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Canadian By Choice
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The following is pulled from Ben Hammersley's web log. Does this mean Apple hasn't even started thinking about a Canuck Music Store??

"The reason why the Apple iTunes Music Store isn't yet available outside the US is because Apple hasn't made arrangements to obtain the rights outside of that country (this is called "clearing the rights" in the music business).

I run the largest music licensing agency in Canada, CMRRA. On behalf of our clients from around the world, we represent the owners of the vast majority of songs used in Canada.

Yesterday afternoon I placed a call to Apple Canada to open a discussion on the licensing of Apple's online music store in Canada. Apple's Canadian office is basically a sales operation; no products are designed or produced by Apple in Canada, to the best of my knowledge.

I'm hoping to set up a meeting with Apple, probably in Cupertino, in the next two weeks. We're looking forward to doing business with Apple - among other things, our clients don't make any money saying, "no". Until we've cut a deal with Apple, it won't be possible for them to do business in Canada - that's why I'd like to negotiate that deal and have it set up as soon as possible.

We love Mac and iTunes, too! We're sure that a substantial number of Canadians are going to want to do business with Apple, and we look forward to our discussions with them.

All Apple has to do is call me back to set up the meeting.

David A. Basskin
President
Canadian Musical Reproduction Rights Agency Ltd.
Toronto, Canada"
 

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I would educate a guess that indeed, nothing specific has been negotiated yet.

Howeer, something like adding the Canadian variant of the iTunes store might not take too long. If an amicable deal can be reached quickly, it would just be a matter of configuring the store and adding Canadian Content.

We have to be patient...

darnit.



:cool:
 

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Canadian By Choice
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Dunno about having to add Canadian content. There are 28 Tragically Hip songs in the Music Store right now, 97 from the Barenaked Ladies, Diana Krall, Robbie Williams (UK), etc. Just need to get the licensing agreements in place.

I think the library will expand at a fairly good rate as the currently signed labels upload more content (since they are seeing actual returns) and new labels/artists rush to join the bandwagon (sic).
 

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Canadian By Choice
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This is a somewhat related question. Would the Canadian Music Store need to be bilingual if it was actually "housed" within the borders of Canada? Or, if it was in the US, would it have to be in both official languages if it were made available to Canadians?
 

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Dr. G,

I would think that, once the legal rights on the CMRRA (and possibly CRTC?) are dealt with, all Apple would need to do is alter the authorization scheme for credit cards, doubtless an easy thing to do.

As for the multilingual aspect, I don't think they'd be legally obligated to do so, but there's little doubt that they <u>would</u> do so... I mean, they have to sell to France, Belgium, Morocco, etc., right? (That little "freedom fries" thing notwithstanding).

M.
 

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From: Steve Jobs <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:18:42 -0700
To: (Someone I know wrote to Steve)
Subject: Re: iTunes Music Store... For Canada?

Rick,

Sorry, the limitations is the music companies. We're working the issue
hard.

Thanks
Steve
The name of the sender has been changed, but you can see that Steve is working hard on the issue...

Cheers,

RtC
 

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Dunno about having to add Canadian content. There are 28 Tragically Hip songs in the Music Store right now, 97 from the Barenaked Ladies, Diana Krall, Robbie Williams (UK), etc. Just need to get the licensing agreements in place.

I think the library will expand at a fairly good rate as the currently signed labels upload more content (since they are seeing actual returns) and new labels/artists rush to join the bandwagon (sic).
The hold up is not the nationality of the talent but who owns the rights to the songs up here vs. the US.

Much of the Universal catalog from the US, for e.g., is owned by EMI up here. New company, new negotiation/contract.

What I'm hoping is that the success of the store (provided that the initialy momentum is maintained) will convince the greedier artists to abandon their reqests for "LP-exceptions" in the Music Store.

You can't, for e.g. buy a "single" version of American Pie (even if you wanted to, but I digress ;) ), you must buy the whole LP, same goes for Hotel California. There's certainly been lots of press about greedy labels lately but I think we'll get a pretty good idea of which artists also fall into this category by watching for stuff like this. (Yes I know that not all music is owned by the artists, the two e.gs I chose are valid for this argument though).
 

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I'm not a lawer or in the music business...so I probably don't get it... :D

...but, what rights does David Basskin and the CMRRA have to music already licensed for internet delivery? Did Amazon.com have to obtain rights from the CMRRA to sell and ship CDs to Canadians through their US store?

How is this different? Apple sells music online to individuals for personal use. Same as Amazon. I see no difference.

Sounds like greed to me...

