: BlackBerry PlayBook


fyrefly
Sep 27th, 2010, 05:53 PM
Thoughts? Specs look neat (probably what the new iPad 2 will have - dual core processor, at least a front-facing camera, etc...)

The biggest feature I like is that BlackBerry will let you tether it's wifi-only PlayBooks (it's only gonna make wifi models, no 3G at this point) to your already existing BlackBerry. I hope this put pressure on APple to let us tether our phones to iPads in the future.

And before people say "Why would they do that when they can sell you a 3G iPad for more $$" - I'd say if they let you tether only iPhones to iPad (the way BlackBerry only lets you tether BlackBerry's to Playboooks) Apple would have made more $$ on the iPhone front already than the ~$130 more to upgrade to a 3G iPad.

Wishful thinking? Maybe. But competition can only serve to benefit us, the end users. :D

More Details - from Engadget. (http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/27/rim-introduces-playbook-the-blackberry-tablet/)

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/09/playbooknavigator.jpg

groovetube
Sep 27th, 2010, 06:20 PM
I saw his too YouTube - BlackBerry PlayBook - Preview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaez_4m9mQ&feature=player_embedded)

Looks very cool. ( flash lovin ;) )

this and the tab shows others are movin a hell of a lot faster to compete. But this is little surprise from blackberry as they can't afford to have apple move this quickly into the enterprise market.

fyrefly
Sep 27th, 2010, 07:24 PM
this and the tab shows others are movin a hell of a lot faster to compete. But this is little surprise from blackberry as they can't afford to have apple move this quickly into the enterprise market.

Yeah, others (and I bet apple a little too) are surprised by the sheer volume of iPad sales - so everyone's trying to get on this train. But what I like about others arriving and challenging Apple is that now Apple has competition - so they'll have to be even more innovative. :D

groovetube
Sep 27th, 2010, 08:02 PM
I think perhaps it was a watch and see but this time fire up the R&D and be prepared to move a hell of lot faster should apple be right.
;)

fjnmusic
Sep 27th, 2010, 09:17 PM
Being as it's blatantly aimed at the "enterprise market," I think I'll wait and see if this is the iPad killer people have been hoping for. Somehow, I don't think I'll be waiting that long.

groovetube
Sep 27th, 2010, 09:23 PM
Here comes the apple defence league...

I guess you didn't watch the preview. This looks better than the tab, which having played with one recently was very cool.

Puccasaurus
Sep 27th, 2010, 09:28 PM
I want to like it, I really do. Let's hope it's as cool as it looks. They have an uphill battle to fight against the iPad. If the Playbook works well as a presentation device then I might consider it for the classroom -- would be nice to ditch my board-provided, virus-filled Dell laptop :)

Commodus
Sep 27th, 2010, 10:03 PM
The real issue with the PlayBook: it's due to ship in early 2011. So, if it's on schedule, it has to compete against the second generation iPad, not the current model. And it's very likely that Apple will also have its own model with one or more cameras, a dual-core processor and possibly a seven-inch model, too. This is all assuming RIM is on time, too, which is hard to gauge given that it's a new OS and a new concept for the company.

RIM is counting on its enterprise footprint to get a slice of the market, but there's no guarantee of that anymore, now that companies want to diversify away from all-BlackBerry lineups. Apple has a head start, and that may be an edge that's hard to top.

groovetube
Sep 27th, 2010, 10:12 PM
The real issue with the PlayBook: it's due to ship in early 2011. So, if it's on schedule, it has to compete against the second generation iPad, not the current model. And it's very likely that Apple will also have its own model with one or more cameras, a dual-core processor and possibly a seven-inch model, too. This is all assuming RIM is on time, too, which is hard to gauge given that it's a new OS and a new concept for the company.

RIM is counting on its enterprise footprint to get a slice of the market, but there's no guarantee of that anymore, now that companies want to diversify away from all-BlackBerry lineups. Apple has a head start, and that may be an edge that's hard to top.

they do?

