: Editing Panasonic's TM700's 1080/60P Video on a Mac


imobile
Oct 31st, 2010, 10:43 PM
I am new to the world of HD video

And I have a new 'toy' to go with my Mac and am wondering if I'm alone?

BACKGROUND ~
I have a huge collection of Hi8 ( old Canon 2000 of 1990's ) and more recent Digital 8 tapes ( old 2003Sony Digital 8 TRV-720 ) which utilized Hi8 tapes at 2x recording speed to significantly improve quality compared to Canon's Hi8.
And the Sony could digitize the older Hi8 tapes and import them into iMovie. ( important as I have 60 of them covering 1994-2010.)

Now having splurged six months ago on a HDTV ~ a Samsung 50" plasma ~ led to further 'needs'. The old video technology, despite the history and emotional attachments was in need of a serious upgrade. After watching National Geographic in HD ...well you get the picture. My video was looking like Charlie Chapman would 'walk' into the movie at any moment!



Spent countless hours reading the forums : a few sites influenced my decision, especially :
Panasonic HDC-TM700 Camcorder Review - Flash Memory - CamcorderInfo.com (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-HDC-TM700-Camcorder-Review-37681.htm)
and
The Official Panasonic HDC-HS/SD/TM700 Owners thread - AVS Forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1248284)
and
Panasonic HDC-TM700 review - Camcorder reviews - TrustedReviews (http://www.trustedreviews.com/camcorders/review/2010/03/22/Panasonic-HDC-TM700/p1)

Then of course the Apple support issue ..or lack of!
Neither iMovie ( even new iMovie11) or FCP support the Panasonics MTS files.
I've read up on
Apple - Support - Discussions - Importing from a Panasonic HDC TM700 ... (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2380085&start=0&tstart=0)

and was confirmed that I wanted top quality video I'd have to do more research!

I tried some of the 'converters... (to covert .mts into mp4 which iMovie recognizes) with their 'free trials' eg. Pavtube and iSkysoft, but their converted quality left much to be desired! ( my old non HD Digital 8 far sharper/cleaner).


Interestingly Toast will play the MTS files beautifully in Toast Video player.
But Toast does not export to iMovie!

Hence the need for ClipWrap
ClipWrap (http://www.divergentmedia.com/clipwrap)

Converting AVCHD files for iMovie | Video | Mac 911 | Macworld (http://www.macworld.com/article/147011/2010/03/convert_avchd_imovie.html)

If I use ClipWrap ( have't bought it yet but can trial it with short clips) it seems to do the job for $50!

The video into iMovie is stunning and I can export at 1080P to iTunes to play on Apple TV.
Yes, Apple TV is limited to 750P, but it does play both the ( according 'get info' they are different sizes) the 750P and 1080 file. So I guess in near future, with a firmware update, it may play the 1080P!

Okay ~ this has been long and rambling.
Just wanted to illustrate that I have put in the hours before I post and ask are there any other options.
Or better yet, am I not in the boat alone?

Thanks in advance for any comments/advice.

After looking at my pics, I guess ClipWrap is a no brainer?

Silly fella...
The pics via SnapNDrag ~
1. The raw .mts file dropped onto Toast 10 ~ opened in Toast Video player
2, Transcoded by PavTube ( other transcodes were similar)
3. Edit window in iMovie11 after imported via ClipWrap

imobile
Nov 1st, 2010, 01:09 AM
Am running a further experiment! Importing some more video I shot this arvo. Am disappointed at the speed of the import of the ClipWrapped data into iMovie11 on a core i7iMac with 8GB of ram.
Taking near 30 mins for 538mb of data!

Garry
Nov 1st, 2010, 01:52 AM
Well, This review (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-HDC-TM700-Camcorder-Review-37681/Compression-amp-Media.htm) would have been my first hint at the difficulty you would have... especially this part..

