: Schizophrenia treatable with antibiotics?


CubaMark
Mar 2nd, 2012, 01:08 PM
Wow.

Scientists shocked to find antibiotics alleviate symptoms of schizophrenia (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-shocked-to-find-antibiotics-alleviate-symptoms-of-schizophrenia-7469121.html)

http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article7469053.ece/ALTERNATES/w380/Pg-10-schizophrenia.jpg (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-shocked-to-find-antibiotics-alleviate-symptoms-of-schizophrenia-7469121.html)

A cheap antibiotic normally prescribed to teenagers for acne is to be tested as a treatment to alleviate the symptoms of psychosis in patients with schizophrenia, in a trial that could advance scientific understanding of the causes of mental illness.

The National Institute for Health Research is funding a £1.9m trial of minocycline, which will begin recruiting patients in the UK next month. The research follows case reports from Japan in which the drug was prescribed to patients with schizophrenia who had infections and led to dramatic improvements in their psychotic symptoms.

(More on this story at the Independent UK (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-shocked-to-find-antibiotics-alleviate-symptoms-of-schizophrenia-7469121.html))

BigDL
Mar 2nd, 2012, 01:42 PM
For a long time the medical community focused on the symptoms and not the cause.

The idea of suppressing the symptoms was the only answer looked for.

I wonder if other conditions besides depression and Alzheimer's disease such as Bipolar (Manic Depression) are physiological based (of a sick body) rather than than psychological (of a sick mind) and could be effectively treated by curing the body rather than suppressing the activity of the mind.

Very interesting and quite surprising.

screature
Mar 2nd, 2012, 01:56 PM
For a long time the medical community focused on the symptoms and not the cause.

The idea of suppressing the symptoms was the only answer looked for.

I wonder if other conditions besides depression and Alzheimer's disease such as Bipolar (Manic Depression) are physiological based (of a sick body) rather than than psychological (of a sick mind) and could be effectively treated by curing the body rather than suppressing the activity of the mind.

Very interesting and quite surprising.

The study is not suggesting that schizophrenia results form an infection but that the antibiotic reduces inflammatory processes in the brain which leads to the psychotic behavior and symptoms. It is still a matter of being a sick mind/brain, and is still about suppressing symptoms as it is only a treatment and not a cure.

BigDL
Mar 2nd, 2012, 02:59 PM
The study is not suggesting that schizophrenia results form an infection but that the antibiotic reduces inflammatory processes in the brain which leads to the psychotic behavior and symptoms. It is still a matter of being a sick mind/brain, and is still about suppressing symptoms as it is only a treatment and not a cure.Am I incorrect that the method of treatment outlined under discussion is physiological at its base.

Isn't the correction of a inflammatory situation in the brain as an " organ" by an anti-inflammatory agent not a physiological approach?

Isn't the treatment of the mind by anti-psychotic agents to merely reduce or mask the symptoms but not having an effect on any route cause isn't it a far different treatment regime?

Macfury
Mar 2nd, 2012, 03:02 PM
Am I incorrect that the method of treatment outlined under discussion is physiological at its base.

Sure. And so are all of the chemical treatments currently being used. It isn't the fact that this is a chemical treatment that's interesting, but that the chemical is working in this way. The discovery was the result of treating people for infections in other parts of the body, not the brain.

Likewise, Alzheimer's Disease is considered a physiological problem, as is bi-polar disorder.

screature
Mar 2nd, 2012, 03:53 PM
Am I incorrect that the method of treatment outlined under discussion is physiological at its base.

Isn't the correction of a inflammatory situation in the brain as an " organ" by an anti-inflammatory agent not a physiological approach?

Isn't the treatment of the mind by anti-psychotic agents to merely reduce or mask the symptoms but not having an effect on any route cause isn't it a far different treatment regime?

It is different in the sense that it is an anti-inflammatory effect that seems to be reducing the symptoms. All anti-psychotic drugs also work physiologically and not psychologically.

