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Old Oct 25th, 2008, 10:58 AM   #81
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I mean to say that people who have SUVs usually do not need the v8 or large v6 engine under the hood. They tend to seat as many people as a passenger car. Would a nice Subaru station wagon not have worked better for your needs and you could have taken a 4 cyl. engine?
Don't paint all SUVs with the same brush.

The "large" V-6 engine in my Suzuki Grand Vitara Limited is a whopping 2 litres. About the size of the milk carton in your fridge.
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Old Oct 25th, 2008, 11:21 AM   #82
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Also with varying loads there is no guarantee the 4 cylinder will be any more fuel efficient than a 6.
The big key is to have available short trip EVs - there is still a need for bigger load vehicles.
I see the main sales as a second "about town" vehicle while the bigger fossil fueled stay parked a lot more.

Damn insurance companies are a pain tho - I can only drive one vehicle at a time.



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Old Oct 25th, 2008, 12:14 PM   #83
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I'm sure it's been noted in here before, like, say, a million times - but the insurance business is simply legalized extortion. Insurance scammers in cahoots with the gubbmint to ensure that we are legally forced to carry insurance, no matter what price it's manipulated by these cozy partners in collusion.
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Old Oct 25th, 2008, 05:09 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Adrian. View Post
I mean to say that people who have SUVs usually do not need the v8 or large v6 engine under the hood. They tend to seat as many people as a passenger car. Would a nice Subaru station wagon not have worked better for your needs and you could have taken a 4 cyl. engine?
The only Subaru that I'm considering to purchase in the Future is the WRX STi, at the time I couldn't afford a brand new SUV but rest assured that I do light towing with the current one and my SUV has seen the odd offroad adventure as well and to boot it doesn't have a big V6 so it's better on gas than most of the giant Yukon and Explorer's that are out there. I'll be the 1st to admit tough is that I could use a bigger truck but I am waiting to see if GM comes out with a diesel Hummer H3.

Laterz
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Old Oct 25th, 2008, 05:31 PM   #85
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Also with varying loads there is no guarantee the 4 cylinder will be any more fuel efficient than a 6.
The big key is to have available short trip EVs - there is still a need for bigger load vehicles.
I see the main sales as a second "about town" vehicle while the bigger fossil fueled stay parked a lot more.

Damn insurance companies are a pain tho - I can only drive one vehicle at a time.
You are most correct. A horrible violator of this is Mazda with the CX-7 'crossover'. It has a 4 cyl. but a turbo running at 12 psi making about 270 horse. The 4 cyl. feature is highly misleading and the thing is thirsty for premium to booot!
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Old Oct 25th, 2008, 07:02 PM   #86
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What do you need a GMC Yukon for? It holds 5 people as most 4 cylinder cars do. The Xl's hold "9" but 7 comfortably and so does a mini van and when in the hell was the last time anyone ever saw someone in a Subruban, Yukon XL or an Escalade ESV with seven people in it?

Drive a mini van...

99.9% of the Yukons et al. I have ever seen on the road do not have hitches so don't bring that they have to haul their gas guzzling boats around.
Well..... some 4 cyl cars would be so underpowered that they would become less economical to run because you would have to keep you foot in it more often to maintain highway speeds. I lived through that with a 4 cyl Nissan 4x4 pickup, on paper it seemed like a great idea but at 70 mph on the 401 I would nearly have it floored so gas milage was dreadful.

When Ford came out with the Explorer I ordered one and it was considerably better on gas with it's 6 cyl engine and 5 spd manual tranny. I required a vehicle with 4-5 passenger capacity, 4WD, and light trailer towing duty.

As for V8 vs V6 it's going to depend a lot on what your needs are, if you are towning trailers that extra horsepower and torque can make a huge difference or if you carry a heavy load. Probably why the OPP road sgts and Toronto Ambulance supervisors run them now since they carry a pretty heavy load of support gear. Also some of those big truck based SUV's use full ladder chassis underneath vs unibody construction which is not as rugged.

And finally your size might matter..... a co worker reminded me of this the other night when we were comparing my gas costs vs his pickup truck. He said sure I can save a pile of $$$ driving a car like yours but you see how well I fit in it..... he was right I don't think he could fit comfortably behind the wheel of my car.

So I don't think it's quite as cut and dried as saying 4 cylinders are better than 6 or 8 for that matter.
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Old Oct 25th, 2008, 08:21 PM   #87
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Well..... some 4 cyl cars would be so underpowered that they would become less economical to run because you would have to keep you foot in it more often to maintain highway speeds. I lived through that with a 4 cyl Nissan 4x4 pickup, on paper it seemed like a great idea but at 70 mph on the 401 I would nearly have it floored so gas milage was dreadful.

When Ford came out with the Explorer I ordered one and it was considerably better on gas with it's 6 cyl engine and 5 spd manual tranny. I required a vehicle with 4-5 passenger capacity, 4WD, and light trailer towing duty.

