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I can't speak for anyone, but it's almost tiring to read about and of complaints, fruitless attempts, and other whiny threads and posts regarding getting the iPhone to work in Canada. The iPhone isn't running away.. it's coming with official support soon enough.. wait it out? It's still going to be 'cool' when it comes to Canada, even if it's a year away. I'm still surprised (yet I shouldn't be) that some Canadians actually visited the U.S. to buy an iPhone, then were surprised that it didn't function north of the border, like there was this glimmer of hope that Apple and AT&T were lying about Canadian support for the iPhone.


The device will still be cool in a year.. it's not running away..
 

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I was keen on getting an iPhone, but after hearing about all the problems with it (eg. crashes, ipod/safari stability, no copy & paste, cumbersome email deletion, lack of sms, chipping chrome, recessed headphone jack, and expensive phone bills) I'm not so eager to get one. I also read about it taking something like 14 button pushes to make a simple phone call, Apple might have made your mobile phone a little more cumbersome to use.

Here's to iPhone 2.0 and $299. :)
 

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Well here's the other perspective, Lars:

I was one of those who ran to Buffalo to get one, and I couldn't be happier. I can run my business with a little device that slips into my pocket and I'm not tethered to a desktop or lugging around a laptop.

The skype solution is close at hand:

http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/08/13/skype.comes.to.iphone/

...but it doesn't really make a difference to me because I didn't buy it for the phone, but for everything else.

The other day when I had to drive out to Mississauga, the Google Maps driving directions were so cool and such a relief that on that basis alone, the thing is worth the money to me. The fact that I am also using it in the car as an ipod is just gravy.

Yes, I couldn't wait, because it instantly made my life and business a lot easier.
 

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I can't speak for anyone, but it's almost tiring to read about and of complaints, fruitless attempts, and other whiny threads and posts regarding getting the iPhone to work in Canada. The iPhone isn't running away.. it's coming with official support soon enough.. wait it out? It's still going to be 'cool' when it comes to Canada, even if it's a year away. I'm still surprised (yet I shouldn't be) that some Canadians actually visited the U.S. to buy an iPhone, then were surprised that it didn't function north of the border, like there was this glimmer of hope that Apple and AT&T were lying about Canadian support for the iPhone.


The device will still be cool in a year.. it's not running away..
I am beginning to think that we may never see the devices up here, or their arrival may take much more than a few months or a year. For those of us who are old enough to remember, Palm brought out the Palm vii which was one of the first PDA devices to offer any form of wireless communication. It never made it to Canada.

Rogers is not AT&T. They don't have any level of competition here in Canada. Or maybe they don't feel like they do. If they did, they would treat their customers with a much greater level of respect than they currently offer. As I've said in numerous posts, Bell is no better.

I am not privy to a lot of 'inside' information, but what I have heard through the rumour mill is that the lack of a iPhone legally for sale in Canada is due to Rogers. My guess would be their reluctance to agree to a unlimited data plan rate similar to the one that Apple requested from AT&T.

I have been 'aware' of Rogers as a company since the early 70's as a teen growing up in Etobicoke. I can't recall ever hearing anyone say that they have had a positive experience from Rogers in that 35 year period. If you ask me, it is pretty sad that a company would allow their public perception to be that poor.

So until we see an official announcement from Rogers, I am not holding my breath that they will carry the phone in Canada.
 

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The world's largest online cell phone forum is based in Toronto.

In its Rogers' subforum, there is a tidy thread that began June 5th there, with (atm) 782 posts and 44,258 views. If there is a prediction, conspiracy theory, an opinion on phones or about Macs that doesn't appear in that thread, well... Some stopped posting there when Rogers' employees stopped, since that seems to me to be a pretty good sign that the iPhone will be released here soon, NDAs and all.

HowardForums: Your Mobile Phone Community & Resource - When is the iPhone coming to Rogers?

What is this "overzealous" of which you speak?

.
 

