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Dr.G. Sep 21st, 2017 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by screature (Post 2547057)
It not prejudicial at all, it is observational. There are more liberal teachers than conservative teachers especially as you go up the educational ladder, in this country at least. Maybe you should go to the big cities where their are more school's and universities than there are in small back waters and therefore more teachers on which to make such an observation.

Get a grip on what exactly, the facts, I think I have a pretty good grip on them already.

A valid point, screature. In the final analysis, there is no actual way to know the political leanings of every teacher in a country unless you poll all of these teachers. Since there is no such research, conclusions that teachers are mainly "right wing" or "left wing" or "moderates" is sheer speculation. Paix, mon ami.

Freddie_Biff Sep 22nd, 2017 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2547065)
A valid point, screature. In the final analysis, there is no actual way to know the political leanings of every teacher in a country unless you poll all of these teachers. Since there is no such research, conclusions that teachers are mainly "right wing" or "left wing" or "moderates" is sheer speculation. Paix, mon ami.


Not to mention irrelevant. My doctor my be obese himself but that does not mean he's going to recommend obesity as a healthy lifestyle. My mechanic may have a preference for Toyota but he's still going to do his best to repair my GM product. Certain clueless folks on these boards seem to think it is impossible for a teacher to have a Progressive mindset and still teach the curriculum objectively. These people have a rather shallow understanding of people.

Macfury Sep 22nd, 2017 09:12 AM

It isn't impossible--they just see no reason to do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddie_Biff (Post 2547193)
...seem to think it is impossible for a teacher to have a Progressive mindset and still teach the curriculum objectively.


Dr.G. Sep 22nd, 2017 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddie_Biff (Post 2547193)
Not to mention irrelevant. My doctor my be obese himself but that does not mean he's going to recommend obesity as a healthy lifestyle. My mechanic may have a preference for Toyota but he's still going to do his best to repair my GM product. Certain clueless folks on these boards seem to think it is impossible for a teacher to have a Progressive mindset and still teach the curriculum objectively. These people have a rather shallow understanding of people.

Good point, Frank. This is why I wish folks here in ehMacLand, including yours truly, would just state their opinions in a reasonable and friendly manner. Opinions are not fact, and if I think that US made cars are better than those made abroad, that is my opinion. The Honda Civic may be the #1 selling car in Canada last year, which is backed by fact, but I feel that a Toyota product is a better car for me, which is my opinion.

I just wish that there would be an end to the constant back and forth bickering found in many threads here in ehMacLand. We shall see if I get my wish. Paix, mon ami.

Macfury Sep 22nd, 2017 11:02 AM

You will not get your wish, Dr. G. Few matters will be permanently settled in your favour.

Dr.G. Sep 22nd, 2017 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfury (Post 2547313)
You will not get your wish, Dr. G. Few matters will be permanently settled in your favour.

I am not looking for "matters" to be "settled" in my favor. I would just like opinions to be considered, then accepted or rejected as one's opinion, without the personal attacks. Your posting is an example, in my opinion, of a reasonable response. I would have said "You may not get your wish" rather than to use the words "will not", but that is a matter of semantics. While you and I don't agree many times on various issues, at least you are reasonable in your disagreements with me. Paix, mon ami.

FeXL Sep 22nd, 2017 03:08 PM

Well, screature, that's your opinion & it's worth every bit it took to put it onscreen...

Quote:

Originally Posted by screature (Post 2547057)
Get a grip on what exactly, the facts, I think I have a pretty good grip on them already.


Rps Sep 23rd, 2017 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfury (Post 2547265)
It isn't impossible--they just see no reason to do it.

Well, I teach....so which way do I “ lean”, left or right?

Macfury Sep 23rd, 2017 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rps (Post 2548121)
Well, I teach....so which way do I “ lean”, left or right?

Based on what I've seen here, I would put you right down the middle. Left on some, right on others.

FeXL Sep 23rd, 2017 04:02 PM

Just as good a thread as any...