As for V8 vs V6 it's going to depend a lot on what your needs are, if you are towning trailers that extra horsepower and torque can make a huge difference or if you carry a heavy load. Probably why the OPP road sgts and Toronto Ambulance supervisors run them now since they carry a pretty heavy load of support gear. Also some of those big truck based SUV's use full ladder chassis underneath vs unibody construction which is not as rugged.

And finally your size might matter..... a co worker reminded me of this the other night when we were comparing my gas costs vs his pickup truck. He said sure I can save a pile of $$$ driving a car like yours but you see how well I fit in it..... he was right I don't think he could fit comfortably behind the wheel of my car.

So I don't think it's quite as cut and dried as saying 4 cylinders are better than 6 or 8 for that matter.
I agree 100% with what you are saying. Nonetheless, it does not negate the fact that far too many people are driving SUVs like Yukons and Toyota Sequoias because they want to. I think to have to drive a car like that you should, morally, have some good reason to. Indeed, if you are 6.5' tall and 350 pounds a Toyota Yaris is not going to cut it, but buying an 8 cylinder Yukon Denali does not justify your needs.

I applaud you for purchasing a 6 cylinder car because you felt you needed a bigger car but an 8 Cyl. was far too large.

What really bugs me I suppose I am saying is those huge v8 trucks that seat five people, have no hitch and some guy in a suit is driving it. He clearly has no need for such a massive car.
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Old Oct 25th, 2008, 11:00 PM   #88
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100 years of engineering is no particular excuse - they missed this. ( I tend to agree with you which is why the title of the post )

Quote:
Truckers Choose Hydrogen Power
Stephen Leahy Email 11.15.05

Hundreds of semitrailer trucks zipping along North American highways are now powered in part by hydrogen. These 18-wheelers make hydrogen as they go, eliminating the need for high-pressure, cryogenic storage tanks or hydrogen filling stations, which, by the way, don't yet exist.

These truckers aren't just do-gooders. They like Canadian Hydrogen Energy's Hydrogen Fuel Injection, or HFI, system because it lets them save fuel, get more horsepower and, as a bonus, cause less pollution.

"We're saving $700 a month per truck on fuel," said Sherwin Fast, president of Great Plains Trucking in Salina, Kansas. The company tried the HFI system on four trucks and has ordered 25 more.

"Drivers like the increased power and noticed there is a lot less black smoke coming out of the stacks," said Fast.

HFI is a bolt-on, aftermarket part that injects small amounts of hydrogen into the engine air intake, said Canadian Hydrogen Energy's Steve Gilchrist. Fuel efficiency and horsepower are improved because hydrogen burns faster and hotter than diesel, dramatically boosting combustion efficiency.

"You get more work from the same amount of fuel," said Gilchrist.

This is not a new idea. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory at the California Institute of Technology published research on the uses of hydrogen as a combustion-enhancing agent in the early 1970s. But the ability to make hydrogen on the go is novel.

The sticking point for hydrogen has always been getting it. Unlike crude oil, natural gas, wind or solar energy, hydrogen doesn't exist freely in nature. It costs $5 a gallon to make hydrogen from natural gas.

But the HFI system uses electricity from an engine's alternator to power the electrolysis of water to produce hydrogen as needed from small amounts of distilled water.

"That's a big advantage and a bit of a novelty," said Venki Raman, an expert on hydrogen-energy applications who started Protium Energy Technologies.

HFI's manufacturer guarantees 10 percent fuel savings, which likely won't interest car companies or consumers, Raman said. But a reduction of pollution emissions could spur broader use.

Trucks with the HFI system produce half the amount of particulates -- microscopic, unburned bits of diesel. The system also reduces nitrogen-oxide emissions, which are major contributors to harmful air pollution, by up to 14 percent, according to Canada's Environmental Technology Verification Program.
Truckers Choose Hydrogen Power

Lots more current stuff here....

Hydrogen Gas Savers | Hydrogen Cars and Vehicles



Has anyone considered that perhaps this merely acts a restrictor reducing horsepower and gaining fuel mileage via that devious route.



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Old Oct 26th, 2008, 09:33 AM   #89
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evMini gets an early jump.

Quote:
Wanna get your hands on an all-electric Mini?
500 to be leased next year, but only in 3 states and at $850 a month


Each Mini E will have a large electric plug logo on the roof and its serial number showing on the side front panel.

BMW is jumping into OK it's actually more like testing the market for all-electric vehicles with its Mini brand, announcing a pilot project to lease 500 completely electric Minis in California, New Jersey and New York.

"By introducing the Mini E, the BMW Group is underscoring the resolve with which it works towards reducing energy consumption and emissions in road traffic," the company said in a statement ahead of the car's debut at the Los Angeles Auto Show on Nov. 19-20.

The specs aren't bad: a lithium-ion battery range of 150 miles, a top speed of 95 mph and 0-60 mph in 8.5 seconds.
more here All-electric Mini cars to be leased - Green Machines - MSNBC.com

I hope $50 oil and a slow economy does not derail EV again



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Old Oct 26th, 2008, 09:43 AM   #90
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That's great about the trucks!
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