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Freddie_Biff Sep 12th, 2017 02:25 PM

Like I said, that didn't take long. Contrarians gonna go contrary.


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FeXL Sep 12th, 2017 02:27 PM

These incidents used to be isolated. We are far beyond that. They are now commonplace.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2541881)
I do, and I still contend that isolated incidents cannot be generalized beyond a reasonable horizon.


Dr.G. Sep 12th, 2017 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeXL (Post 2541897)
There is no such things as "free" tuition. Somebody is always paying for it. If not corporate & private donors via scholarships, bursaries, etc., then the taxpayer.

True. Still, if it helps qualified students obtain a meaningful college/university education, then it is worth the cost.

Have you ever seen the amount of the Harvard Endowment Fund? It could pay for rebuilding all the damaged homes in Texas due to the destruction of Hurricane Harvey. :eek:

FeXL Sep 12th, 2017 02:32 PM

It's called a discussion, Freddie. Something that you, with all your edumacation & years of teaching, are mentally unable to conduct.

Talk about past behaviour confirming present...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddie_Biff (Post 2541905)
Like I said, that didn't take long. Contrarians gonna go contrary.


Macfury Sep 12th, 2017 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2541857)
Well, you would have to have observed and interviewed each of these teachers for this statement to be valid.

I only need to know how they teach and hear of the fear in students' voices of expressing the ideas they possess.

FeXL Sep 12th, 2017 02:42 PM

Question: Do we need all of these people attending university, college, tech school? 'Cause you just know that people who normally wouldn't sign up for one are now going to do so, on a lark. They'll hang for a semester or three with their childhood friends, or a member of their favourite sex, or their drinking buddies or because their parents told them to get some post-secondary eddication now that it's free.

Then they'll drop out and all that "free" money that could have been used on something constructive was just wasted.

You know as well as I that things earned have far more intrinsic value than those things merely given. If you truly want to go to post-secondary you will find a way to not only go, but to stay & succeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2541921)
True. Still, if it helps qualified students obtain a meaningful college/university education, then it is worth the cost.


Dr.G. Sep 12th, 2017 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddie_Biff (Post 2541905)
Like I said, that didn't take long. Contrarians gonna go contrary.


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Birds Gotta Fly, Fish Gotta Swim. :)

Dr.G. Sep 12th, 2017 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeXL (Post 2541913)
These incidents used to be isolated. We are far beyond that. They are now commonplace.

Well, as I have told my friend, Macfury, just because you say so does not make it so. Paix, mon ami.

Dr.G. Sep 12th, 2017 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeXL (Post 2541945)
Question: Do we need all of these people attending university, college, tech school? 'Cause you just know that people who normally wouldn't sign up for one are now going to do so, on a lark. They'll hang for a semester or three with their childhood friends, or a member of their favourite sex, or their drinking buddies or because their parents told them to get some post-secondary eddication now that it's free.

Then they'll drop out and all that "free" money that could have been used on something constructive was just wasted.

You know as well as I that things earned have far more intrinsic value than those things merely given. If you truly want to go to post-secondary you will find a way to not only go, but to stay & succeed.

If they are not qualified, then they should not be allowed to enter. If they can't maintain certain standards, then they should not be allowed to stay. The State of Georgia has a good system of support, funded by the profits they make on the Georgia Lottery.

I lucked out way back when and was able to convince a bank manager to loan me $750, with no collateral, so I could go to university for one year. All I could offer was my promise to do well and to eventually pay off every penny that I would borrow. These were the days before federally guaranteed loans. I made good on my promise and paid back my four years of student loans ............. and was still able to obtain four university degrees.

So, I am in favor of giving individual students like myself the chance to succeed based on their own merits and accomplishments. Does this make me a Libertarian like my brother Macfury???

FeXL Sep 12th, 2017 03:14 PM

I've provided evidence to support my position.

You've provided none.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2541961)
Well, as I have told my friend, Macfury, just because you say so does not make it so. Paix, mon ami.


FeXL Sep 12th, 2017 03:26 PM

You know as well as I do that it doesn't take much to gain post-secondary acceptance, nor to hang around at a C level.

As far as standards are concerned, do you think that the post-secondary institutions are going to raise or lower their standards under pressure from governments to make political hay with all this "free" education money? It's not going to look very good if there are all these people gaining entrance to university & getting kicked out after first year because certain standards couldn't be met, is it?