Dallas School Board Designates Founding Fathers As Having "Confederate Links"

Quote:

The Dallas Independent School District is in damage control mode after an internal school board list was obtained by local press which shows schools under consideration for name changes due to possible "connections with slavery or the Confederacy." News of the list, obtained by the Dallas Morning News early this week, caused outrage for the fact that it includes Texas revolutionaries and founders such as Sam Houston, James Bowie and William Travis, as well as Dallas pioneers James Gaston and William Brown Miller. It further names other early American figures who very obviously lived long before the existence of the Confederacy such as U.S. presidents Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and, inexplicably, Ben Franklin.
No bias & definitely not politically correct. Nope...

Shtoopid, shtoopid, shtoopid.

Rps Sep 23rd, 2017 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfury (Post 2548153)
Based on what I've seen here, I would put you right down the middle. Left on some, right on others.

And I think you will find that with many people, teachers included....it’s the issues that count....and, yes, some issues I may be left leaning others I may be right leaning. You can not generalise and say all teachers are left or right. So again, we are discussing the politics of education via association. A little Paulo Freire would go well now I think.

Dr.G. Sep 23rd, 2017 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rps (Post 2548193)
And I think you will find that with many people, teachers included....it’s the issues that count....and, yes, some issues I may be left leaning others I may be right leaning. You can not generalise and say all teachers are left or right. So again, we are discussing the politics of education via association. A little Paulo Freire would go well now I think.

:clap::clap::clap: Well said, mon ami. PF would be proud. Paix.

Macfury Sep 23rd, 2017 10:10 PM

I'm not interested in what they think as much as what they teach. I have personally viewed leftist scoped classes and instruction at the vast majority of classes with students I know. I find it unlikely that anyone who has a basis in logical conservatism would suddenly lose their mind and then spout leftist dogma in class, but maybe you could convince me that this is how some people operate.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Rps (Post 2548193)
And I think you will find that with many people, teachers included....it’s the issues that count....and, yes, some issues I may be left leaning others I may be right leaning. You can not generalise and say all teachers are left or right. So again, we are discussing the politics of education via association. A little Paulo Freire would go well now I think.


Dr.G. Sep 24th, 2017 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfury (Post 2548385)
I'm not interested in what they think as much as what they teach. I have personally viewed leftist scoped classes and instruction at the vast majority of classes with students I know. I find it unlikely that anyone who has a basis in logical conservatism would suddenly lose their mind and then spout leftist dogma in class, but maybe you could convince me that this is how some people operate.

I would think that someone who has a "basis in logical conservatism" would realize that what he experienced/observed cannot be extrapolated to cover ALL classrooms in North America. Use your logic, mon ami. What you viewed and experienced might have been this way, so your observations are correct. And maybe these observations were of "leftist scoped classes", but it is only your opinion that this is what it was/is like in all other classrooms. Paix.

Rps Sep 24th, 2017 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfury (Post 2548385)
I'm not interested in what they think as much as what they teach. I have personally viewed leftist scoped classes and instruction at the vast majority of classes with students I know. I find it unlikely that anyone who has a basis in logical conservatism would suddenly lose their mind and then spout leftist dogma in class, but maybe you could convince me that this is how some people operate.

Leftist dogma is an interesting phrase. At one time Universal Healthcare, Social Insurance, Unemployed Insurance, and a host of others were considered Leftist, along with universal education for our youth, Health and Safety ...you get the drill. So our current socio-cultural environment, which for the most part is generally accepted as what makes the fabric of being Canadian.....that leftist dogma?

Dr.G. Sep 24th, 2017 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rps (Post 2548521)
Leftist dogma is an interesting phrase. At one time Universal Healthcare, Social Insurance, Unemployed Insurance, and a host of others were considered Leftist, along with universal education for our youth, Health and Safety ...you get the drill. So our current socio-cultural environment, which for the most part is generally accepted as what makes the fabric of being Canadian.....that leftist dogma?

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Beej Sep 24th, 2017 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rps (Post 2548521)
Leftist dogma is an interesting phrase. At one time Universal Healthcare, Social Insurance, Unemployed Insurance, and a host of others were considered Leftist, along with universal education for our youth, Health and Safety ...you get the drill. So our current socio-cultural environment, which for the most part is generally accepted as what makes the fabric of being Canadian.....that leftist dogma?