The only 2 platforms to lose a little marketshare recently, were Blackberry, and iphone.

And it's blackberry that has a major headstart in enterprise. It's theirs to lose. Which everyone can guess is the reason for tis release. From the commercial, it appears they're also targeting consumers pretty hard. SHould be an interesting little battle brewing after watching android kick arse so hard recently.

Mrsam
Sep 27th, 2010, 11:02 PM
I wonder how long it'll be before Palm/HP sues RIM for completely ripping off Web OS' implementation of multitasking?

John Griffin
Sep 27th, 2010, 11:35 PM
I think it would be great if the first real threat to iPad domination were to come from just up the road from where I live! The land of Octoberfest and Western U!

Way to go RIM!

Just thought I'd get that in. My next door neighbour is one of the head programmers for RIM. :clap:

thedarkhorse
Sep 28th, 2010, 01:47 AM
I'm impressed, but my opinion will rely on battery life when info is available, my iPad has spoiled me in that regard.
It's nice to see a tablet designed with a tablet os, not an expanded phone os (ios, android)

fyrefly
Sep 28th, 2010, 02:02 AM
they do?

Maybe more correctly, lots of employees are trying to push IT depts. to let them use their iPhones. Targeting Enterprise adoption was one of the main reasons iOS took on MS Exchange support.

The only 2 platforms to lose a little marketshare recently, were Blackberry, and iphone/

Where are you getting this info from? I did a little "iphone enterprise market share" google search, and got this (http://touchreviews.net/android-enterprise-market-share-apple-ios/) saying Palm, MS and RIM were the losers, and Apple's Enterprise market-share is still double that of Android and growing (though not as fast as Android, but Android is new and is on multiple handsets/carriers).

And it's blackberry that has a major headstart in enterprise. It's theirs to lose. Which everyone can guess is the reason for tis release. From the commercial, it appears they're also targeting consumers pretty hard. SHould be an interesting little battle brewing after watching android kick arse so hard recently.

As I said earlier in the thread, I think competition is great. I hope that Android and the PlayBook continue to grow and compete with Apple - which again will only be good for all consumers, us Apple Fanboys alike.

Though to my mind, while I have no problem with it, all the Android "kicking arse" gain is similar to iOS's in the early days... and Android has a bigger market to draw from. To me, it's not about market share... Apple's always been a 5% of the world-wide market company (at least in Computers) and gets lots of press (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/09/27/apple-most-covered-tech-company-in-mainstream-media/) and profit (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/09/24/businessinsider-chart-of-the-day-market-cap-apple-exxon-2010-9.DTL), despite not having the biggest marketshare.

Android can/will easily overtake iOS market-share 'cause it's the Windows of the Smartphone world. You can get it and install it on LOTs of hardware, and it'll always be more customizeable, etc... That's fine, and I have nothing against Android. It's just that Apple has always played a different game. iOS, like Mac OS X, is on one handset, on one carrier (in the US) and is very much a "you don't like it? Tough. Lots of people do." buy-in. Just like Mac OS X.

Besides... it's not always just about "market share" (http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/09/21/pie-chart-apples-outrageous-share-of-the-mobile-industrys-profits/). :D

fjnmusic
Sep 28th, 2010, 02:04 AM
Here comes the apple defence league...

I guess you didn't watch the preview. This looks better than the tab, which having played with one recently was very cool.

Meh. Yeah, I had seen the video. About 30 seconds to a minute too long, in my opinion. Apple commercials cover more ground more quickly. This ad seemed kind of…ponderous. The iPad competitors need to be able to do something different and better than Apple does already if they really want to get a leg up, and this one ain't it. And don't say "it does flash" or I'll have to strangle you in your sleep.

