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Old Apr 1st, 2013, 02:36 PM   #11
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Once this hydrocarbon pollution is removed from the Earth, it will be burned up and never return there again.


Are you really this confused about the basic science of the carbon cycle and how hydrocarbons come to be found in the ground?

Before we started extracting hydrocarbons, they'd been accumulating at a relatively constant rate as a result of geological processes that burry organic materials formed from CO2 that has been reduced by photosynthesis. Over many millions of years, a substantial amount of the global carbon pool has become sequestered, resulting in a significant decrease in atmospheric CO2, and a net cooling of the planet. Over the past century, humans have extracted and oxidized a lot of that material, dramatically shifting the equilibrium, and unsurprisingly, disrupting the climate in the process.
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Old Apr 1st, 2013, 03:47 PM   #12
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Are you really this confused about the basic science of the carbon cycle and how hydrocarbons come to be found in the ground?

Before we started extracting hydrocarbons, they'd been accumulating at a relatively constant rate as a result of geological processes that burry organic materials formed from CO2 that has been reduced by photosynthesis. Over many millions of years, a substantial amount of the global carbon pool has become sequestered, resulting in a significant decrease in atmospheric CO2, and a net cooling of the planet. Over the past century, humans have extracted and oxidized a lot of that material, dramatically shifting the equilibrium, and unsurprisingly, disrupting the climate in the process.
But of course i understand it. However, I have seen no useful proof that the climate has been "disrupted."
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Old Apr 2nd, 2013, 12:44 PM   #13
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I have seen no useful proof that the climate has been "disrupted."
Well there's your problem right there. The evidence that the climate has been disrupted comes from empirical scientific research; and you clearly have no clue as to how that process works. Science does not prove things; it falsifies. The ACC theory, which says that our release of GHGs over the past century has disrupted the climate, fits the data very well and therefore has not been falsified. Neither has it been proven; like evolutionary theory, gravitational theory, quantum mechanical theory, and other established scientific theories, it remains the accepted paradigm because it is the best explanation for the data, not because there is proof.

If you would like to try to falsify ACC, knock yourself out; but it is people with Ph.D.s in climatology you will have to convince, not a bunch of neo-conservative bloggers and oil industry shills on the internet, so you'll need to start by earning a Ph.D. in a relevant discipline, and then establishing a track record of contributing novel insights into the mechanisms of climate change, before anyone who's opinion counts for anything will have much interest in what you may have to say. I strongly suspect that by the time you accomplished these feats, you'd understand the field so much better, your position on the validity of ACC would be reversed.
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Old Apr 2nd, 2013, 12:48 PM   #14
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Well there's your problem right there. The evidence that the climate has been disrupted comes from empirical scientific research; and you clearly have no clue as to how that process works. Science does not prove things; it falsifies. The ACC theory, which says that our release of GHGs over the past century has disrupted the climate, fits the data very well and therefore has not been falsified. Neither has it been proven; like evolutionary theory, gravitational theory, quantum mechanical theory, and other established scientific theories, it remains the accepted paradigm because it is the best explanation for the data, not because there is proof.

If you would like to try to falsify ACC, knock yourself out; but it is people with Ph.D.s in climatology you will have to convince, not a bunch of neo-conservative bloggers and oil industry shills on the internet, so you'll need to start by earning a Ph.D. in a relevant discipline, and then establishing a track record of contributing novel insights into the mechanisms of climate change, before anyone who's opinion counts for anything will have much interest in what you may have to say. I strongly suspect that by the time you accomplished these feats, you'd understand the field so much better, your position on the validity of ACC would be reversed.
Yes, ACC as a useful theory for describing significant changes to climate has been falsified. That will take a while to sink in for those who are heavily invested in Gaia-worship, green energy, research grants for global warming studies, etc. Major retreats by the IPCC, the Met Office and other bodies on ACC are just the beginning.
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Old Apr 2nd, 2013, 12:53 PM   #15
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Yes, ACC as a useful theory for describing significant changes to climate has been falsified.
The only people qualified to make such a statement are consistently saying the exact opposite.

If the global community of climate researchers change their position, I will happily accept their expert opinion. Until that time, the arrogant claims of uninformed political activists is simply the denial of scientific progress. This is anti-intellectualism at best, and ethically reprehensible sabotage of social progress at worst.
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Old Apr 2nd, 2013, 12:54 PM   #16
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The only people qualified to make such a statement are consistently saying the exact opposite.

If the global community of climate researchers change their position, I will happily accept their expert opinion. Until that time, the arrogant claims of uninformed political activists is simply the denial of scientific progress. This is anti-intellectualism at best, and ethically reprehensible sabotage of social progress at worst.
They don't change their opinion all at once. However, the cracks are forming.
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Old Apr 2nd, 2013, 01:02 PM   #17
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They don't change their opinion all at once. However, the cracks are forming.
I haven't seen any evidence of this. However, if they change their position, I will, perforce change mine. They are the experts.
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Old Jan 31st, 2015, 10:47 AM   #18
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Some people are drunk on their irrational fears of fossil fuels. From the same link:
Yeah... or not.

Fracking linked to 4.4 magnitude quake in Fox Creek

Quote:
Alberta's provincial energy regulator says a significant earthquake in northern Alberta was likely caused by hydraulic fracturing.

If fracturing is confirmed as the cause, scientists say, it will have been the largest earthquake ever to result from an industrial operation.

Residents in the town of Fox Creek noticed the earthquake a week ago on Jan. 22. It was of 4.4 magnitude, severe enough to cause minor damage.

"It felt like a big gust of wind hit the house. The door flew open and the couch moved," said Kelli Mcphee
Quote:
Fox Creek, a town of about 2,000 people, is largely sustained by oil and gas development.

That work often uses hydraulic fracturing, or “fracking,” a process that injects a high-pressure mixture of water and chemicals into the earth to break through rock.

In an emailed statement to CBC, the Alberta Energy Regulator said its monitoring system picked up strong evidence that fracking caused this recent earthquake and likely triggered others too, although it is "impossible to definitively state that it was not a naturally occurring event."

The link between fracking and earthquakes is a phenomenon that several scientists are now studying.

“We have been seeing earthquakes for about the last year in that area, starting with events just above magnitude 3,” said David Eaton, a professor of geophysics at the University of Calgary.

“In most cases, those earthquakes have occurred in association with industry activity such as hydraulic fracturing.”
(CBC)
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Old Jan 31st, 2015, 10:52 AM   #19
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For some reason, I read the topic as Twerking, not Fracking. Guess my first read would depend who was doing it. Time to clean the glasses and have another coffee!
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Old Jan 31st, 2015, 11:53 AM   #20
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At least CMhad the decency to include the salient quote:

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...although it is "impossible to definitively state that it was not a naturally occurring event."
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