Piracy, Torrents, and moral relativism..... - Page 6 - ehMac.ca
Facebook
Twitter
YouTube
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Advertise


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Jan 27th, 2008, 09:44 AM   #51
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by SINC View Post
Seems developers and the general populace, unlike city council, know crap when they see it.
As for the art I suppose it remains to be seen. The bylaw itself certainly sounds crapular.
doole is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old Jan 27th, 2008, 02:37 PM   #52
Honourable Citizen
 
EvanPitts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 6,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by doole View Post
Just like it's inventor, that mistress of all things horrific: Sheila Copps.
Trying to protect musicians is honourable, but the way they have been doing it serves no practical purpose. Piracy exists for a number of reasons. There are those who are cheapskates who want everything for free, so they pirate. Then there are those who would like to perhaps purchase a product but can not because it is unavailable locally, so they pirate. And there are those who do such things because the product is simply not available, whether it is "vaulted" or just not available. Of course, Sheila is not smart enough to see such things, so instead of dealing with piracy (especially when pirated material is resold as "genuine" for cash), she choose to promote a fake "levy" scheme to punish everyone. Sure, it is pennies per person per disk, but I think the true measure is that the levy does not go to the benefit of musicians - but to the whole machinery of corruption in this nation. And the levy does not address the fact that DVD media is used to pirate films, hence, film makers are loosing out on the same deal. And the same for software makers (who are subject to piracy via CD/DVD as well).

It is a policy simply made to make it look like the government is being tough on crime. And really, the only punishment that a pirate can really be charged with is that covered by the Telecommunications Act, charged with the same crime as "theft of telecommunications", or in other words, climbing a pole and stealing free telephone service or free cable tv. If they wanted to be serious, they would have serious punishments. Instead, it is just anohter cash cow to collect money that they could collect by raising taxes, but without the lost votes that greater taxation would yield.
EvanPitts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27th, 2008, 02:40 PM   #53
Honourable Citizen
 
EvanPitts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 6,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by SINC View Post
Edmonton city council imposed a bylaw on developers stating they must set aside one per cent of their budget and use the money to put public art into their projects.
Developers are notorious cheapskates... Perhaps they should forget about the art, and insist that developers actually use nails, or otherwise secure the houses they build to the foundations so the houses don't fly off in a windstorm. Wasn't it Edmonton that had a whole subdivision burn down because of vinyl siding, and houses being built too close together without proper fire hydrants??? They are also trying to ban Drive-Thrus as well...
EvanPitts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27th, 2008, 03:28 PM   #54
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas_m View Post
But really, my sense of ethics doesn't come from moral superiority, it comes from simple fairness. If I use something, I should pay for it. I'll certainly try to get the best possible price I can for it (hopeless capitalist, me) but theft just isn't on for me.

So there. Worship me, I'm an imaginary beast, like Mr. Snuffleupagus. But that's my honest outlook, and for some strange reason I have no trouble meeting people who think like I do on these topics.

I'm sure if you probed around you'd find areas where I'm more morally ambiguous, but when it comes to rewarding people who provide with services or objects of value, um no I don't think I am.

Just my two pence.
Really? In our society most of us are truly blind to our position of privilege relative to the rest of the world's peoples...

I'm not trying to beat you or anyone else up, but when folk like us try to take the moral high ground (I know, you said you're not but in the end you did) all they have to do is pick up almost any item in their house and then ask themselves how fair a price did they pay? Some of your possessions were made with slave or near slave labor in some far flung part of the world. Did they get a fair pay for their work? But I guess most people are not concerned about these non celebrities.

I really don't care if the top of the food chain people aren't getting paid, at least not now. Someday, when I hear that they're selling their daughters to brothels or working in a sweat shop making designer clothing then I'll start concerning myself with not paying for their work. Until then I don't think any of us in this part of the world is suffering too greatly (yes, I know there are exceptions such as northern peoples on the rez, but there are opportunities to escape that reality as well, unlike peoples in Asia or Central/South America).

And no, I'm not getting carried away. That's just the reality that most of us don't think of when we're shopping at Wal-Mart
skinnyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27th, 2008, 03:34 PM   #55
Honourable Citizen
 
JumboJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Oakville
Posts: 2,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnyboy View Post
Really? In our society most of us are truly blind to our position of privilege relative to the rest of the world's peoples...

I'm not trying to beat you or anyone else up, but when folk like us try to take the moral high ground (I know, you said you're not but in the end you did) all they have to do is pick up almost any item in their house and then ask themselves how fair a price did they pay? Some of your possessions were made with slave or near slave labor in some far flung part of the world. Did they get a fair pay for their work? But I guess most people are not concerned about these non celebrities.

I really don't care if the top of the food chain people aren't getting paid, at least not now. Someday, when I hear that they're selling their daughters to brothels or working in a sweat shop making designer clothing then I'll start concerning myself with not paying for their work. Until then I don't think any of us in this part of the world is suffering too greatly (yes, I know there are exceptions such as northern peoples on the rez, but there are opportunities to escape that reality as well, unlike peoples in Asia or Central/South America).

And no, I'm not getting carried away. That's just the reality that most of us don't think of when we're shopping at Wal-Mart
__________________
If things were different, they wouldn't be the same.
JumboJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27th, 2008, 04:35 PM   #56
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnyboy View Post
And no, I'm not getting carried away. That's just the reality that most of us don't think of when we're shopping at Wal-Mart
I hate all 'marts' and accordingly I don't go there. But most people do, judging by their financial performance.

I really don't think it's the consumer's fault, although that effect has actually forced me into an early retirement. (Used to run a 'local' hardware store.)