Psychology is not psychiatry. Psychiatrists treat schizophrenia not psychologists, psychiatrists prescribe drugs, psychologists don't, you are confusing the two.

BigDL
Mar 2nd, 2012, 07:31 PM
Is psychosis a psychological problem? Yes or no.

Is psychosis a physiological problem? Yes or no.

groovetube
Mar 2nd, 2012, 07:55 PM
now that's bringin' er down!

screature
Mar 2nd, 2012, 07:55 PM
Is psychosis a psychological problem? Yes or no.

Is psychosis a physiological problem? Yes or no.

Psychosis is a physiological problem thus why a psychiatrist treats the condition and not a psychologist... Give it up BigDL you are wrong in your understanding.

Google is your friend...

screature
Mar 2nd, 2012, 07:56 PM
now that's bringin' er down!

Not really. It seems your understanding of the matter is about as deep as BigDLs. Which is about as deep as summer rain shower in July.

groovetube
Mar 2nd, 2012, 07:58 PM
Actually I did take the biology courses in uni for this, though I dont think I'm an expert by any means at all.

screature
Mar 2nd, 2012, 08:02 PM
Actually I did take the biology courses in uni for this, though I dont think I'm an expert by any means at all.

Well I have 30 years of experience in the matter with a mother who was in treatment with a psychiatrist so I will see your book readin' 101 experience and raise you with 30 years of dealing with a psychiatric patient.

groovetube
Mar 2nd, 2012, 08:05 PM
OMG a psychiatrist? REALLY? A real one?

Jeez you're REALLY smart. Well my daddy's smater'n yer daddy.

Macfury
Mar 2nd, 2012, 08:05 PM
Not really. It seems your understanding of the matter is about as deep as BigDLs. Which is about as deep as summer rain shower in July.

Penseés...

Macfury
Mar 2nd, 2012, 08:12 PM
OMG a psychiatrist? REALLY? A real one?

Jeez you're REALLY smart. Well my daddy's smater'n yer daddy.

That's telling him groove... sic 'em!

groovetube
Mar 2nd, 2012, 08:20 PM
well the sarcasm offered the first time round didn't take, so I had to go big the second time.

BigDL
Mar 2nd, 2012, 08:26 PM
Well I have 30 years of experience in the matter with a mother who was in treatment with a psychiatrist so I will see your book readin' 101 experience and raise you with 30 years of dealing with a psychiatric patient.I'll see your 30 years and I'll raise you another 10 years. My mother was under psychiatric care and many of those years she was hospitalised for psychosis, for months at a time, in many of those years.

And my dad can beat your dad.

I queried if other maladies might be looked at from a different view point than it is presently being treated.

I just can't believe how ridiculous this conversation became before this hyperbole post so I don't see much to come back for until some conversation changes.

groovetube
Mar 2nd, 2012, 08:30 PM
I'll see your 30 years and I'll raise you another 10 years. My mother was under psychiatric care and many of those years she was hospitalised for psychosis, for months at a time, in many of those years.

And my dad can beat your dad.

I queried if other maladies might be looked at from a different view point than it is presently being treated.

I just can't believe how ridiculous this conversation became before this hyperbole post so I don't see much to come back for until some conversation changes.

Well its always better to announce that you have no understanding whatsoever, instead of carrying on the conversation.

screature
Mar 2nd, 2012, 08:51 PM
I'll see your 30 years and I'll raise you another 10 years. My mother was under psychiatric care and many of those years she was hospitalised for psychosis, for months at a time, in many of those years.

And my dad can beat your dad.

I queried if other maladies might be looked at from a different view point than it is presently being treated.

I just can't believe how ridiculous this conversation became before this hyperbole post so I don't see much to come back for until some conversation changes.

Well if what you say is true then you should understand the difference... it seems you don't...

This conversation hasn't become ridiculous, it has simply pointed out your misunderstanding of the difference between the terms psychiatry, psychology, and physiology... so your absence in this thread will not be missed... at least by me.

screature
Mar 2nd, 2012, 08:55 PM
OMG a psychiatrist? REALLY? A real one?