In addition, the point is not whether they're maintaining acceptable standards. It's if they should be there in the first place & if they're going to last the long run, not a semester or three before they get bored & move on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2541969)
If they are not qualified, then they should not be allowed to enter. If they can't maintain certain standards, then they should not be allowed to stay.

Good for you. Seeing as you had to go out & get your education money rather than just get a gov't handout, don't you think that provided just a little extra kick in the pants to succeed? I certainly do. You've made my point for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2541969)
So, I am in favor of giving individual students like myself the chance to succeed based on their own merits and accomplishments.

Doubtful. But you'd have to ask a Libertarian...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2541969)
Does this make me a Libertarian like my brother Macfury???


Macfury Sep 12th, 2017 03:34 PM

Ontario currently has a program designed to get failed high school students into college. They teach high school AT a college, then declare one of the courses to be a combined high school/college course. Voila, they are all in college!

Dr.G. Sep 12th, 2017 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeXL (Post 2541977)
I've provided evidence to support my position.

You've provided none.

My point is that you have generalized based on a few examples. You may say that these examples demonstrate some POV, but that does not necessarily make it so. I make no broad generalizations since there is no way I would be able to collect reliable and valid data.

Dr.G. Sep 12th, 2017 04:12 PM

"You know as well as I do that it doesn't take much to gain post-secondary acceptance, nor to hang around at a C level." FeXL, this is what I like about the State of Georgia model. You have to maintain an average of B each year that you want to apply for this grant. It is not just given to a student -- each student has to earn it.

Dr.G. Sep 12th, 2017 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfury (Post 2541993)
Ontario currently has a program designed to get failed high school students into college. They teach high school AT a college, then declare one of the courses to be a combined high school/college course. Voila, they are all in college!

Interesting, if true. I know that my son wanted to take a degree program at U of T, but could not get into the program with a 3.2 (out of 4) average. He was able to get into a similar program at Ryerson.

FeXL Sep 12th, 2017 04:17 PM

So what guarantees do we have that this sensible-sounding program will be implemented in Ontario?

Zero...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2542025)
FeXL, this is what I like about the State of Georgia model. You have to maintain an average of B each year that you want to apply for this grant. It is not just given to a student -- each student has to earn it.


FeXL Sep 12th, 2017 04:20 PM

I quoted a few examples from many available. I don't know how many or what it would take to convince you otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2542017)
My point is that you have generalized based on a few examples.


FeXL Sep 12th, 2017 04:22 PM

So, Freddie, question: Why is it that anyone who disagrees with you or offers an alternative viewpoint is a "contrarian"?

Why aren't you ever the "contrarian"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddie_Biff (Post 2541905)
Contrarians gonna go contrary.


Dr.G. Sep 12th, 2017 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeXL (Post 2542041)
So what guarantees do we have that this sensible-sounding program will be implemented in Ontario?

Zero...

I have no idea, mon ami. I am really not that familiar with the post secondary system in ON.

Dr.G. Sep 12th, 2017 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeXL (Post 2542049)
I quoted a few examples from many available. I don't know how many or what it would take to convince you otherwise.

My point is that one cannot make a broad generalization statement (e.g., everyone posting in this thread is a socialist) with just a limited number of anecdotal examples. Granted, I was hopeful when I read that one study that said that drinking red wine in moderation was helpful for one's heart, but it was only one study. Thus, while the finding in that one study may be accurate, it cannot be extended to all people in all situations. That is the problem with gathering and presenting reliable and valid statistics ............. there needs to be documented research, analysis and accuracy before a broad generalization might be made.

Dr.G. Sep 12th, 2017 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeXL (Post 2542073)
So, Freddie, question: Why is it that anyone who disagrees with you or offers an alternative viewpoint is a "contrarian"?

Why aren't you ever the "contrarian"?

I thought that Frank was a British Columbian. :D

Freddie_Biff Sep 12th, 2017 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2541953)
Birds Gotta Fly, Fish Gotta Swim. :)


Indeed. Haters gonna hate. Some people like to argue for the sake of arguing. Snakes gonna slither. Mosquitoes gonna bite. Vultures gonna feast on dead things.

Freddie_Biff Sep 12th, 2017 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2542017)
My point is that you have generalized based on a few examples. You may say that these examples demonstrate some POV, but that does not necessarily make it so. I make no broad generalizations since there is no way I would be able to collect reliable and valid data.


Good luck with this, Marc. My experience is that contrarians believe what they want to believe.


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Dr.G. Sep 12th, 2017 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddie_Biff (Post 2542241)
Good luck with this, Marc. My experience is that contrarians believe what they want to believe.


