The Canadian Political Thread - Page 508 - ehMac.ca
Facebook
Twitter
YouTube
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Advertise


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Apr 29th, 2012, 02:42 PM   #5071
Honourable Citizen
 
Macfury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Toronto Proper
Posts: 41,725
Quote:
Originally Posted by i-rui View Post
of course no one agrees 100% with eachother, but the signifigant difference here was it was an election promise and that means something (or at least should). Also, it wasn't just a throw away issue where it's natural for a difference of opinion - and further to that it wasn't just a difference of opinion voiced, it was an actual PMM in Parliament!
He did not promise to muzzle all private members. And it IS an issue where a difference of opinion is natural.

Quote:
Originally Posted by i-rui View Post
Harper has expelled MPs for less - i.e Helena Guergis (in essence for who she was married to), and Garth Turner for writing a Blog!
Turner was consistently attacking Conservative policies. No reason to support your enemies. Guergis, in essence because of what she was accused of at the time.
__________________
"My life is my own."

Mac Pro 5,1 3.2 GHZ Quad Core; MacBook Pro 1,1; iPhone 4
Macfury is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old Apr 29th, 2012, 02:49 PM   #5072
Honourable Citizen
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by screature View Post
Sigh... Yes it is entirely possible he was not aware of the PMM at the time of its submission. PMBs and PMMs are not vetted by PMO it would directly contradict the very notion of Private Members Business and the reason for its existence.
The PMO was fully aware. Woodworth announced in December of last year that he was considering submitting the PMM in 2012.
i-rui is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 29th, 2012, 02:52 PM   #5073
Honourable Citizen
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfury View Post
Turner was consistently attacking Conservative policies.
And Woodworth is attacking the supposed Conservative "promise" of not reopening the abortion debate.

Plus Woodworth is doing more than just speaking out about it on a blog, he has taken a far more serious step of a PMM.
i-rui is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 29th, 2012, 02:54 PM   #5074
Honourable Citizen
 
Macfury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Toronto Proper
Posts: 41,725
Quote:
Originally Posted by i-rui View Post
And Woodworth is attacking the "supposed" Conservative promise of not reopening the abortion debate.

Plus Woodworth is doing more than just speaking out about it on a blog, he has taken a far more serious step of a PMM.
Serious to you, because it involves abortion.
__________________
"My life is my own."

Mac Pro 5,1 3.2 GHZ Quad Core; MacBook Pro 1,1; iPhone 4
Macfury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 29th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #5075
Honourable Citizen
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfury View Post
Serious to you, because it involves abortion.
No "serious" because he has reached beyond the reasonable means of simply speaking out about his beliefs to whomever wished to hear his thoughts to bringing it before Parliament and using Parliament's resources to further his agenda against the stated Party promise that he as a member of said party was elected.

Exactly why the conservatives in this thread feel the need to attack my argument is beyond me.

I'm not saying the PM should ignore procedure, nor am I saying he doesn't have a right to submit his PMM (as screature claims I was).

I am simply suggesting that if the PM really wanted to keep his election promise he would expel those members who blatantly & rigorously disregard the promise he and the Party made. I am saying that if the PM expects people to accept him at his word then he exhibit an once of integrity on the matter.

Woodworth as an independent MP would still be allowed to submit his PMM. There would be no censorship as some have suggested, but there would be a repercussion for going against the Party on a serious matter.

Just as Bill Casey was expelled by Harper when he voted against the conservative budget in 2007. Did you defend Bill Casey for going against the Party then?
i-rui is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 29th, 2012, 03:19 PM   #5076
Honourable Citizen
 
BigDL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Moncton
Posts: 6,388
Quote:
Originally Posted by screature View Post
Mens rea refers to jurisprudence and as the situation has nothing to do jurisprudence the notion/concept/term is being misapplied.
Talk about your drive by smears and baseless accusations.

I never mentioned jurisprudence. I never mention intent. BTW "Mens Rea" is a legal concept dealing with intent or "guilty mind" why this is being brought to the conversation I'll never know.

Now the idea that OGL is more than capable of being solely in charge of everything enhances his plausible culpability does it not.
__________________
OGL breathed life back into the dying Bloc...way to go Steve!

Ad links aka CLICK BATE in my posts were not put there by me.

DO NOT CLICK on the random links in my post if not logged in as a member of this site.
BigDL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 29th, 2012, 03:28 PM   #5077
Honourable Citizen
 
screature's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Aylmer (Gatineau) across the river from Ottawa
Posts: 20,720
Quote:
Originally Posted by i-rui View Post
No "serious" because he has reached beyond the reasonable means of simply speaking out about his beliefs to whomever wished to hear his thoughts to bringing it before Parliament and using Parliament's resources to further his agenda against the stated Party promise that he as a member of said party was elected.