Bjornbro
Sep 28th, 2010, 02:41 AM
Apple commercials cover more ground more quickly. This ad seemed kind of…ponderous.
Yeah but, if the other guys ran commercials like "Delicious" and "Musical" (http://www.apple.com/ipad/gallery/ads.html#ad-delicious) we'd be ridiculing them for copying Apple (again). ;)

fjnmusic
Sep 28th, 2010, 06:25 AM
Yeah but, if the other guys ran commercials like "Delicious" and "Musical" (http://www.apple.com/ipad/gallery/ads.html#ad-delicious) we'd be ridiculing them for copying Apple (again). ;)

Hmmm. You make a magical point.

iphoneottawa
Sep 28th, 2010, 06:39 AM
I'll wait to see it in stores and some real reviews before getting too excited.

rgray
Sep 28th, 2010, 06:51 AM
I'll wait to see it in stores and some real reviews before getting too excited.

+1

Right now the thing is a big "Meh!" :yawn: Let's wait and see......

groovetube
Sep 28th, 2010, 07:28 AM
Maybe more correctly, lots of employees are trying to push IT depts. to let them use their iPhones. Targeting Enterprise adoption was one of the main reasons iOS took on MS Exchange support.



Where are you getting this info from? I did a little "iphone enterprise market share" google search, and got this (http://touchreviews.net/android-enterprise-market-share-apple-ios/) saying Palm, MS and RIM were the losers, and Apple's Enterprise market-share is still double that of Android and growing (though not as fast as Android, but Android is new and is on multiple handsets/carriers).



As I said earlier in the thread, I think competition is great. I hope that Android and the PlayBook continue to grow and compete with Apple - which again will only be good for all consumers, us Apple Fanboys alike.

Though to my mind, while I have no problem with it, all the Android "kicking arse" gain is similar to iOS's in the early days... and Android has a bigger market to draw from. To me, it's not about market share... Apple's always been a 5% of the world-wide market company (at least in Computers) and gets lots of press (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/09/27/apple-most-covered-tech-company-in-mainstream-media/) and profit (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/09/24/businessinsider-chart-of-the-day-market-cap-apple-exxon-2010-9.DTL), despite not having the biggest marketshare.

Android can/will easily overtake iOS market-share 'cause it's the Windows of the Smartphone world. You can get it and install it on LOTs of hardware, and it'll always be more customizeable, etc... That's fine, and I have nothing against Android. It's just that Apple has always played a different game. iOS, like Mac OS X, is on one handset, on one carrier (in the US) and is very much a "you don't like it? Tough. Lots of people do." buy-in. Just like Mac OS X.

Besides... it's not always just about "market share" (http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/09/21/pie-chart-apples-outrageous-share-of-the-mobile-industrys-profits/). :D

is iphones rise i enterprise marketshare all at RIMs expense? There's many ways to put a spin on things isn't there. RIM may have lost a few percentage points, and is rightly looking over it's shoulder (hence this release), but making it sound like apple is taking over rim in enterprise is incorrect.

Where am I seeing some numbers? Well have a look here: Android market share to surge over next four years | Wireless - CNET News (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20015799-94.html) I saw this same sort of projections from several sources at the mobile conference. Android, will be the big winner. I don't see RIM going down much in the forseeable future, despite pleas from employees for more iphones.

And it -is- about the market share. That's just silly.

thadley
Sep 28th, 2010, 09:27 AM
I suspect if you were thinking about an iPad, you'll by an iPad. I don't think RIM's presented anything here that would shift you away from it.

If you weren't thinking about an iPad, but like the tablet concept and work in business, I think this is your device.

I haven't seen anything really new and innovative in this device. The cameras are nice, form factor is good, but that's it. It looks nice and useful overall, if all you are doing is reading documents, but that's the long and short of it. This will interest people who have BlackBerries, like their BlackBerries and would like a tablet to complement it, especially if the price range is reasonable. I really don't see this as interesting to anyone who was seriously considering an iPad.