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We shall see. Paix, mon ami.

Freddie_Biff Sep 12th, 2017 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2542113)
I thought that Frank was a British Columbian. :D


I'm an Albertan born and raised, though I have spent many summer vacations in British Columbia. [emoji16]

Dr.G. Sep 12th, 2017 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddie_Biff (Post 2542257)
I'm an Albertan born and raised, though I have spent many summer vacations in British Columbia. [emoji16]

I thought so, but I needed something to rhyme with contrarian. I could have said Martian. :D

Freddie_Biff Sep 12th, 2017 06:52 PM

The Education Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2542273)
I thought so, but I needed something to rhyme with contrarian. I could have said Martian. :D


Or Bulgarian. Or Agrarian. Or Octogenarian.

Macfury Sep 12th, 2017 06:56 PM

Contrarian--anyone disagreeing with Freddie's ill-considered opinions.

Dr.G. Sep 12th, 2017 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddie_Biff (Post 2542305)
Or Bulgarian. Or Agrarian. Or Octogenarian.

Nova Scotian ........... Labradorian ............. Librarian ................ :D

Dr.G. Sep 12th, 2017 08:31 PM

B.C. budget funds 3,500 teachers, homes for homeless; hikes taxes on rich | National Post

Question is, where are they going to find these many teachers?

Dr.G. Sep 12th, 2017 08:34 PM

Breakfast program funding increase on the menu this fall - Nova Scotia - CBC News

Another very smart move here in NS.

Beej Sep 12th, 2017 09:41 PM

This guy is doing some interesting research on the value of education:
Education's Selfish and Social Returns, Bryan Caplan | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty

A major problem is measuring what higher education accomplishes is that the people who get post secondary degrees are not a random sample. A lot of the value derives from a potentially escalating game of "signalling" whereby more resources are being put into being seen as having the right credentials, not in actually having more and more useful skills. A complex area of research.

The slideshow he offers at the link is a bit technical (in language, not math). You have been warned about clicking through.

Freddie_Biff Sep 13th, 2017 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2542409)
Nova Scotian ........... Labradorian ............. Librarian ................ :D



Ooh, I like librarian. Or Aquarian. Or terrarium. Or planetarium. Or...


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Dr.G. Sep 13th, 2017 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddie_Biff (Post 2542489)
Ooh, I like librarian. Or Aquarian. Or terrarium. Or planetarium. Or...


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I see you more as a Summarian rastafarian, with a wife named Marion, and the two of you educate the masses with your clay tablets.

Freddie_Biff Sep 13th, 2017 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2542553)
I see you more as a Summarian rastafarian, with a wife named Marion, and the two of you educate the masses with your clay tablets.


So, Larry an' me were remarking about what a clever rhymin' Simon you turned out to be. [emoji16]

FeXL Sep 13th, 2017 12:22 PM

Well, this thread has certainly been educating... XX)

Dr.G. Sep 13th, 2017 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddie_Biff (Post 2542737)
So, Larry an' me were remarking about what a clever rhymin' Simon you turned out to be. [emoji16]

:lmao::clap::lmao:

screature Sep 13th, 2017 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.G. (Post 2541225)
A fine idea for a thread, Steve. I have been a teacher, in one capacity or the next, at various age/grade levels, for 40 years. I still agree with Einstein. Paix, mon ami.

I agree with this completely. Education is about training the mind how to think. Sure some facts and figures have to go along with the the program, but training the mind to think is the most important thing.

Just like a potential athlete is taught all the techniques of a given sport but if they fail to be able to perform them they will not go very far in their respective sport in competition. But that does not mean they do not have something to teach others who just by genetics have greater physical capabilities than they they do. The teachers by their physical failures can still teach those with greater genetic abilities to use their mind to overcome matter. Most likely their physical limitations developed their mental strength to try to still become competitive.

Macfury Sep 13th, 2017 02:40 PM

But telling students that "man is responsible for climate change" or "the life of a starfish i as important as that of a human" or "Christopher Columbus was an oppressive white racist" do not leave room to think--only for some to to react.

Quote:

Originally Posted by screature (Post 2542929)
I agree with this completely. Education is about training the mind how to think. Sure some facts and figures have to go along with the the program, but training the mind to think is the most important thing.


wonderings Sep 13th, 2017 03:25 PM

What do science classrooms teach these days about gender? This is a hot button topic at the moment. Science obviously has it down pretty simply with biology but that is not what the media is telling us these days.


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