electricity, split water into hydrogen and oxygen (uses energy), transport, store and compress hydrogen (uses energy), use hydrogen in a fuel cell (well below 100% efficient)...why not just skip the H2? Maybe it's, overall, a good way to "store" electricity, maybe not.

Besides, with some communities complaining about giant windmills, it's pretty clear that we do not have a perfect technology yet, just various tradeoffs.
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If "the rich" can buy carbon credits by paying for someone else to install better insulation and get a more efficient furnace, would that be okay?
 

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Banned
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The hydrogen still needs to be produced. The most likely "green" source is renewable electricity generation, which makes it very expensive (I've heard of recent work on bio-hydrogen...back to organic materials). Produce electricity, split water into hydrogen and oxygen (uses energy), transport, store and compress hydrogen (uses energy), use hydrogen in a fuel cell (well below 100% efficient)...why not just skip the H2? Maybe it's, overall, a good way to "store" electricity, maybe not.
This is an interesting article in the National Pest
Continental Hydrogen Highway

Besides, with some communities complaining about giant windmills, it's pretty clear that we do not have a perfect technology yet, just various tradeoffs.
Nice summation.
 

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Premium Member
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2,670 Posts
I guess you can now offset your carbon foot print on the flights you take with Air Canada. You can choose to pay a fee that will go towards a carbon offset on your behalf. "Yes sure Air Canada, here is my bank card and pin number, please use as much as necessary to sooth my guilty conscience."

So how long before this becomes manditory? And how long before this affects other areas of our lives? "Dude, do you have a toonie, I need to use the can!"
 

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Premium Member
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6,388 Posts
I guess you can now offset your carbon foot print on the flights you take with Air Canada. You can choose to pay a fee that will go towards a carbon offset on your behalf. "Yes sure Air Canada, here is my bank card and pin number, please use as much as necessary to sooth my guilty conscience."

So how long before this becomes manditory? And how long before this affects other areas of our lives? "Dude, do you have a toonie, I need to use the can!"
Good Point! A capitalist's dream make the air a commodity. Where's Enron when needed?
 
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