Exactly why the conservatives in this thread feel the need to attack my argument is beyond me.

I'm not saying the PM should ignore procedure, nor am I saying he doesn't have a right to submit his PMM (as screature claims I was).

I am simply suggesting that if the PM really wanted to keep his election promise he would expel those members who blatantly & rigorously disregard the promise he and the Party made. I am saying that if the PM expects people to accept him at his word then he exhibit an once of integrity on the matter.


Woodworth as an independent MP would still be allowed to submit his PMM. There would be no censorship as some have suggested, but there would be a repercussion for going against the Party on a serious matter.

Just as Bill Casey was expelled by Harper when he voted against the conservative budget in 2007. Did you defend Bill Casey for going against the Party then?
Essentially you are. The government did not move this motion. It breaks no promise that the government would not raise the issue as it has not. A Private Member has... it seems you would be much more iron fisted if you were the Leader of a Party.

Maybe you should run for the leadership of the Conservative Party so they would do things they way you want them to be done regardless of the separation between Government Orders and Private Members Business.

Bill Casey was expelled because he voted against a Government Bill and specifically the Budget, which is a whipped vote... a whole different kettle of fish and that you would attempt to compare the two shows exactly how little you appreciate the significant differences between Government Orders and Private Members Business.
screature is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 29th, 2012, 03:32 PM   #5078
Honourable Citizen
 
screature's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Aylmer (Gatineau) across the river from Ottawa
Posts: 20,720
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDL View Post
Talk about your drive by smears and baseless accusations.

I never mentioned jurisprudence. I never mention intent. BTW "Mens Rea" is a legal concept dealing with intent or "guilty mind" why this is being brought to the conversation I'll never know.

Now the idea that OGL is more than capable of being solely in charge of everything enhances his plausible culpability does it not.
Hardly drive by because you posted it again because no one replied to you... where was there a smear or accusation? Where did I say anything at all remotely personal pertaining to you? Seriously.
screature is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 29th, 2012, 03:33 PM   #5079
Honourable Citizen
 
BigDL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Moncton
Posts: 6,388
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanc View Post
This is the crux of the argument, and it comes down to a matter of judgement... do you believe that Harper either did not know of, or was not able to prevent the PMM? Or do you think it's more probable that Harper knew about it and chose to let it play out as a political ploy, knowing that it couldn't be pinned to him?

I guess it's a matter of how much you respect Harper's demonstrated abilities to control his caucus and use parliamentary procedure to his advantage.
OGL is not merely a passive passenger on the ship of state, OGL, is in charge of the Government. The government is in charge of how the business of the house is conducted, (yes, yes the government house leader has the direct responsibility) the Conservatives through OGL can do much with the politics of PMB(s), PMM(s).

When they go forward, when they are debated and time allocation etc. All, anyone has to do is look at the agenda to figure out how much or how little attention these matters receive versus other PMB(s) or PMM(s) to really understand the Government's interest in the matter.
__________________
OGL breathed life back into the dying Bloc...way to go Steve!

Ad links aka CLICK BATE in my posts were not put there by me.

DO NOT CLICK on the random links in my post if not logged in as a member of this site.
BigDL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 29th, 2012, 04:14 PM   #5080
Honourable Citizen
 
MLeh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Left coast
Posts: 2,972
Quote:
Originally Posted by screature View Post
Bill Casey was expelled because he voted against a Government Bill and specifically the Budget, which is a whipped vote... a whole different kettle of fish and that you would attempt to compare the two shows exactly how little you appreciate the significant differences between Government Orders and Private Members Business.
Quoted for truth.
__________________
"Without ambition one starts nothing. Without work one finishes nothing." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
MLeh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
canadian political discussion

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What do people use to watermark pictures? krs Mac, iPhone, iPad and iPod Help & Troubleshooting 20 Oct 17th, 2010 10:17 PM
This Macbook is my first and last Mac, switching back Pat McCrotch Anything Mac 123 Apr 17th, 2009 10:13 AM
The Mythical Separation of Church and State in the USA zenith Everything Else, eh! 31 May 23rd, 2008 02:40 PM
Harpo's Little Dictator headspace surfaces..... MacDoc Everything Else, eh! 242 Mar 7th, 2008 02:46 PM
Moe Norman - Canadian golf legend MACSPECTRUM Everything Else, eh! 11 May 12th, 2005 05:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:24 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999 - 2012, ehMac.ca All rights reserved. ehMac is not affiliated with Apple Inc. Mac, iPod, iTunes, iPhone, Apple TV are trademarks of Apple Inc. Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 RC 2

Tribe.ca: Urban living in Toronto!