Jeez you're REALLY smart. Well my daddy's smater'n yer daddy.

Do you actually have any experience with dealing with a psychiatric patient? If you don't then why don't you STFU... and stop talking about something you know nothing about.

screature
Mar 2nd, 2012, 08:56 PM
well the sarcasm offered the first time round didn't take, so I had to go big the second time.

Sarcasm...? No just pure BS.

groovetube
Mar 2nd, 2012, 09:18 PM
Do you actually have any experience with dealing with a psychiatric patient? If you don't then why don't you STFU... and stop talking about something you know nothing about.

Actually, I do. Quite a bit actually. But 1. It's none if your business, and 2. This in no way has anything to do with the topic, nor do I think it makes me any smarter than others here on the topic. Nor does, the tough courses I took directly on the topic, which were later than 101 btw.

But that was the point you missed while angrily asserting just how smart you are.

CubaMark
Mar 2nd, 2012, 09:52 PM
Holy friggin' hell people. Take it outside. Compare your johnsons to one another in private.

It's impossible for anyone to stay on bloody topic in ehMac these days....

SINC
Mar 2nd, 2012, 09:55 PM
Holy friggin' hell people. Take it outside. Compare your johnsons to one another in private.

It's impossible for anyone to stay on bloody topic in ehMac these days....

+1 and if you pay attention, there is one participant common to the mess every time this happens.

screature
Mar 2nd, 2012, 10:16 PM
Actually, I do. Quite a bit actually. But 1. It's none if your business, and 2. This in no way has anything to do with the topic, nor do I think it makes me any smarter than others here on the topic. Nor does, the tough courses I took directly on the topic, which were later than 101 btw.

But that was the point you missed while angrily asserting just how smart you are.

It has nothing to do with being "smarter"... it has to do with facts... something you nor BigDL seem to have any experience with in the matter and BTW if you have taken any courses in psychiatry it would mean you were on an MD track as that is what is required to be a psychiatrist and not a psychologist and you would know the difference so I find your claims to be highly suspect at best.

groovetube
Mar 2nd, 2012, 10:27 PM
It has nothing to do with being "smarter"... it has to do with facts... something you nor BigDL seem to have any experience with in the matter and BTW if you have taken any courses in psychiatry it would mean you were on an MD track as that is what is required to be a psychiatrist and not a psychologist and you would know the difference so I find your claims to be highly suspect at best.

Not sure what you are talking about. There are a few very tough bio courses in the undergrad program, so intense that many people fail them and have to take them 2 and 3 times. I was lucky and got a B on the first go. The 2nd year course was an extremely packed course which included a focus directly on this very topic. (the 201 was called 'biological basis for psychology')

But once again, the point which seems lost on you, it doesn't matter. You made a whole bunch of personal assumptions about others, as if they make any difference whatsoever to the topic. Now you need to discredit something, that really doesn't matter. Try addressing the topic itself.

CubaMark
Mar 2nd, 2012, 10:52 PM
+1 and if you pay attention, there is one participant common to the mess every time this happens.

From what I've been able to tolerate in this and other threads, there's enough blame to go around a few members....

Anyway. Screw it. Why bother contributing to this forum when people are just going to bitch at one another.

TGIF. I'm gone for the weekend.

:( XX)

winwintoo
Mar 2nd, 2012, 11:56 PM
I have endured mental illness for 60+ years.

I believe mental illness is physiological.

As a patient of "mental health" professionals for nearly 50 years, I've arrived at the unfortunate conclusion that they are all nuts.

I'm not sure where my "mental" is. Can anyone point it out to me? And why should it be treated as though it's not part of my body?

I suspect my mental problems are the result of a brain injury, either from being clobbered for disobedience or from a high fever.

When suicide is considered a side effect of some of the most popular "mental health" drugs, I applaud any effort to find the cause rather than masking the symptoms.

mrjimmy
Mar 3rd, 2012, 12:05 AM
From what I've been able to tolerate in this and other threads, there's enough blame to go around a few members....