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The other day when I had to drive out to Mississauga, the Google Maps driving directions were so cool and such a relief that on that basis alone, the thing is worth the money to me. The fact that I am also using it in the car as an ipod is just gravy.

Yes, I couldn't wait, because it instantly made my life and business a lot easier.
There are really two very interesting observations from this statement...

I did a driving trip down to the Niagara region on Saturday, but in my case I used my Nokia E90, which of course does get cellular reception, and also has a GPS built-in. It happily gave me audible turn-by-turn driving directions throughout the entire trip, navigating me directly to where I wanted to go. In addition, when I wanted to stop for coffee and find a nearby Tim Horton's while en-route, I was able to not only search for one (using "find near my position"), but was able to get talked right in to the location by hitting one or two additional buttons with the search result, even in the midst of busy QEW traffic.

So my first point is that from a features perspective, there's very little the iPhone does that's revolutionary. I've been saying this for a while, but it's never been about what the iPhone does, but rather how it does it. The interface is brilliant, and it's definitely the slickest unit I've ever used, but I'm continuously bumping up against what it can't do (as a long-time smartphone/PDA user), and some of those omissions are just downright strange at this point.

The second point, however, is that where the iPhone has revolutionized things is in its ability to expose the "common man" to the world of more sophisticated phone features. Again, I can think of any number of phones from five years ago that can do most of what the iPhone can do, but the reality is that there are many people out there (like imachungry) who may never have otherwise been exposed to this.

In short, when I see people getting excited about the fact that the iPhone can give them driving directions while in the car, or let them surf the web when running around downtown Toronto, I tend to yawn and sort of ask myself how that's new in any meaningful way... :) On the other hand, the very fact that there are people out there who are discovering the ability to do these sorts of things for the first time because of the iPhone is definitely interesting, and probably says a lot about the iPhone's design and target market.

I am not privy to a lot of 'inside' information, but what I have heard through the rumour mill is that the lack of a iPhone legally for sale in Canada is due to Rogers. My guess would be their reluctance to agree to a unlimited data plan rate similar to the one that Apple requested from AT&T.
Well, from what I heard (taken with the appropriate grain of salt), Rogers did want to be on the initial-release bandwagon so they could benefit from the hype being generated in the U.S. Apple stonewalled Rogers in this case, since they wanted to focus on the U.S. release and had not interest in dealing with Canada until later. Several announcements and press releases from Rogers seem to support this, and it wouldn't surprise me if Rogers was being petulant around April when they backpedalled and suddenly announced that there was no information on the iPhone coming to Canada.

The reality is that even just talking to the folks at the local Apple Stores in Toronto, the number of calls they received inquiring about the iPhone seemed an indication as to why Rogers would have wanted to be in on this initial release... The unit would have sold like hotcakes, and Rogers probably would have ended up with a whole slew of new activations, before the novelty wore off.

The iPhone coming to Canada even tomorrow is going to be far less of a novelty than it would have been if it had arrived on June 29th.

As for the data rates, I really don't see this is as much of an issue as people seem to think. Yes, Rogers data rates are horribly high, but AT&T's weren't much better (by U.S. standards, that is). I remember talking to most of my colleagues at MWSF when the iPhone was announced, and many of them were looking to get the iPhone activated on T-Mobile so as not to get raped by Cingular/AT&T's much higher data rates.

Despite this, to everybody's surprise, AT&T released an unlimited plan, which nobody expected. The reason they could do this was actually very simple... The iPhone can't actually consume much data... The limitations on the device pretty much guarantee this.... You can't tether it to a laptop, you can't download large files, you can't even attach more than one picture at a time to an e-mail message, and you can't add third-party apps that might allow for these types of things. Further, the iPhone jumps onto the nearest WiFi point automatically at the slightest hint of service, so if you have a WiFi network at home, school or work, you'd pretty much have to force it to use the EDGE network (and most would likely never bother to do this).

