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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, am i the only one ticked off that the city of toronto is even spending time debating whether or not to let city vehicles have 'support our troops' decals????

call me nuts, but there are more important issues to discuss.

i don't want to re-invent the other post regarding the war in Afghanistan.

B/c, as a CANADIAN, i believe we should be proud of and show support for our troops. it's not their fault the mission is on. they don't make those calls. these are our fellow brothers, sisters, aunt and uncles fighting over there.

in past conflicts, canadians supported our troops without question.

this also ticks me off b/c toronto should still be thanking the army for getting them out of that ice/snow storm a few years back.

CTV Toronto - City votes to keep 'Support Our Troops' decals - CTV News, Shows and Sports -- Canadian Television

Again, this isn't meant to be a political rehash of the previous afghan discussion....just a rant about how dumb politicians can be and how much public money they can waste debating useless ideas....

Cheers,
keebler
 

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Difficult debate to be sure…
Supporting our troops does not automatically mean that we support the adventure in Afghanistan.
Now the bigger point then, is should public vehicles and property be a springboard for messages. The problem that I see is that the ribbon campaign is political no matter how much you try to dissociate it. I have no qualms about the same sticker on your car if you place it there but when it comes to public property, would it not make more sense to just stay neutral? Not only for the yellow ribbons but the pink ones, the rainbow ones – I mean all of them….
This weekend, I went to the mall. On the way in there was a “toll” manned by police – they were raising funds for some charity or another. Of course I gave money but I felt conflicted about it. Should a police vehicle and resources be used that way?
And will removing the stickers really remove your support for the troops? Why not place the same stickers on your car (if you have not already).
The whole debate reeks of American style patriotism.
I say remove all stickers of the kind from public (tax payer) vehicles it has no place. Symbolism is powerful and this seems like a bad start to a trend that Canada does not need.
 

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... On the way in there was a “toll” manned by police – they were raising funds for some charity or another. Of course I gave money but I felt conflicted about it. Should a police vehicle and resources be used that way?
Ran through a similar one of these years back, passing through Banff. The volunteer fire department was walking around with rubber boots, collecting donations at a stop sign. I willingly donated, because I used to be on a volunteer fire department myself. Police vehicle? Hmmm, not so sure. Maybe they were donating their time. I may have a problem with the cruiser, though.

I say remove all stickers of the kind from public (tax payer) vehicles it has no place.
Agreed. Spend the taxpayers cash on something with a better ROI.
 

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While we're at it I think we should scrap the support for MADD's red ribbon campaign. Nurses shouldn't be allowed to show their support for breast cancer either, let's rip those damn pink ribbons off their uniform. Police shouldn't be allowed to wear memorial arm bands on their uniform when another dies. God forbid any of our civil servants show any patriotism to this great country, or support to any worthy cause, not on my tax dime.
 

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I listened to my good buddy Lowell Green yesterday for about an hour and every caller in a 45 minute span called to say they have cencelled their vacations planned for Toronto.

This whole situation was the most rediculous thing I have heard yet...why don't we just tell the troops to fend for themselves.

When the next heavy snowfall hits TDot, I suppose they will selectively support the troops....the mayor is an idiot!
 

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This is not a debate over the supporting of troops or supporting the war. It is a debate regarding the cities right to speak for it's citizens.

As far as I am concerned, the city should not be allowed to speak for it's people. Obviously, this isn't the case on clear-cut issues but when an issue is divisive, the city should keep out of it.

Keep your opinion pieces on your own personal property (car, bike, backpack, house, whatever) but stay away from collective property.
 

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Keep your opinion pieces on your own personal property (car, bike, backpack, house, whatever) but stay away from collective property.
We'll have to remember that if the Leafs ever make it to the Stanley Cup finals, or is hockey the only way Canadians can show their patriotism?
 

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We'll have to remember that if the Leafs ever make it to the Stanley Cup finals, or is hockey the only way Canadians can show their patriotism?
Hockey? What's that? Don't play, don't follow, don't care. Keep it off the bus too. Besides, hockey crap on the bus is payed advertising that supports the system. Raises questions as to who gets to approve what goes up but this debate isn't the same thing.

In case anyone thinks I'm just a cranky, anti-war activist, I am all for supporting our troops. Like most, I don't agree with the war itself but our people deserve all the support we can give them.
 

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We have yet to see a reply post from anyone in Toronto. So far we have replies from Kanata, Stoney Creek, Markham and Alberta. It's probably time to sit back and let the folks who actually pay for the TTC and Toronto Fire Trucks voice an opinion.
 

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Keep your opinion pieces on your own personal property (car, bike, backpack, house, whatever) but stay away from collective property.
Well said.

<i>Police shouldn't be allowed to wear memorial arm bands on their uniform when another dies.</i>
Don’t you think that there is a difference between that and support for the military? Are the Toronto firefighters an arm of the Canadian military?

In Quebec, there were pressure tactics by the SQ (Provincial police), they plastered their vehicles with stickers supporting their union – by your logic this is perfectly acceptable.