I agree with the idea of public healthcare and education, but the sensitivity of educators to the claim of being broadly left wing is odd. How many generalizations have you glossed over before focusing on this topic?

Rps Sep 24th, 2017 12:21 PM

Beej, I think the heart of this current discussion is all about generalisations. The premise stated above was that educators have a left bias and inculcate that bias in their classes.......which I personally believe is blatantly wrong. And, again, it is difficult to discuss education without introducing politics......I had hoped this thread would take a different bent.

Beej Sep 24th, 2017 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rps (Post 2548601)
I had hoped this thread would take a different bent.

It didn't. The norm is conversational debate including logical flaws and short cuts. For some reason this topic resulted in the request for strict logical standards. That is notable.

Macfury Sep 24th, 2017 01:07 PM

In the US, political affiliation is easier to track. In 2014, this study found that nationally, colleges and universities had a six to one ratio of liberal to conservative professors. In New England, the figure was 28 to one. If anything, Canada is culturally to the left of the US.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...-professoriate

Dr.G. Sep 24th, 2017 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beej (Post 2548593)
I agree with the idea of public healthcare and education, but the sensitivity of educators to the claim of being broadly left wing is odd. How many generalizations have you glossed over before focusing on this topic?

A valid point, Beej.

Macfury Sep 24th, 2017 01:08 PM

Yes, in the manner applied and at the political level it's administered, it's leftist dogma that's infiltrated mainstream culture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rps (Post 2548521)
Leftist dogma is an interesting phrase. At one time Universal Healthcare, Social Insurance, Unemployed Insurance, and a host of others were considered Leftist, along with universal education for our youth, Health and Safety ...you get the drill. So our current socio-cultural environment, which for the most part is generally accepted as what makes the fabric of being Canadian.....that leftist dogma?


Rps Sep 24th, 2017 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfury (Post 2548673)
In the US, political affiliation is easier to track. In 2014, this study found that nationally, colleges and universities had a six to one ratio of liberal to conservative professors. In New England, the figure was 28 to one. If anything, Canada is culturally to the left of the US.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...-professoriate

Hell! At one time we were considered down right Communist compared to the U.S.

Rps Sep 24th, 2017 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfury (Post 2548689)
Yes, in the manner applied and at the political level it's administered, it's leftist dogma that's infiltrated mainstream culture.

There is a left, right, and centre in everything...even Libertarianism. Which raises an interesting question ( and forgive the teacher in me here ) “Does the dogma create the culture or does the culture create the dogma”. Discuss.....

Macfury Sep 24th, 2017 01:22 PM

Dogma reiterated infiltrates culture. For example, I can see dogma about child molesters as sensitive victims infiltrating society--already much more prevalent in the UK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rps (Post 2548713)
There is a left, right, and centre in everything...even Libertarianism. Which raises an interesting question ( and forgive the teacher in me here ) “Does the dogma create the culture or does the culture create the dogma”. Discuss.....


Rps Sep 24th, 2017 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfury (Post 2548721)
Dogma reiterated infiltrates culture. For example, I can see dogma about child molesters as sensitive victims infiltrating society--already much more prevalent in the UK.

Great choice of subject MacFury, I will be disappointed if there isn’t a lot of discussion now....but dogma, in my mind, is driven by authority and is presented as a truth. So, who in authority (and I think this is the crux of your point as to what authority is ) states this as a truth? The trouble with truth is, at least to me, is that truth is a collection of generally accepted consensus. Truth is not an absolute in today’s world....and politically that is almost a certainty, it is more of a belief.

screature Sep 24th, 2017 02:56 PM

pass.

Rps Sep 24th, 2017 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by screature (Post 2548905)
pass.

Screature, both you and I know MacFury is button pushing, but the point that dogma inflitrates curricula is a valid question......

screature Sep 24th, 2017 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2547289)
Good point, Frank. This is why I wish folks here in ehMacLand, including yours truly, would just state their opinions in a reasonable and friendly manner. Opinions are not fact, and if I think that US made cars are better than those made abroad, that is my opinion. The Honda Civic may be the #1 selling car in Canada last year, which is backed by fact, but I feel that a Toyota product is a better car for me, which is my opinion.