The bottom line is that there's a very finite and predictable amount of usage that is going to come out of an iPhone. With it's current feature set, the basic 25MB plan that Rogers laughably used to bill as "unlimited" would probably be more than sufficient for an iPhone. Rogers could release an "unlimited iPhone plan" (which is exactly what AT&T did -- released an iPhone-specific plan), and rest easy knowing that the average iPhone user will probably never use more than 10MB of bandwidth a month, and even a user who was actually trying would be unlikely to use anything more than the 25MB they used to allocate to the high-end data plans. This is likely the only reason that an "unlimited" plan was ever palatable even to AT&T.
 

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From what I've read, iPhone users use more like 200MB and not 25MB per month. That's a far cry from what is available via "unlimited."

As a comparison, I have a $5/10MB Vision Data plan with Rogers. If I accidentally surf or download to about 25MB in one month, the overage will cost about $750.

If the iPhone isn't released in Canada with an unlimited data plan, most people will have to treat it as a brick, or re-mortgage their existing bricks.



There are really two very interesting observations from this statement...

I did a driving trip down to the Niagara region on Saturday, but in my case I used my Nokia E90, which of course does get cellular reception, and also has a GPS built-in. It happily gave me audible turn-by-turn driving directions throughout the entire trip, navigating me directly to where I wanted to go. In addition, when I wanted to stop for coffee and find a nearby Tim Horton's while en-route, I was able to not only search for one (using "find near my position"), but was able to get talked right in to the location by hitting one or two additional buttons with the search result, even in the midst of busy QEW traffic.

So my first point is that from a features perspective, there's very little the iPhone does that's revolutionary. I've been saying this for a while, but it's never been about what the iPhone does, but rather how it does it. The interface is brilliant, and it's definitely the slickest unit I've ever used, but I'm continuously bumping up against what it can't do (as a long-time smartphone/PDA user), and some of those omissions are just downright strange at this point.

The second point, however, is that where the iPhone has revolutionized things is in its ability to expose the "common man" to the world of more sophisticated phone features. Again, I can think of any number of phones from five years ago that can do most of what the iPhone can do, but the reality is that there are many people out there (like imachungry) who may never have otherwise been exposed to this.

In short, when I see people getting excited about the fact that the iPhone can give them driving directions while in the car, or let them surf the web when running around downtown Toronto, I tend to yawn and sort of ask myself how that's new in any meaningful way... :) On the other hand, the very fact that there are people out there who are discovering the ability to do these sorts of things for the first time because of the iPhone is definitely interesting, and probably says a lot about the iPhone's design and target market.


Well, from what I heard (taken with the appropriate grain of salt), Rogers did want to be on the initial-release bandwagon so they could benefit from the hype being generated in the U.S. Apple stonewalled Rogers in this case, since they wanted to focus on the U.S. release and had not interest in dealing with Canada until later. Several announcements and press releases from Rogers seem to support this, and it wouldn't surprise me if Rogers was being petulant around April when they backpedalled and suddenly announced that there was no information on the iPhone coming to Canada.

The reality is that even just talking to the folks at the local Apple Stores in Toronto, the number of calls they received inquiring about the iPhone seemed an indication as to why Rogers would have wanted to be in on this initial release... The unit would have sold like hotcakes, and Rogers probably would have ended up with a whole slew of new activations, before the novelty wore off.

The iPhone coming to Canada even tomorrow is going to be far less of a novelty than it would have been if it had arrived on June 29th.

As for the data rates, I really don't see this is as much of an issue as people seem to think. Yes, Rogers data rates are horribly high, but AT&T's weren't much better (by U.S. standards, that is). I remember talking to most of my colleagues at MWSF when the iPhone was announced, and many of them were looking to get the iPhone activated on T-Mobile so as not to get raped by Cingular/AT&T's much higher data rates.