:clap:

Macfury
Mar 3rd, 2012, 03:02 AM
This conversation hasn't become ridiculous, it has simply pointed out your misunderstanding of the difference between the terms psychiatry, psychology, and physiology....

That's the crux of the matter. One can't simply enter a serious discussion without a solid knowledge of those terms, or the belief that such a misunderstanding is simply a matter of opinion and not fact.

Winwin gets it.

groovetube
Mar 3rd, 2012, 08:18 AM
my, a lecture on the difference between the words! Well that's constructive.

DR Hannon
Mar 3rd, 2012, 09:28 AM
Psychosis is a physiological problem thus why a psychiatrist treats the condition and not a psychologist... Give it up BigDL you are wrong in your understanding.

Google is your friend...

Sorry, but why do we have to google and study a subject before we ask a question here? My wife had two brothers commit suicide due to mental illness. One of them was schizophrenic and I might add was able to do it while at a hospital that was suppose to be treating him!

Getting back on track, if this drug can help it is worth investigating. Maybe the fact it is a cheap drug will be of benefit to more people. I am no expert and this discovery may lead to more people visiting the people they love and not their gravestones.

screature
Mar 3rd, 2012, 10:00 AM
Sorry, but why do we have to google and study a subject before we ask a question here? My wife had two brothers commit suicide due to mental illness. One of them was schizophrenic and I might add was able to do it while at a hospital that was suppose to be treating him!

Getting back on track, if this drug can help it is worth investigating. Maybe the fact it is a cheap drug will be of benefit to more people. I am no expert and this discovery may lead to more people visiting the people they love and not their gravestones.

BigDL was not asking questions to have an answer he was asking questions to be facetious and argumentative, that is why.

I also applaud any treatments that are less debilitating than anti-psychotics, the efficacy or hope for the efficacy of the use of an alternative drug treatment was never in question.

The debate arose when BigDL was trying to assert that schizophrenia is viewed as a psychological problem which it most definitely is not, it is a physiological problem thus why it is treated primarily with drugs and not through psychological therapy. Psychological therapy can play a role in helping the patient deal with their illness but it is in no way used as the primary means for treating the illness. That was the issue being addressed.

screature
Mar 3rd, 2012, 10:15 AM
I have endured mental illness for 60+ years.

I believe mental illness is physiological.

As a patient of "mental health" professionals for nearly 50 years, I've arrived at the unfortunate conclusion that they are all nuts.

I'm not sure where my "mental" is. Can anyone point it out to me? And why should it be treated as though it's not part of my body?

I suspect my mental problems are the result of a brain injury, either from being clobbered for disobedience or from a high fever.

When suicide is considered a side effect of some of the most popular "mental health" drugs, I applaud any effort to find the cause rather than masking the symptoms.

It is most definitely is and why mental illness is treated by MDs i.e. psychiatrists, not psychologists.

The difficulty of course is in determining whether or not the behavioural/cognitive disorder's source is physiological (an illness) or one of an abnormality of thought processes without a physiological cause.

I completely agree that any treatment that has less side effects and greater efficacy can only be a good thing.

groovetube
Mar 3rd, 2012, 10:33 AM
You tend to get really wound up over the semantics and miss what's really being talked about.

Yes of course, using drugs to treat a condition is physiological. It seems just about anyone going to see doctors for depression or any other problem ends up on some form of drug, anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, anti something or other.

I think bigDL was merely trying to point to what seems to be a bit of a different approach, and he certainly wasn't the only one "argumentative. I tried to point out that I don't think anyone is an expert, we all have some opinions, many of us know well people who are(were) schizophrenic (may my close friend RIP), and plenty of anecdotes to assert we're smart, but now we're stuck in the mud of semantics, again.

Perhaps you can fire up your printer and print off a big gold certificate, that says, I, Screature of the earth, am right about the difference between Psychology, and Psychiatry.