The Panasonic HDC-TM700 ships with HD Writer AE version 2.1 software. The software is essentially the same as its previous incarnations, but this new version does allow for importing 1080/60p footage. Having this feature is an absolute necessity as no other commercially available programs seem to be able to handle the 1080/60p footage shot with the HDC-TM700. If you want to get that 1080/60p footage onto your Mac, however, you're out of luck—HD Writer AE is only compatible with PCs.

imobile
Nov 1st, 2010, 02:10 AM
Well, This review (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-HDC-TM700-Camcorder-Review-37681/Compression-amp-Media.htm) would have been my first hint at the difficulty you would have... especially this part..

Oh I knew that the 'enclosed' software was of no value!
After all, for a long time choosing a Mac did mean searching for workarounds.

Maybe I like a challenge?
The quality of the image is fantastic!
And even going thru the ClipWrap procedure ... ClipWrap is fast, it is iTunes which is slow to process files,
A 2 minute 'movie' (11 clips) took some 27 minutes!
But the quality is , compared to my older stuff, simply superb!
Threatens ( nearly!) my Nikon D300 image quality , at least on the iMac's screen!

As pros have written, the TM700 produces video to rival that of $3500 cameras!

In meantime...
The 'data' of a 2 minute mini movie!

mguertin
Nov 1st, 2010, 02:22 AM
As pros have written, the TM700 produces video to rival that of $3500 cameras!

Except for the fact that it is in a format that is non-editable. Transport streams were not really designed with editing in mind, just playback.

Sounds a lot like some other recent video cameras out there I read about (that are AVCHD/MTS based as well). You can probably transcode the video with ffmpeg, VLC and a handful of other tools like maybe Mpeg StreamClip? Basically I'm saying you can probably use free software instead of $50 for the one you mentioned.

imobile
Nov 1st, 2010, 02:47 AM
Except for the fact that it is in a format that is non-editable. Transport streams were not really designed with editing in mind, just playback.

Sounds a lot like some other recent video cameras out there I read about (that are AVCHD/MTS based as well). You can probably transcode the video with ffmpeg, VLC and a handful of other tools like maybe Mpeg StreamClip?

A silly lttle clip made in spirit (less) of Halloween.
( as the editing will illustrate!)
I've only had camera and IMovie11 for a few days ...and the video is just thrown together. Plus house is a mess as am 'batching'!
Now iMovie exports to MobileMe in some strange 950x480 or something size...but IF you give it time to load, the quality seems to be quite good!

[

jellotor
Nov 1st, 2010, 01:12 PM
You could also try using MPEG Streamclip to convert your transport streams to something that's more friendly for iMovie.

I use it fairly regularly to convert H.264 files that are generated from a Flip camera.

imobile
Nov 2nd, 2010, 06:03 PM
You could also try using MPEG Streamclip to convert your transport streams to something that's more friendly for iMovie.

I use it fairly regularly to convert H.264 files that are generated from a Flip camera.

Doesn't handle the MTS files ...at least the 1080P at 60 frames from TM700.
I bought Clipwrap. It imports the files 'unconverted' into iMovie 11.
iMovie 11 will 'publish' in 1080P

Result are superb, even on a 50" plasma via Apple TV ( which broadcasts the 1080P at 720P)

Cheers!

imobile
Nov 5th, 2010, 03:23 AM
And EXPORTING to MobileMe is SO slow!
Have Core i7 and extreme 'cable speed' but exporting up to Apple in Sky is so cloudy!
Hopefully. new server farm in Carolinas will help!

imobile
Nov 5th, 2010, 03:31 AM
Not impressive at all? Why am I paying $C120 a year for THIS? Taking FOREVER to upload? Guess the 'cloud' has precipitated eh?

Been going on for an hour plus!

mguertin
Nov 5th, 2010, 02:26 PM
Not impressive at all? Why am I paying $C120 a year for THIS? Taking FOREVER to upload? Guess the 'cloud' has precipitated eh?

Been going on for an hour plus!

