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Old Feb 6th, 2015, 08:57 PM   #21
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I guess it's where you decide to pick your numbers. MSNBC pulls in half to a third of Fox's numbers (PrimeTime average), but none of those numbers are as low as 55-thousand. In any case, it's true - MSNBC lies to far fewer viewers than does Fox News.

So I guess... Fox wins? (what, the booby prize?)
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Old Feb 6th, 2015, 09:06 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by FeXL View Post
What a crock. For a guy with a PhD, CM, your debating skills, your ability to present a cogent argument & defend it with empirical evidence, really suck.
Personal attacks. How lovely. Thankfully, in none of my educational pursuits was I in a position to be judged by the likes of you.

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And, as SINC noted, do you really think that a record of 31% or 60% accuracy in the news is noteworthy? Something to be proud of? Would you consider either number as an acceptable mark on your child's report card? Would you have earned any of your degrees with marks like that?
Before you get yourself too worked up, you might step back and consider that I'm not supporting MSNBC or anyone. I was simply pointing out that the Right Holy Fox News Channel (blessings be unto Murdoch), the darling of the non-Left, is even worse than the example you presented, and worse to more people more often.

The best we can do as viewers, as recipients of published news material, is to keep in mind the inherent biases they all present, to whom they are beholden at the end of the day (which corporate / political / class interest), and attempt as much as possible to gather multiple perspectives on issues to attempt to decipher the bullshit and get to the grain.

Your outrage is amusing.
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Old Feb 6th, 2015, 09:56 PM   #23
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Personal attacks. How lovely. Thankfully, in none of my educational pursuits was I in a position to be judged by the likes of you.
Victim!!!! Oh, it has been a long time...

Not nearly a personal attack as much as an assessment of your debating skill. I'm not judging you, I'm judging your ability to piece together a cogent argument & defend it. Read the first quote in my signature. If my criticism stings...

The toughest marker I ever had in university ended up being my mentor. I am proud to have learned from him. If I had presented to him a paper containing all the red herrings you have introduced into this argument, he would have given me an F. Much the same as I'm doing to you...

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Before you get yourself too worked up, you might step back and consider that I'm not supporting MSNBC or anyone. I was simply pointing out that the Right Holy Fox News Channel (blessings be unto Murdoch), the darling of the non-Left, is even worse than the example you presented, and worse to more people more often.
The example I presented was that Brian Williams, erstwhile respected member of the press, outright lied about a story for the last 12 years. It had nothing to do with any particular network. Read the thread title, again. The fact that he works for NBC is a moot point. Red herring, argument fail.

As for Fox News, as a definitive member of the "non-Left", I've never watched it. Again, my observation was about an individual, not a network. Same red herring, argument fail.

Your argument that 60% accuracy in newscasts is more acceptable than 18% or 31% is more an indictment of the lows to which modern society's standards have sunk rather than an endorsement of the least offensive player in the game. It is also totally irrelevant to the central issue and another red herring. Argument fail.

Address the topic: Do you endorse the press lying to the people at any time? Why/Why not?

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The best we can do as viewers, blah, blah, blah...
As a viewer, I shouldn't have to interpret the news. Period. I should be able to get all sides of the argument presented in a factual, objective fashion & be able to draw my own conclusions without having to do a weeks worth of homework to check the so-called "facts" of every 30 second news clip run on TV tonite.

Where is the accountability?

There is none. Zero.

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Your outrage is amusing.
What outrage?
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Old Feb 7th, 2015, 10:41 AM   #24
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So, if you clicked on my link from yesterday to Ace of Spades there was a story about a pilot corroborating Williams' story.

Today, the pilot is questioning his recollection of the events.

Pilot Retracts Corroboration for Williams' Story

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On Friday morning, Krell told me that "the information I gave you was true based on my memories, but at this point I am questioning my memories."
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Old Feb 7th, 2015, 10:45 AM   #25
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Is NBC complicit in the lie?

Jake Tapper: Did NBC Deliberately Mislead In Brian Williams' Original Chopper Report To Make It Seem As If His "Bird" Were Under Fire?

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Possibly explosive stuff, or it would be, if the network gave f***-all about its reputation any more, which it very much does not.

The key thing here, per Stars & Stripes reporter Travis Tritten, is that NBC played action-packed Under Fire radio chatter presented as if it were taken from Williams' own bird, when in fact it was relayed from the other choppers.
Italics from the link.

