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Old May 12th, 2007, 01:28 AM   #1
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Angry Just what we need more MPs AND another party!!??

Quote:
Disgruntled Tories consider refounding Reform Party

GLORIA GALLOWAY
Globe and Mail Update
May 11, 2007 at 8:52 PM EDT

Ottawa — Somewhere in Kingston Saturday, a small group of disaffected Conservatives will meet to discuss what would have been unfathomable in the heady days that followed the last federal election: refounding the Reform Party.

Organizers say they have room for just 30 people, but that this weekend's event is a mere prelude to a much larger meeting later this month.

“It's now or never,” the online invitation says. “This new party will never be infiltrated by Red Tories, special interest groups or Quebec again.”

In another part of the country, Link Byfield is writing columns for his Citizens Centre for Freedom and Democracy that criticize the policies of the federal Conservatives.

“Has Stephen Harper been ‘Otta-washed?'” Mr. Byfield, a strong voice for small-c conservative Alberta, wrote on April 5. He went on to decry the March budget as a “massive spending splurge two or three times the rate of inflation [that] clomps big Liberal boots into all kinds of provincial responsibilities.”

When the Conservatives were elected in January, 2006, the former Reformers were jubilant at the thought of finally having a voice in Ottawa. But after a series of centrist decisions by Mr. Harper, they are again lamenting their disenfranchisement.

Connie Wilkins of Kingston, who owns freedominion.ca, one of the most popular conservative websites in Canada, has been invited to the weekend meeting.

At this point, she says, reforming Reform is just a discussion.

“The idea is just to get together and to decide how it would be best for people who have conservative values – stronger conservative values – to make their voices be heard better and to be listened to,” Ms. Wilkins said.

While it is impossible to gauge just how many on the right feel abandoned by the Harper government, she said Web traffic indicates their numbers are increasing.

Many were angry over what they see as the Prime Minister's capitulation on same-sex marriage. But it's not just socially conservative issues that upset the old Reformers, Ms. Wilkins said. “It's the fiscally liberal things that they have been doing lately that people have really started to get upset about.”

The fury began with the luring of David Emerson from the Liberals to sit as a Conservative cabinet minister, and the naming of Conservative organizer Michael Fortier as unelected senator and Public Works Minister.

Then came a vote to declare Quebeckers a nation, the budget, a settlement with Maher Arar that many found egregious, a reversal on income trusts, and a complete about-face on the environment.

A Conservative policy convention scheduled for November – an opportunity for expression of the dissatisfaction – has been cancelled.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

Welcome to Balkanland North American version.



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Old May 12th, 2007, 02:46 AM   #2
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Quote:
Disgruntled Tories consider refounding Reform Party
The article title is incorrect. The real "disgruntled Tories" continued to offer candidates under the "Progressive Conservative" banner. The Tories were conservatives, misguided, but at least they had a heart.

The Conservative party of Harper et al., is the reworked Reform Party with elements of the old Tory hard-right.

This new party, a refounding of the Reform party, would thus be disaffected members of the Conservative party - but they do not in any way merit the moniker "Tories".

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Old May 12th, 2007, 11:00 AM   #3
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Hopefully these righties will find success and splinter into ultra conservative populist parties.

Then moderate conservative parties could also form. Larger than the ultra conservative but smaller than the Conservative Party today. The ranks of the Conservative Party would diminish.

Perhaps the same could happen to the progressive thinking spectrum of politics as well. With my next views I do not I repeat DO NOT believe the Liberal Party is or has ever been a member of the progressive thinking spectrum of politics.

Then the Liberals and Conservative Parties will speak for the monied elite that are these Parties most important constituency. The same monied elite are in both parties and shift between the two in the direction as the political wind blows.

Perhaps if the political spectrum splinters and or we have electoral reform wherein a system of fair proportional representation is established perhaps then Canada will have true democracy in Parliament.
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Old May 12th, 2007, 04:40 PM   #4
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Hopefully these righties will find success and splinter into ultra conservative populist parties.