The problem is your upstream bandwidth, not mobileme. Large video files are just that, large, and it will take quite a long time to upload to mobileme or anywhere online.

imobile
Nov 5th, 2010, 06:07 PM
The problem is your upstream bandwidth, not mobileme. Large video files are just that, large, and it will take quite a long time to upload to mobileme or anywhere online.

And just ran 'new' Shaw Speedtest ( see below)
Upload is SO slow even with so called Extreme Speed.
But again, as you said, a 1080P file IS a big file ~

The little 'off to Costco' experiment is 12:50 long.

Took over 2 hours to import into iMovie11 the Panasonic .MTS 1080/60P files after being wrapped into a Quicktime 'container as a .mov file by ClipWrap ( the ClipWrap process was fast, a minute or so )

However the original .MTS files were 2.86 GB for 44 clips! ( downloaded to desktop into a specific folder for that day )
After the good work of ClipWrap ( ClipWrap (http://www.divergentmedia.com/clipwrap))
T The resultant 44 clips as 'Quicktime files were 3.81 GB.

After some simple editing ..in between watching Canuck's/Colorado game!)... mainly a few transitions I exported 'movie?' to MobileMe taking well over an hour.

Interestingly however it is also taking on a Core i7 iMac ( see pic below) over an hour to create two versions in ITunes ( a 1080P and 720P).

It's all a slow learning process which I thought I'd share if anyone else was interested in what a lot of 'experts' say is the best prosumer camcorder (Panasonic TM 700 )
out there! ( see reviews in first post!)

It does produce great images both on the 27" iMac and late 2009 5o" Samsung 1080P plasma via new gen Apple TV


{
Will post file size of the two iTunes files when they are copied out of IMovie into iTunes

imobile
Nov 5th, 2010, 06:52 PM
The little 'off to Costco' experiment is 12:50 long.


However the original .MTS files were 2.86 GB for 44 clips! ( downloaded to desktop into a specific folder for that day )

After the good work of ClipWrap ( ClipWrap (http://www.divergentmedia.com/clipwrap))
T The resultant 44 clips as 'Quicktime files were 3.81 GB.


Will post file size of the two iTunes files when they are copied out of IMovie into iTunes[/QUOTE]

Here we are...
file into iTunes from iMovie

The 1080P export is 1.85 GB!
The 720 50% of that!
Took about hour to export the two !


Recap...from Camera = 2.86 GB
from ClipWrap =3.81 GB

No cutting in iMovie 11 ~ few transitions/text!

export as1080P=1.85GB

I assume same size to Mobile Me?

What does it prove...is a lot of work!

jellotor
Nov 5th, 2010, 07:16 PM
Well, it probably doesn't prove much of anything, actually, other than you're dealing with either a slower computer or a lot of data or both.

As mguertin explained uploading files of that size takes a lot of bandwidth.

Filesize discrepancies between an MPEG transport stream and H.264 could mean anything. Without knowing the bits & pieces of the differences between the codecs (other than being similar) it's safe to surmise that an H.264 QT will likely have a larger file size than the MTS file that it originated from. ProRes 422 and AIC files from MTS & H.264 are always larger, as well.

Are those H.264 files 60p? That's a lot of data...that may be why your export times are measured in hours.

imobile
Nov 5th, 2010, 07:46 PM
Well, it probably doesn't prove much of anything, actually, other than you're dealing with either a slower computer or a lot of data or both.

As mguertin explained uploading files of that size takes a lot of bandwidth.

Filesize discrepancies between an MPEG transport stream and H.264 could mean anything. Without knowing the bits & pieces of the differences between the codecs (other than being similar) it's safe to surmise that an H.264 QT will likely have a larger file size than the MTS file that it originated from. ProRes 422 and AIC files from MTS & H.264 are always larger, as well.

Are those H.264 files 60p? That's a lot of data...that may be why your export times are measured in hours.

Thanks!
It is the amount of data!
60P ~

see snap below of one the 44 clips!
47 seconds long!

The computer is 2.8 Ghz Intel Core i7 I Mac with 8 GB of 1067 MHz DDr3 ram!