Despite this, to everybody's surprise, AT&T released an unlimited plan, which nobody expected. The reason they could do this was actually very simple... The iPhone can't actually consume much data... The limitations on the device pretty much guarantee this.... You can't tether it to a laptop, you can't download large files, you can't even attach more than one picture at a time to an e-mail message, and you can't add third-party apps that might allow for these types of things. Further, the iPhone jumps onto the nearest WiFi point automatically at the slightest hint of service, so if you have a WiFi network at home, school or work, you'd pretty much have to force it to use the EDGE network (and most would likely never bother to do this).

The bottom line is that there's a very finite and predictable amount of usage that is going to come out of an iPhone. With it's current feature set, the basic 25MB plan that Rogers laughably used to bill as "unlimited" would probably be more than sufficient for an iPhone. Rogers could release an "unlimited iPhone plan" (which is exactly what AT&T did -- released an iPhone-specific plan), and rest easy knowing that the average iPhone user will probably never use more than 10MB of bandwidth a month, and even a user who was actually trying would be unlikely to use anything more than the 25MB they used to allocate to the high-end data plans. This is likely the only reason that an "unlimited" plan was ever palatable even to AT&T.
 

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From what I've read, iPhone users use more like 200MB and not 25MB per month. That's a far cry from what is available via "unlimited."
I find that actually pretty hard to believe, considering that all you can really do on the device is surf the web and check your e-mail. Attachments don't even download unless they're supported by the device (so unless you're regularly viewing multi-megabyte Word or PDF files from your mail client, that's not going to be much data).

Die-hard users who are playing with a lot of these Web 2.0 apps (ie, things like JiveTalk) are probably using considerably more data, but for the average user, it's hard to believe that any amount of web surfing is going to equate to 200MB. It depends on where you're surfing, of course, but since the iPhone doesn't support much rich web content, even the flashier sites won't consume much traffic when viewed on the iPhone.

The only thing that might skew those results a bit are YouTube, since that would be a higher-traffic activity. However, some of the problems people have had getting YouTube working on hacktivated iPhones seem to indicate there may be some internal network magic going on in that regard (like AT&T proxies YouTube content, perhaps).

I've analyzed some of my own usage on the iPhone (and my E90 for a comparison), and I've fallen far short of my own normal 200MB plan. I used 85MB last month on my E90, for instance, but that also included downloading several large files, such as installing software OTA and downloading PDF manuals to read, as well as some time spent tethered to my MacBook.

During my last business trip to New York, which lasted about three days and involved heavy iPhone use over EDGE (largely because I could :) ), my usage counters ran up to around 2MB.

If the iPhone isn't released in Canada with an unlimited data plan, most people will have to treat it as a brick, or re-mortgage their existing bricks.
It will definitely have to be a truly unlimited data plan, as I'm sure Apple isn't going to let Rogers get away with their old game of calling 25MB or 200MB "unlimited" and that might very well be one of the sticking points.

However, as I mentioned above, AT&T had no unlimited plans prior to the advent of the iPhone either, and they still don't for any other device that they sell. AT&T's data rates are also among the highest of any U.S. carrier.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the limited feature set and omission of things like Flash were a concession to the carriers to allow for an unlimited plan while keeping the bandwidth consumption low.
 

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So my first point is that from a features perspective, there's very little the iPhone does that's revolutionary. I've been saying this for a while, but it's never been about what the iPhone does, but rather how it does it. The interface is brilliant, and it's definitely the slickest unit I've ever used, but I'm continuously bumping up against what it can't do (as a long-time smartphone/PDA user), and some of those omissions are just downright strange at this point.

The second point, however, is that where the iPhone has revolutionized things is in its ability to expose the "common man" to the world of more sophisticated phone features. Again, I can think of any number of phones from five years ago that can do most of what the iPhone can do, but the reality is that there are many people out there (like imachungry) who may never have otherwise been exposed to this.
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The browser on the iphone is not at all similar on any other device. Yawn at the Google Maps, but show me a phone that does the web with so much grace and elegance.

I get tired of these kinds of debates anyway. If it works for you, great. If you prefer the n95 or whatever, also great.