I just wish that there would be an end to the constant back and forth bickering found in many threads here in ehMacLand. We shall see if I get my wish. Paix, mon ami.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfury (Post 2547313)
You will not get your wish, Dr. G. Few matters will be permanently settled in your favour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2547321)
I am not looking for "matters" to be "settled" in my favor. I would just like opinions to be considered, then accepted or rejected as one's opinion, without the personal attacks. Your posting is an example, in my opinion, of a reasonable response. I would have said "You may not get your wish" rather than to use the words "will not", but that is a matter of semantics. While you and I don't agree many times on various issues, at least you are reasonable in your disagreements with me. Paix, mon ami.

In favour of what? One's opinion? Dr.G. never implied that. All he postulated was a place where one could express their opinion without being personally castigated for it, cut and dry. He never mentioned anything about, "permanently settled in your favour". What is that supposed to mean? Dr.G. has expressed himself, but, based on your post and since this is a public forum, I felt the need to comment.

All he is asking for is a more polite and diplomatic discourse, free of ad hominem attacks. Personally I think that is doable or at least for members to try and stifle themselves sometimes when it comes personally attacking another member... In the Trump era that seems unlikely, but one can only hope.

screature Sep 24th, 2017 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rps (Post 2548913)
Screature, both you and I know MacFury is button pushing, but the point that dogma inflitrates curricula is a valid question......

Yeah, I had a response post all triggered up and ready to go... I actually posted it but on second thought made it a pass.

Rps Sep 24th, 2017 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by screature (Post 2548937)
Yeah, I had a response post all triggered up and ready to go... I actually posted it but on second thought made it a pass.

Yes, but it is interesting about the reply on dogma, it has all the current political trappings. First take an emotionally charged topic, frame it as if a movement is supporting a contention, then place it in a distant area that by doing so somehow is a threat to “us”, all using unnamed sources as having the power to elicit an undesirable social change.....if this were the American Political Thread I would say it was right out of Trump’s playbook.

But back to the root ...the contention that a left driven authority is using its dogma to influence curricula......so the driver, which was not really answered, does dogma drive society or does society drive dogma remains a fair point to debate, all trolling aside. This “Hidden Curriculum” can not be cast aside....but is it generational or constantly evolving? That said, what play does social media have on our view of education?

Freddie_Biff Sep 24th, 2017 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rps (Post 2548521)
Leftist dogma is an interesting phrase. At one time Universal Healthcare, Social Insurance, Unemployed Insurance, and a host of others were considered Leftist, along with universal education for our youth, Health and Safety ...you get the drill. So our current socio-cultural environment, which for the most part is generally accepted as what makes the fabric of being Canadian.....that leftist dogma?


He has a hard time accepting that most Canadians gladly embrace some of the ideals of "the left" if it makes for better lives.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

FeXL Sep 24th, 2017 04:27 PM

This coming from the guy who posted this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by screature (Post 2545937)
People on the right, in general, seem to just want to help themselves.

Serious? You castigate a broad swath of the population in one fell swoop & expect "a more polite and diplomatic discourse"?

Screw you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by screature (Post 2548929)
All he is asking for is a more polite and diplomatic discourse, free of ad hominem attacks. Personally I think that is doable...


Freddie_Biff Sep 24th, 2017 04:31 PM

And another mature reply from FeXL, ladies and gentlemen.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

screature Sep 24th, 2017 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfury (Post 2548673)
In the US, political affiliation is easier to track. In 2014, this study found that nationally, colleges and universities had a six to one ratio of liberal to conservative professors. In New England, the figure was 28 to one. If anything, Canada is culturally to the left of the US.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...-professoriate

Based on what? Your opinion?

But yes I agree, Canada is culturally left to the US. Even though I detest JT and most of his Cabinet, they are are a Helluva lot better than anyone in Trump's circus of puppets.