From the sounds of it, NBC has no plans to take action against Williams. For that, corporate heads should roll. In addition, if Williams had any self-respect at all <snort>, he'd resign...
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Old Feb 7th, 2015, 11:33 AM   #26
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Is NBC complicit in the lie?

Jake Tapper: Did NBC Deliberately Mislead In Brian Williams' Original Chopper Report To Make It Seem As If His "Bird" Were Under Fire?



Italics from the link.

From the sounds of it, NBC has no plans to take action against Williams. For that, corporate heads should roll. In addition, if Williams had any self-respect at all <snort>, he'd resign...
The misdirection seems to be top down:
NBC News President Deborah Turness' memo on Brian Williams
Quote:
NEW YORK (AP) — The following memo was sent from NBC News President Deborah Turness to NBC news staff on Friday:
All,
This has been a difficult few days for all of us at NBC News.
Yesterday, Brian and I spoke to the Nightly News team. And this morning at the Editorial Exchange, we both addressed the wider group. Brian apologized once again, and specifically expressed how sorry he is for the impact this has had on all of you and on this proud organization.
As you would expect, we have a team dedicated to gathering the facts to help us make sense of all that has transpired. We're working on what the best next steps are — and when we have something to communicate we will of course share it with you.
Since joining NBC News, I've seen great strength and resilience. We are a close-knit family, and your response this week has made that even clearer.
As a relentless news agenda marches on, thank you again for continuing to do what we do best — bring the most important stories of the day to our audience.
Deborah
Appropriate if she was creating a Conman talking point, but certainly does nothing for NBC.
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Old Feb 7th, 2015, 11:45 AM   #27
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Here's the reference:

MSNBC suffers lowest ratings in a decade - POLITICO.com

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The liberal cable news network drew an average of 55,000 viewers in the all-important 25- to 54-year-old demo on Tuesday, its lowest full-day rating since July 2005, according to Nielsen ratings provided by an industry source. CNN had nearly three times as many viewers in the demo, Fox News nearly five times as many.
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I guess it's where you decide to pick your numbers. MSNBC pulls in half to a third of Fox's numbers (PrimeTime average), but none of those numbers are as low as 55-thousand. In any case, it's true - MSNBC lies to far fewer viewers than does Fox News.
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Old Feb 8th, 2015, 12:38 PM   #28
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Just a question FeXL. I Googled MSM news and could find nothing. Did you perhaps mean MSN? If so maybe edit the title of the thread for accuracy.
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Old Feb 8th, 2015, 06:44 PM   #29
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Just a question FeXL. I Googled MSM news and could find nothing. Did you perhaps mean MSN? If so maybe edit the title of the thread for accuracy.
It took me a while to figure it out, I believe MSM could be referring to 'main stream media' although I've never seen that acronym used.

I think the bigger problem is that we no longer have reporters and journalists. We have actors and models who wouldn't know how to 'investigate' a story even if they had an absolute exclusive and there was a Pulitzer if the job was even done half right. (I might even question how many of today's 'newspeople' even know much about the award).

I agree with FeXL. Today's news media has become the 21st century equivalent to standing on the sidewalk and looking up in the sky. Eventually you'll have a crowd of people doing the same. What I mean is that anyone with an Internet account can post something. Often this can be a public relations person. If enough people repeat or refer to that post, it will gain traction. Eventually a recognized news service or network will often report on it. The 'story' grows a life of its own and in some cases becomes the story. Rarely will someone stop and take the time to look for the facts.

I believe a large part of the problem is a result of the 24 hour news stations. Too many hours to fill with content and not enough content.

I also blame our attention spans. In The Big Chill (a movie that is over 30 years old), Jeff Goldblum's character talks about his work writing for People Magazine. I couldn't find the actual quite but it refers to writing stories that were "short enough for people to read while they are sitting on the toilet". Today's 'news' stories are shorter than that.

I remember newspapers that had stories that started on Page 1 and were continued later in the first section, sometimes on multiple pages. I can't remember the last time I read a story that was longer than a few paragraphs. Or one that was worth reading past the first few sentences.
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Old Feb 8th, 2015, 11:05 PM   #30
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Agreed. I occasionally crack a 50-year-old TIME or NEWSWEEK and I doubt very much most of today's reporters would understand the meaning of the words used in those articles. Also, half of the magazine wasn't taken up with entertainment news.

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I think the bigger problem is that we no longer have reporters and journalists. We have actors and models who wouldn't know how to 'investigate' a story even if they had an absolute exclusive and there was a Pulitzer if the job was even done half right. (I might even question how many of today's 'newspeople' even know much about the award).
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