And peace be on earth.

screature
Mar 3rd, 2012, 10:45 AM
You tend to get really wound up over the semantics and miss what's really being talked about.

Yes of course, using drugs to treat a condition is physiological. It seems just about anyone going to see doctors for depression or any other problem ends up on some form of drug, anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, anti something or other.

I think bigDL was merely trying to point to what seems to be a bit of a different approach, and he certainly wasn't the only one "argumentative. I tried to point out that I don't think anyone is an expert, we all have some opinions, many of us know well people who are(were) schizophrenic (may my close friend RIP), and plenty of anecdotes to assert we're smart, but now we're stuck in the mud of semantics, again.

Perhaps you can fire up your printer and print off a big gold certificate, that says, I, Screature of the earth, am right about the difference between Psychology, and Psychiatry.

And peace be on earth.

It is not a matter of semantics at all it is a matter of understanding facts. The whole thing started when BigDL implied that this treatment was new because it was treating mental illness as being physiological in nature and not psychological... the statement was completely wrong and I merely pointed the fact out and then proceeded to defend it because you and BigDL continued to refuted it.

As for a big gold certificate.... well ... "isn't that special".

groovetube
Mar 3rd, 2012, 10:49 AM
It is not a matter of semantics at all it is a matter of understanding facts. The whole thing started when BigDL implied that this treatment was new because it was treating mental illness as being physiological in nature and not psychological... the statement was completely wrong and I merely pointed the fact out and then proceeded to defend it because you and BigDL continued to refuted it.

As for a big gold certificate.... well ... "isn't that special".

Right.

Macfury
Mar 3rd, 2012, 10:52 AM
You tend to get really wound up over the semantics and miss what's really being talked about.


Words are all we've got on an online forum. And when the poster is misusing those words and terms, semantics are critical. Miss what's being talked about? If the basic terminology is misunderstood, then nothing is being talked about.

groovetube
Mar 3rd, 2012, 11:04 AM
Correction. Words is all YOU have in a forum. Unlike most here, you have an obsession with correction and giving grammar lessons.

Macfury
Mar 3rd, 2012, 11:10 AM
Correction. Words is all YOU have in a forum.

Even if you're making hand gestures in front of the keyboard, we can't see them here. Even you only have words.

groovetube
Mar 3rd, 2012, 11:18 AM
Macfury, there is far more, than just sentence structure. There's conversation for starters. I know that sentence structure, grammar, etc is pretty much the end of things for you, but don't impose your world on others.

Generally, it's well known that when someone hangs onto spelling mistakes, grammar, semantics, etc., it's a done deal for conversation. As this thread proves. Once again.

Macfury
Mar 3rd, 2012, 11:34 AM
Macfury, there is far more, than just sentence structure. There's conversation for starters. I know that sentence structure, grammar, etc is pretty much the end of things for you, but don't impose your world on others.

Generally, it's well known that when someone hangs onto spelling mistakes, grammar, semantics, etc., it's a done deal for conversation. As this thread proves. Once again.

Even on this, you're completely misunderstanding the difference between a) sentence structure, b) grammar and c) the definitions of the basic word and terms under discussion.

Conversation" isn't simply the happy exchange of random collections of denatured and interchangeable words and terms. Words and terms have specific meanings, and they are not what we happen to be feeling when we enter them into the keypad.

groovetube
Mar 3rd, 2012, 11:41 AM
I think perhaps, you could be well served to develop a whole cross country tour of major hotel seminars on the topic of online text communication.

It could be a sellout!

Part one could be: "Online Furious Misunderstanding: The real truth"

DR Hannon
Mar 3rd, 2012, 07:53 PM
[QUOTE=screature;1174767)
I also applaud any treatments that are less debilitating than anti-psychotics, the efficacy or hope for the efficacy of the use of an alternative drug treatment was never in question.
[/QUOTE]

Did not intend to suggest otherwise. Just added the comment to get us back on track. Though that did not happen. Oh well.