The thing that you do not seem to understand MF is that politics is not black and white.

Due to you being locked into a certain form of political doctrine it seems you do not get the bigger picture. I say this with no word of exaggeration, if you support Donald Trump and his policies or lack there of, you support bringing the world write large onto to brink of WWIII. This is no hyperbole on my part. Read!!!

screature Sep 24th, 2017 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeXL (Post 2548961)
This coming from the guy who posted this:



Serious? You castigate a broad swath of the population in one fell swoop & expect "a more polite and diplomatic discourse"?

Screw you.


You just proved my point.

It was my stated opinion at the time and as expected you added ad an hominem attack. 'Nough said. I could say more but decency dictates that I don't.

Beej Sep 24th, 2017 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfury (Post 2548673)

Thanks for the link. Good to see some data offered in this discussion.

Macfury Sep 24th, 2017 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rps (Post 2548737)
Great choice of subject MacFury, I will be disappointed if there isn’t a lot of discussion now....but dogma, in my mind, is driven by authority and is presented as a truth. So, who in authority (and I think this is the crux of your point as to what authority is ) states this as a truth? The trouble with truth is, at least to me, is that truth is a collection of generally accepted consensus. Truth is not an absolute in today’s world....and politically that is almost a certainty, it is more of a belief.

I'm seeing media reports in the UK softening up on pedophelia. For example, a strict division between pedophiles who simply get off on watching children being molested, or on depictions of children being molested. The argument goes that they're avoiding attacks on children by accessing child pornography--so lets go easy on child pornography. Then the notion that perhaps pedophilia harms some people, but not all people. That many children grow up to find it was a positive experience for them.

The first line of infiltration is media attempting to normalize the behaviour, so that pedophiles are not absolutely bad, pedophilia is not absolutely wrong and the experiences of children who are molested are not 100% negative. When media looks for authority in matter such as this, it's usually an academic or psychiatrist.

Macfury Sep 24th, 2017 06:26 PM

Yes, based on my opinion. Socialized medicine and other government takeovers of private services.

I support Trump nominally, not fully. Only some of his policies are good. But I did not support any of Hillary Clinton's policies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by screature (Post 2548977)
Based on what? Your opinion?

But yes I agree, Canada is culturally left to the US. Even though I detest JT and most of his Cabinet, they are are a Helluva lot better than anyone in Trump's circus of puppets.

The thing that you do not seem to understand MF is that politics is not black and white.

Due to you being locked into a certain form of political doctrine it seems you do not get the bigger picture. I say this with no word of exaggeration, if you support Donald Trump and his policies or lack there of, you support bringing the world write large onto to brink of WWIII. This is no hyperbole on my part. Read!!!


Rps Sep 24th, 2017 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfury (Post 2549009)
I'm seeing media reports in the UK softening up on pedophelia. For example, a strict division between pedophiles who simply get off on watching children being molested, or on depictions of children being molested. The argument goes that they're avoiding attacks on children by accessing child pornography--so lets go easy on child pornography. Then the notion that perhaps pedophilia harms some people, but not all people. That many children grow up to find it was a positive experience for them.

The first line of infiltration is media attempting to normalize the behaviour, so that pedophiles are not absolutely bad, pedophilia is not absolutely wrong and the experiences of children who are molested are not 100% negative. When media looks for authority in matter such as this, it's usually an academic or psychiatrist.

I have read about that as well, but I believe the notion is child pornography lessens the chance of actual child abuse by some of the population......personally I believe pornography is the “ gateway drug”, but back to your reply which was on dogma, and you nicely avoided. Does dogma inform or influence a society or does the society influence and inform dogma. As I indicated above, dogma presumes an authority that presents a view as a truth, your example hardly would count as an item held by authority, or as a truth.......it might be an outlier opinion though......look at climate change, is it a true truth or a dogma truth?

In education, we deal with both. The curricula is determined by the government...so when a politicalised subject matter is to be taught, is it dogma or a truth? My answer to that is based on two things, time and social change. Again I hate to bring up our old friend Louis Riel but, at my age, he fits.


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