Then moderate conservative parties could also form. Larger than the ultra conservative but smaller than the Conservative Party today. The ranks of the Conservative Party would diminish.

Perhaps the same could happen to the progressive thinking spectrum of politics as well. With my next views I do not I repeat DO NOT believe the Liberal Party is or has ever been a member of the progressive thinking spectrum of politics.

Then the Liberals and Conservative Parties will speak for the monied elite that are these Parties most important constituency. The same monied elite are in both parties and shift between the two in the direction as the political wind blows.

Perhaps if the political spectrum splinters and or we have electoral reform wherein a system of fair proportional representation is established perhaps then Canada will have true democracy in Parliament.
A lot of truth in what you say.

I think the new Cons have always been a bit of an uncomfortable coalition. Centre-right, mostly fiscally con combined with harder-right social conservatives mostly from the west, who need to be kept muzzled if the new Cons are to have some kind of hope of mass appeal. The social-con nub has been quiet for a few years now and their foot-addicted mouths are jonsesing for a fix. If Harper doesn't get the success of a majority, that coalition will surely split up, something that would please me fer sure.

This move will put pressure on Harper to pay some more lip service to the harder-right social cons and the cons from the west in general. Of course this will mean that getting a broader Canadian appeal to gain that desired majority will be harder to do. I feel bad for your dilemma, Stevie — really.

As to PR, I think that will only occur if a party that has been previously burned by FPTP, somehow gets their hands on or near power and then gets a big enough push from the public in general. Some elements in the Cons remember getting shafted by FPTP previously and many prominent Reformers and PCers were in support of PR, until Harper came along and promised that he could create a right-wing coalition to make FPTP work for them. Those who are contemplating forming a right-wing splinter would have to recognize that they will be shut out without PR.

There is also the tiny, slim chance that the soulless power-mongers in all the parties might be beat out by those who actually support PR out of the principles of fairness and democracy. No, nevermind, that's just crazy optimism.
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Old May 12th, 2007, 11:48 PM   #5
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Thankfully, BigDL, your "progressives" are quickly getting run out of town.
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Old May 13th, 2007, 11:06 AM   #6
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You can't stop Balkanization if that's what the people want. No use getting upset about it... better to try and figure out how to prepare for yet another party clamouring for attention. I also wonder if we'd be seeing hints at this kind of splintering if we actually had strong, dynamic leaders - ones who aren't always checking the polls and their media gurus before opening their mouths or - perish the thought - making a decision.

Sometimes I think the old days of only a very few parties (ones with strong, clear dividing lines) is gone forever. Now we appear to have a smorgasbord of groups that shape-shift to on a dime for whatever happens to be currently politically expedient.

As ever, the people get the kind of politics they (we) deserve.
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Old May 13th, 2007, 11:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
You can't stop Balkanization if that's what the people want. No use getting upset about it... better to try and figure out how to prepare for yet another party clamouring for attention. I also wonder if we'd be seeing hints at this kind of splintering if we actually had strong, dynamic leaders - ones who aren't always checking the polls and their media gurus before opening their mouths or - perish the thought - making a decision.
Like the Excited States two party system
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Old May 13th, 2007, 11:44 AM   #8
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They fall victim to the same disease... media-fixation in place of policy-making and sticking to yer guns. It's a very modern disease and it's spreading.
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Old May 13th, 2007, 11:47 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Macfury View Post
Thankfully, BigDL, your "progressives" are quickly getting run out of town.
"Where's the meat" on that point? Easy to say so it must be Right, Right? So Right! It 's all Right in your world. Right? Is there ever enough Right in your view? "Right Right your bloody well Right you got every Right to saayhay"

ed note My apologies to SuperTramp
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Old May 13th, 2007, 11:52 AM   #10
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Well, we're talking politics, so maybe we need someone to step up and give us The Illogical Song.
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