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Old May 13th, 2012, 11:17 PM   #5191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GratuitousApplesauce View Post
Nobody wants a "nanny state". That phrase is nothing but a straw man set up by right wingers who care nothing for freedom, but who only want to shrink government services for economic reasons.

All bureaucracies as they get larger tend toward authoritarianism, whether in government or in large corporations. Control is in the hands of a few, accountability is absent and scores of lower level functionaries follow strict unbending rules. The answer to this is to make organizations transparent and accountable to their stakeholders, not to disband organizations that might otherwise be performing services that people want and need.

The zeal to slash services from conservatives like Harper's crew has nothing to do with preventing a so-called nanny state or improving the delivery of services. They just want to make sure that any nannies in charge are their own friends and benefactors in the private sector.
Right, Harper does NOT want to end the nanny state. You just want different nannies in charge--the transparent and accountable kind. I believe these reside in the land of unicorns.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 08:52 AM   #5192
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Except for when he's apologizing for the current band of thugs running the country, MF appears to be arguing that no politicians can ever be trusted with public money, and that there should therefore not be any public money. Unfortunately, he has the weight of history behind his argument, as it's nearly impossible to find an example of a politician who consistently and demonstrably fulfilled the public trust.

However this will always be true as long as human beings are running things. And, while I find the idea interesting, I'm not confident we could convince the majority of Canadians that a well-programmed (open source, of course) computer could allocate our public resources more efficiently and fairly than any people we may elect. So we will inevitably suffer the foibles of human error, and occasionally human greed.

What I think we're suffering at the hands of the Harper Government (I hesitate to even call them Conservatives anymore, as they clearly aren't interested in conserving any of the aspects of Canada I consider valuable) are the consequences of human malice and spite.

Far from being a 'nanny state' the Harper Government appears keen on doing as much damage (economic, environmental, social and with respect to our international reputation) to the country while they have this luxury of unchecked power. Presumably they all plan to bog off to cushy consulting jobs in the US or elsewhere once their mandate has expired.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 09:34 AM   #5193
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Originally Posted by MacDoc View Post
They ARE abusing the committees - stonewalling is just as abusive. No Prime Minister in Canadian history has a abused and misused parliament the way Harper has.

I suggest you catch up

Is this still a democracy? You be the judge | iPolitics

The article concludes after a long list



and Chantal Hebert is correctly disgusted...



Politics and its Discontents: The Sad Saga Of Our Declining Democracy Continues

Hebert's column
Canada News: Hébert: Ballot box seen as dead end rather than means to an end - thestar.com

and you continue to apologize for this travesty and somehow try to justify it and say it demands "respect" and is open and honest.

Horsepucky - Harper does NOT have a mandate from the majority of Canadians and he is abusing that fact and the flawed voting system that leads to it. No amount of whitewashing will change the reality that he is debasing Canadian democracy and making Canada a pariah..
Get over yourself MacDoc I think I am as "caught up" as anyone else here seeing as I live it every day I don't have to resort to columnists and/or pundits for an opinion because mine in based on what I see for myself first hand.

I think you need to check your facts. I have never once said "it demands "respect" and is open and honest." I have said a lot of things about Parliamentary Procedure and shot down a lot of mistruths but never once said that.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 09:37 AM   #5194
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Just saying . . .

More secret committee meetings under Liberals than Harper's Tories

Quote:
OTTAWA - Stephen Harper's Conservatives have been accused of using their majority to hide too much House of Commons committee business behind closed doors.

But an analysis of Library of Parliament data for the last decade shows the championship title for secretive committee work actually belongs to former prime minister Paul Martin's Liberals.

Harper's Tories aren't even the runners up; that honour goes to another Liberal regime, under Jean Chretien.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/more-secret...165703273.html
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Old May 14th, 2012, 10:02 AM   #5195
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Originally Posted by SINC View Post
More secret committee meetings under Liberals than Harper's Tories
The fact that previous governments have been contemptuous of democracy is not an excuse for the current government. I didn't like it when the Liberals did it, and I like it even less when a party that campaigned on "transparency and accountability" does it. The hypocrisy is disgusting.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 01:04 PM   #5196
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The fact that previous governments have been contemptuous of democracy is not an excuse for the current government. I didn't like it when the Liberals did it, and I like it even less when a party that campaigned on "transparency and accountability" does it. The hypocrisy is disgusting.
It's just that we heard little about these "contemptuous" acts of secrecy from Liberal supporters on EhMac while they were occurring.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 02:18 PM   #5197
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It's just that we heard little about these "contemptuous" acts of secrecy from Liberal supporters on EhMac while they were occurring.
I don't know any "Liberal supporters" (I voted Liberal in the last election, but I did so strategically, as I believed the Liberal candidate had the best chance of defeating the Conservative), but that may be true. Regardless, it certainly is not a valid excuse for the current government to engage in the same practices, especially when they ran on a campaign of "transparency and accountability."
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Old May 14th, 2012, 02:19 PM   #5198
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Originally Posted by bryanc View Post
I don't know any "Liberal supporters" (I voted Liberal in the last election, but I did so strategically, as I believed the Liberal candidate had the best chance of defeating the Conservative), but that may be true. Regardless, it certainly is not a valid excuse for the current government to engage in the same practices, especially when they ran on a campaign of "transparency and accountability."
Of course it isn't an excuse for them to merely carry on the practices of the previous government.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 08:52 PM   #5199
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Originally Posted by SINC View Post
Just saying . . .

More secret committee meetings under Liberals than Harper's Tories



More secret committee meetings under Liberals than Harper's Tories - Yahoo! News Canada
Just goes to show that majority governments are inherently broken form of government.

Why people think a majority government is the best form of governance is well beyond my comprehension.
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Old May 16th, 2012, 01:04 PM   #5200
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Just goes to show that majority governments are inherently broken form of government.

Why people think a majority government is the best form of governance is well beyond my comprehension.
While this was before my time coming to Canada, I personally think that some of the best social legislation came out of the Pearson minority governments.
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