I also don't appreciate the patronizing tone either: "We love Mac and iTunes Too!"
 

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Legally, the companies Apple has made a deal with (and are represented in the US by the RIAA) don't own the rights to any songs, Canadian content or otherwise in any other nation. Thus for them to sell music via d/l to a non-US address is essentially copyright infringement.

In other words, if Apple and/or the labels sold music to Canadians or Britons or Somalis for that matter they would be legally engaged in what the RIAA likes to refer to as "piracy".

Now, it's actually a lot more complicated than that (but it's close enough for a quick understanding of how it works). There are systems in place to insure the money goes to the right person no matter who owns the rights and which country it's sold in. Apple must deal with those systems to sell music outside the US, or it's breaking the law, probably in both countries.

As a totally arbitrary example, let's just say Madonna sold the rights to a given album to 10 different record companies in 10 different countries. Yes, this can happen. So, for the US company to get money for a song it has no rights to in Canada is breaking the law. Instead of Madonna, you could substitute Celine Dion in the same situation; the fact she is a Canadian artist doesn't change any rights issues.

Getting the RIAA members to sign was a major coup (which is one reason why they started there first) and it makes it much easier to negoitiate in a different nation, but nonetheless the deals have to be made on a nation-by-nation basis.

Somebody owns the rights to Madonna's music in Canada, and somebody owns the rights to Celine Dion's music in Canada. Whomever that is, they and they alone decide whether to accept an offer from Apple to distribute music from an online music store to Canadian residents.

The deal Apple made is big news in the music industry precisely because they were able to pull it off, with so many different parties. Apple must go through the same process in each nation it plans to sell music in.

[ May 05, 2003, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: gordguide ]
 

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Is it just my connection (from work, home system is still offline) but I stopped getting the "Canadian Site Soon" message when logging in. Since I'm on the Adobe internal network, it might just be unable to tell initially I am in Canada, but I can't be certain...

:cool:
 

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in the music section it says that you can burn as many music cd's as I want. Are these MP3 music cd's or regular 15 song music cd's? another question, is it possible to rip an AAC song to an MP3?
 

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Strongblade,

I've never seen the disclaimer at work (in fact, when I first saw it at home, I thought it was something Apple had just added). Since most methods of determining which country an IP address is from is based off of who owns the IP (rather than the actual physical location of the IP), if you work for an American company, chances are iTunes will think you're accessing the music store from the United States.
 

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" ... In the music section it says that you can burn as many music cd's as I want. Are these MP3 music cd's or regular 15 song music cd's? another question, is it possible to rip an AAC song to an MP3? ..."

AAC and mp3 are two different file formats. Although similar (ie the object was to reduce file size) they aren't the same.

So, a CD of AAC files would be similar in size to a collection of mp3 files; in other words definitely more than 15 songs per CD.

DVD players recognise the AAC codec (it's part of MPEG4) but most CD players do not. Just as a CD player needs special support for mp3 (ie not all CD players will play the file) they will need support for AAC to play back a disk of AAC files.

Converting an AAC file to mp3 isn't difficult, though; any application that supports QuickTime (ie pretty much every Mac application that uses audio or video) could do it (or be easily upgraded to do it). For now, you can use iTunes4.
 

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Canadian By Choice
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Walt Mossberg of the Wall Street Journal made an interesting comment about the price for downloaded songs from Apple's Music Store. He comented that
"... 99 cents is very reasonable when compared with what
people paid for 45-rpm singles in the heyday of that format.
When adjusted for inflation, the 79-cent price of a 45-rpm
record in 1960 amounts to about $4.50 in today's dollars. So
each song on the two-sided record cost about $2.25 in current
dollars -- much more than 99 cents."
 

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Dr G, you might want to bookmark this site for inflation calculations (USA, although an Italian site is linked as well).

1960's 79c translates to $4.51 (2000); going the other way a 99c song in 2000 (no 2003 available) would be 17c in 1960.
 

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gordguide, a most unique site. I went back to try and see what my college tuition might be like today if it was the same price. I have to admit that students pay a bit more today in tuition. My first semester in university cost me $75 a semester, which is apx. $421 in today's dollars. Of course, that was in 1966, and that was a US dollar, so maybe it is not so different.
 

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Strongblade,

I've never seen the disclaimer at work (in fact, when I first saw it at home, I thought it was something Apple had just added). Since most methods of determining which country an IP address is from is based off of who owns the IP (rather than the actual physical location of the IP), if you work for an American company, chances are iTunes will think you're accessing the music store from the United States.
Quite probably. Now if only I could convince them my Credit Card was based in the States as well...


:cool:
 
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