I am an aesthetic person, and for me, the iphone is supremely aesthetic, and there isn't a phone out there that comes close. How do you explain to a person who doesn't care about aesthetics why it's important to you?

That said, if many of its limitations aren't addressed in the update, who knows after that?
 

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Actually, the Nokia browser is based on Safari (webkit) as well, and renders pages every bit as well. The only difference is it's not touchscreen, which is mostly a bonus for the iPhone's implementation, although a touchscreen has its frustrating moments as well.

Contrary to a lot of the discussions out there, I'm not in any way slamming the iPhone... I think it's a great device, but at this point there are too many limitations for it to meet my needs as a primary phone. It's a total love/hate relationship at this point. :)

The positive observation I'm trying to make, however, is that the iPhone is revolutionary in that it's exposing people who may never have used a smartphone or PDA to a whole new world. In many ways the iPhone is doing the same for mobile Internet communications as the iPod did for digital music. Prior to the advent of the iPod, most non-computer users considered the idea of a digital music player to be a cumbersome geek toy. Now even my mother has an iPod, and she can barely program her VCR or microwave.... She was also able to pick up the iPhone and figure out how to use it within a few minutes... Ditto for my very non-techncal wife.... My other smartphones have always terrified them by comparison.... :)
 

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The positive observation I'm trying to make, however, is that the iPhone is revolutionary in that it's exposing people who may never have used a smartphone or PDA to a whole new world. In many ways the iPhone is doing the same for mobile Internet communications as the iPod did for digital music. Prior to the advent of the iPod, most non-computer users considered the idea of a digital music player to be a cumbersome geek toy. Now even my mother has an iPod, and she can barely program her VCR or microwave.... She was also able to pick up the iPhone and figure out how to use it within a few minutes... Ditto for my very non-techncal wife.... My other smartphones have always terrified them by comparison.... :)
Yea, I agree. Twenty times a day I have non-geek people look at the iphone and be totally entranced by its simplicity and ease of use. I think this is precisely why technically inclined people (GEEKS!) find the iphone overhyped. My brother constantly sneers at the iphone hype, as he's not an aesthetic person. We'll never agree on it. :)
 

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Exactly, and in my case I'm really somewhere in between... I gave up being a gadget freak around the time that I got into the whole Mac/iTunes/iPod ecosystem, realizing that I prefer something that "Just works" to something that I have to tinker with. With iTunes and the iPod, for instance, I quickly realized that I was spending more time managing my music, than I was listening to it.

I ditched a Palm PDA for a Blackberry around the same time for that very reason (aesthetics aside, the BB is a device that "Just works" as an e-mail/organizer device).

The fact is that what the iPhone does do, it does extremely well. For it to begin to meet my needs, it wouldn't need to put in every possible bell and whistle that every other smartphone has (any more than the iPod needs to do this), but it would need to address a number of small issues that are currently serious limitations... It's only the little things that it's missing, but those little things are rather odd omissions.... No task support in the calendar, no voice dial, no cut/copy/paste, no vCard/vCal support.... These are the things that presently make it fall far short of being a business-capable device, and the thing that makes the device so frustrating for somebody who is used to being able to do more than the iPhone offers. Every time I bump up against some little thing I can't do (like add an address to my contact list from an e-mail I've received), it's extremely frustrating, and I end up asking myself if I'm the one who is missing something.... :)

Fortunately, these are also all things that can be easily added with firmware updates...
 

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Rogers will be the carrier, Only Rogers and Fido are GSM providers, and Fido is owned by Rogers. I don't think Rogers could allow such a product to be locked to the Fido network (why Rogers locks out rogers phones from Fido and vice versa is beyond me).

The reason we don't have a iPhone is because of Rogers, we by far have the worst telecommunications and data plans in the world, our phones are stripped down and locked (not that that is important to the iPhone). Our plans are so expensive that once you add the iPhone into it, no one will consider that. I have some experience with european and middle eastern carriers, and locking the phones and expensive plans are not acceptable there. It's surprising that it's acceptable here.
 
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