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Old Oct 6th, 2004, 12:26 PM   #31
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Now THAT's the Andy I know and love.
Tongue solidly in cheek.
BTW "rolling back the tax cuts for those above $200,000" IS solid......AND warranted AND popular with the middle class.

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Sinc you gonna bat 1000.....being wrong about winners.
Not hope Cheney won that.
No bad blunders, just no answer to the serious questions.
Tie at best for Cheney, edge to Edwards likely.

Edwards really reminded me of RFK, toothy smile, tough little bastard underneath.
Sinc the US IS A TOTAL MESS.

It was hilarious Cheney and others trying to claim 9/11 was responsible for the job loss. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

and then the "no our casualities aren't 90%' nonsense. He had some cred on the $200 billion number being exaggerated but none on the casualities.

and this doesn't help the NeoCon cause in the least

Quote:
Bremer says not enough US troops to win in Iraq

AP
Wednesday, October 06, 2004

WASHINGTON (AP) - The White House refused to say yesterday whether the top US civilian official in Iraq after Saddam Hussein's ouster had asked the president for more troops to deal with the rapid descent of post-war Iraq into chaos.

In remarks published yesterday, the official, L Paul Bremer, said he arrived in Iraq on May 6, 2003 to find "horrid" looting and a very unstable situation - throwing new fuel onto the presidential campaign issue of whether the United States had sufficiently planned for the post-war situation in Iraq.

"We paid a big price for not stopping it because it established an atmosphere of lawlessness," Bremer said during an address to an insurance group. It released a summary of his remarks in Washington.

"We never had enough troops on the ground," Bremer said, while insisting that he was "more convinced than ever that regime change was the right thing to do."
are the American people wakening up????......here's hoping.



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Old Oct 6th, 2004, 01:21 PM   #32
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Ya I heard that too about Martin Luther King MACSPECTRUM.
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Old Oct 6th, 2004, 02:15 PM   #33
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SINC, my comment is an observation, not an endorsement. I don't care for either of the VP candidates. But then, it's not my election.

Personally, I don't see much of a difference in policy between Bush and Kerry, maybe the difference will lie in the execution of those policies and the political power structure behind each candidate.

The power structure behind Bush (including Cheney) is a little troubling and a concern.
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Old Oct 6th, 2004, 02:56 PM   #34
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Hmmm in open debate Cheney against a trial lawyer used to going against large corporations and winning big settlements.
I suspect it would be VERY arguable just who would eat who.

While it's not debate I think the format IS informative and revealing to the voter in way not offered in regular partisan campaigning.

As Kerry vs Bush the main difference in my mind is the approach to planetary governance.
Kerry wants senior partners to share both the cost and responsibility, Bush wants hangers on to provide a cloak of respectability while he does as he pleases.

His administration is, for good reason, simply reviled by the vast majority of the rest of the world and it's at his door not that of the American people or the ideals American purports to represent to the world.

Kerry and Edwards along with Clarke should begin to change that perception but they face no easy task given what they would be faced with in Iraq.

It WILL take all the rest of the world decades to deal with it.

It WAS being dealt with in a progressive if glacially slow manner as most things involving sovereign nations taking action against another MUST be given the current world governance.

Afghanistan is vitally important and no better task for Russia, US, Canada and the rest of the world than to eliminate Al Qaeda, keep up pressure on Pakistan and nation build in Afghanistan.

No more key state exists and if the world took a decade to help rebuild Afghanistan ( as it did with Germany and Japan after a war ) then it would be time and money well spent.

Iraq threatens, just as the shrubs father accurately observed, to destabilize the entire region.
Kurds, Shiities and Sunnis ALL have axes to grind in surrounding states and with each other.

Anarchy - which is close to what it is now, just brings divisions t the fore.

125,000 troops in a nation not much less in population than Canada with half under 25 and 3 distinct and hostile populations PLUS a magnet for other radical elements at war with the US.

It's unimaginable. 25 million Iraqis, millions of teen and young men, unemployed,many uneducated with 125,000 foreign"don't speak the language" troops to "bring peace, freedom and democracy."

Too many Captain America comics at shrub jrs breakfast table.
What a joke if it wasn't so tragic for so many.

Hubris writ large in a fragile and shrinking world.



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Old Oct 6th, 2004, 03:04 PM   #35
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Quote:
SINC, my comment is an observation, not an endorsement.
I took it as that kps.

I have no love for Bush or Cheney either. I just called it the way I saw it.

You have probably noticed that if some people do object to my observation or opinion, they cannot reply to me without using "barbs".

I understood your conclusion and was simply agreeing with the statement. Thanks for pointing out your position without using "barbs".

Cheers

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Old Oct 6th, 2004, 03:12 PM   #36
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Quote:
Hmmm in open debate Cheney against a trial lawyer used to going against large corporations and winning big settlements.
I suspect it would be VERY arguable just who would eat who.
Sure it's arguable, so is the fact that verdicts mean nothing in jury trials...remember the OJ trial?

Cheney intimidated the c*rap out of Edwards, something that would never have happened to RFK, to whom you compared Edwards.
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Old Oct 6th, 2004, 03:19 PM   #37
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SINC,

Yup, it's part and parcel of the online experience....
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Old Oct 6th, 2004, 03:31 PM   #38
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The MLK Jr. national holiday was a contentious issue, and not just in the southern US. I recall that when I taught in Waycross, Georgia, we had Robert E. Lee's birthday off, but not Lincoln's birthday. Georgia, the home state of King, went along with the national holiday, but many states throughout the US did not. Some states acknowledge the holiday, but cities and counties within the state need not observe this recognition for one of the finest Americans that ever lived, at least in my opinion.
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