The unfortunate reality is that parts of this world did not experience the industrial revolution. (Or maybe the unfortunate reality is that the other parts of the world did. It is what it is.)

So various parts of the globe are out of phase with regards to culture, resources and so forth. It's a relatively new moral dilemma and nobody has learned how to deal with it properly, yet. (That I know of.) Add to that the fact that most third-world governments seem to be openly corrupt and it's hard to know how to help their have-not citizens.

All you can do is keep trying to do right things. I try to buy fair trade stuff, for instance. Does that help? Hard to know. If so, not much, probably.

It's been going on for a very long time but for the greater part of that time, we citizens of the western world have been blissfully unaware of it. The advent of electronic media is probably the only reason we're aware of it now.

But the fact that we are, and discussing it, is a slightly optimistic beginning, IMO. However, there won't be any quick fixes.
doole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27th, 2008, 05:47 PM   #57
Honourable Citizen
 
JumboJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Oakville
Posts: 2,670
Unfortunately "Fair Trade" organizations are run in third world countries, and the certification can be aquired by farmers with the money to pay for it. What the farmers do after that is anyones guess. A better run organization is the Rainforest Alliance, but their products are hard to find.
__________________
If things were different, they wouldn't be the same.
JumboJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27th, 2008, 05:58 PM   #58
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by JumboJones View Post
Unfortunately "Fair Trade" organizations are run in third world countries...
Well, yeah. Their own worst enemies, in a lot of ways.

You have to wonder how much "federal aid" goes directly into the pockets of despots, into the bargain.

Again, at least most of us are starting to get it.
doole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27th, 2008, 05:58 PM   #59
Honourable Citizen
 
chas_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 11,953
Send a message via AIM to chas_m
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnyboy View Post
Some of your possessions were made with slave or near slave labor in some far flung part of the world.
Well, since I don't shop at Wal-Mart for precisely this reason, I'm hopeful that not TOO many things I own were made with "slave" labour.

(I put "slave" in quotes because the Chinese workers do not actually meet the definition of the word "slaves" but I certainly see and respect your point.)

Quote:
And no, I'm not getting carried away. That's just the reality that most of us don't think of when we're shopping at Wal-Mart
I definitely appreciate your post and don't feel "beat up" in the slightest. I do make a conscious effort to avoid buying things that are obviously made by forced-labor or otherwise unsafe-condition type manufacturers. Not shopping at Wal-Mart is part of that effort, but one tries to go beyond that whenever possible. It's all part of that overall sense of ethics I was speaking of.

To me, ethics is a lot like spelling. I'm a good speller and generally have no use for a spell-checker (apart from a few tricky words my brain thinks look "right" when they are in fact misspelled), and I find it almost impossible to turn that function OFF and deliberately misspell things (like if you want to look "hip" and L33T and crap).

Similarly, having been lucky enough to have hung out with a lot of people of very sharp ethical vision, I feel like ethical behaviour comes naturally to me and have a hard time even TRYING to be deliberately dishonest. Even in situations where simply OMITTING the truth (ie not saying something false, just avoiding saying the "whole" truth) would be to my huge advantage, I have difficulty. This sometimes works against me!

I very much doubt I'm the only person here who feels that way, and thus I'm not "superior" to any of them.
chas_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27th, 2008, 06:14 PM   #60
Honourable Citizen
 
ErnstNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: St. John's NL
Posts: 1,241
To me, there is one answer: downloading copyrighted material is wrong.
I do it on occasion and I am wrong to do it.
The companies or musicians holding the rights to the material will vigorously defend their right to make a dollar on the work they own. I can't begrudge the shareholders making a few dollars.
There is no excuse for my actions.

What is wrong is the way they try to pry the money out of me.

Looking at the big picture, the multimedia companies brought it on themselves.
There are large corporations owning thousands of radio stations with pre-programmed playlists and d-jays' prerecorded voice overs. Formulated playlists of radio ga-ga. (thanks Freddie Mercury)
Commercials freely intermingled with the same music played over and over again till you can't stand it, hearing Nickelback's latest release every 2 hours drives me up the wall. Chad Kroeger is a rich man by all accounts.

I have the freedom to turn the dial but the dial is owned by too few.
FM Radio has lost, the winner is the internet and satellite radio. Radio as I knew it is not dead but evolving.

Where has all the good music gone?
Internet!
It's there but hard to find. I can find it with patience. I am constantly amazed and impressed with the quality of music on YouTube and their ilk. (Lots of dreck too.)
How many artists have made to the mainstream after being viewed on YouTube? I can think of a few.

There is so much music and video freely available (legal too!) and there are only so many waking hours.
Technology allows me to see and hear more music and video than I ever dreamed.
I have to be able to quickly recognize the garbage and filter it out. Get to the information I want, without fuss.
Have the multimedia companies done that? Not yet, though they are beginning to figure it out. Do multimedia execs expect everyone to go to every movie ever shown at the cineplex? The way they whine about losing profits it makes me wonder what planet they live on.
The battle for my dollar is about quality and value.


Video is relatively cheap to purchase if you have patience. I don't mind waiting a month after a new DVD release to own The Departed for $10. (used)
New release CD's are available for $12. I think that's a fair price. 15 years ago CD's were $20.
The market is evolving as it always does.
ErnstNL is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:01 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999 - 2012, ehMac.ca All rights reserved. ehMac is not affiliated with Apple Inc. Mac, iPod, iTunes, iPhone, Apple TV are trademarks of Apple Inc. Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 RC 2

Tribe.ca: Urban living in Toronto!