I don’t think that publicly funded resources should be used for ostensibly partisan/political reasons.
 

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While we're at it I think we should scrap the support for MADD's red ribbon campaign. Nurses shouldn't be allowed to show their support for breast cancer either, let's rip those damn pink ribbons off their uniform. Police shouldn't be allowed to wear memorial arm bands on their uniform when another dies. God forbid any of our civil servants show any patriotism to this great country, or support to any worthy cause, not on my tax dime.
Got nothing to do w/ patriotism, either way. It has everything to do with publicly funded property becoming a signpost for every decent and pissant cause you can dream up. Go ahead, wear a (small) ribbon/pin/armband/whatever.

As Macified noted, you want to buy an ad and splash it across the bus, go for it. Otherwise, keep that police cruiser/ambulance/fire truck/whatever free & clear.
 

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Don’t you think that there is a difference between that and support for the military? Are the Toronto firefighters an arm of the Canadian military?
No but they both risk their lives for the people of this country, if anyone can empathize with our troops it's them. A "Support our Troops" decal on anything private or public property should not offend anyone, if it does, you're in the wrong country. There is more than one war being fought, and that has been fought, and every Canadian should show support to all of them, no matter where they are.
 

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I'd like my police officer to support Gay rights and SSM - how come they can't plaster stickers on the public vehicles with that?
 

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How are supporting our troops, impaired driving or cancer awareness pissant causes?
MADD is a political organization. While they have raised drunk driving awareness, they have other stances that I vehemently disagree with.
Also, they are not the most giving charity by any means
MADD's `exorbitant costs' anger charity's volunteers
People who donate to Mothers Against Drunk Driving are told by the charity that most of the $12 million it raises annually is spent on good works — stopping drunk driving and helping families traumatized by fatal crashes.
But a Star investigation reveals most of the high-profile charity's money is spent on fundraising and administration, leaving only about 19 cents of each donor dollar for charitable works.
TheStar.com - News - MADD's `exorbitant costs' anger charity's volunteers
So why should public funded organizations/resources give them free publicity?
 

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So are you saying police should stop the red ribbon campaign since the ribbon on the antenna of their car is offensive? There are a lot of causes that have double edged swords, but should we stopped trying? We're still giving money to Africa, even though it is full of corruption.

Have any tried to support Gay rights and SSM and been stopped from doing it? I'm sure if someone wanted to they could, I can't see any police cheif dumb enough to stop that.
 

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The stickers should stay yet again Miller is blowing hot air out his mouth along with his kiss ass lieutenant Howard Moscoe, the City of Toronto has bigger issues to deal with other than whether fire trucks and other public vehicles should have stickers supporting our troops in Afghanistan, roads and there constant state of disrepair should be addressed, the TTC's lack of customer support and lack of accountability to the city for there huge budget that swallows up more than half of Toronto's yearly budget, Miller spending god knows how much (last time I checked it was up to 4.5mil) on his office renovations and hiring new staff, Toronto and it's council have run out of ideas on how to maintain the city of Toronto so much so that the only way left for them to raise more money is trying to figure out which taxes should be levied on the citizens of Toronto. I don't hate Toronto but there are other places around here that I would rather be living in right now.

Laterz :)
 

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So are you saying police should stop the red ribbon campaign since the ribbon on the antenna of their car is offensive? There are a lot of causes that have double edged swords, but should we stopped trying? We're still giving money to Africa, even though it is full of corruption.

Have any tried to support Gay rights and SSM and been stopped from doing it? I'm sure if someone wanted to they could, I can't see any police cheif dumb enough to stop that.
A red ribbon on a police cruiser antenna isn't so much a political statement as a reminder to think about the potential outcomes of DUI. As such it is an extension of the police duty to serve and protect.

A troop support ribbon on a bus is a political statement that is not shared by everyone in the city. Issues where everyone is in agreement are really just moot points here. Cancer = bad, drunk driving = bad, Canadian troops in Afghanistan = divisive issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
plenty of good, debatable points.

i guess my beef is that these are OUR soldiers and it doesn't matter where they are, we should support them. I'm not saying support their mandate at the time b/c, as i said before, they don't determine where they go...they go where they're told.

the point is that these are our fellow Canadians and we should patriotically support them no matter what. I guess it's a fine line b/n supporting them directly and supporting their mission if that makes sense.

i totally disagree with the rants about putting gay, lesbian, and cancer stickers etc... on public vehicles. totally different than supporting our troops.

Anyhoo, free speech is a good thing, hence a good debate.

but someone was right, I hope TDot remembers this the next time a few inches of snow invade and they have to call in the reinforcements...

enjoy the day,
Keebler
 

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Well, the city was speaking for it's poeple..the "lefties" of Toronto. 8)

As for MADD, I found out last year that 80% of their funding is used to pay out it's members...WTF!!! I will continue to give money to CHEO but never to MADD.
 
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