And, as has been said, this is competing against iPad 2, which will have a higher res screen, probably at least one camera and insanely good battery life, I'd bet. So I stand by my point.

ertman
Sep 28th, 2010, 09:30 AM
The apple iOS... i don't necessarily disagree with it being used as the OS. It allows for better development and interoperability and it does work well. I get the other side of the coin where the iOS it is quite restrictive. RIM is not porting BB OS to the tablet, not because it wants to develop a standalone OS, but because the BB OS would not work well on a tablet.

As for the Playbook... it sounds like they got most of the hardware right. However, the real challenge is whether RIM can develop a useful OS for this device, and whether the touch screen will be useful at all.

fyrefly
Sep 28th, 2010, 12:01 PM
Did you even read my links, groovetube?

is iphones rise i enterprise marketshare all at RIMs expense? There's many ways to put a spin on things isn't there. RIM may have lost a few percentage points, and is rightly looking over it's shoulder (hence this release), but making it sound like apple is taking over rim in enterprise is incorrect.

Never in my post did I say that Apple was taking over RIM's market share. I merely pointed to a study that said Apple and Android were growing while Palm and Windows Mobile and RIM were flat/losing. Android is taking lots of market-share too. RIM has a HUGE footprint in the Enterprise. Of course they're looking over their shoulder, like you say - because they should be.

You said the only two platforms to lose marketshare recently were Apple and RIM. And I pointed to evidence that Palm, Windows Mobile and RIM were the three flat-lines, not Apple (and as you point out - certainly not Android).

Where am I seeing some numbers? Well have a look here: Android market share to surge over next four years | Wireless - CNET News (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20015799-94.html) I saw this same sort of projections from several sources at the mobile conference. Android, will be the big winner. I don't see RIM going down much in the forseeable future, despite pleas from employees for more iphones.

So when you're saying Apple and RIM are the only two who've lost marketshare - and I presented a study saying Palm, WinMo and RIM were the three currently stagnant, you refute with future projections?

I also never said RIM's going down - frankly I hope they don't. They're a Canadian company innovating on the world stage, and I think that's great.

Your link (which I bothered to read) also said that while Android growth would explode (something I also agreed with in my post) "No one vendor will dominate the landscape"

The prognosticators say Android will control half the Smartphone landscape in 5 years. OF course it will! Like I said, Android is the Windows of the Mobile Landscape. Look at the list of hardware vendors: Samsung, Motorola, Dell, HTC, Kyocera, LG Electronics, etc...

How many hardware vendors run iOS? Uh... one. There's always gonna be a bigger marketplace for Android to run as a software platform.

And it -is- about the market share. That's just silly.

Did you look at the link I presented? I'm not saying Market Share is a bad thing but in Computers, Apple has enjoyed a steady 5% worldwide marketshare, while slowly increasing sales every year. Apple doesn't need to control 100% of the market - their business model is for a niche product.

That holds true in phones too - they don't need 100% or 50% market share in phones (though I'm sure Jobs would like it) - they already sell 3% of the world's smartphones, but makes almost 40% of the profit:

Apple sold 17 million mobile handsets in the first half of 2010, compared with 400 million handsets sold by Nokia, Samsung and LG. Yet it pulled in 39% of the industry's profit during that period, more than the 32% earned by the world's three largest handset makers combined.

So while small marketshare for a long time isn't a good business model, so far, Apple's doing a pretty bang up job of making $$ while not having to go for the 50%+ like Android's doing.

jeepguy
Sep 28th, 2010, 12:14 PM
All I'm hoping for is that it will make apple fast track the ipad 2, with better display, camera and faster cpu. A little competition can only bring better things to the ipad.

thedarkhorse
Sep 28th, 2010, 12:16 PM
I can imagine blackberry toting suits in meetings since april talking about how they wish blackberry made their own iPad. There are lots of BB diehards out there, while we all care about apple and ios, they could care less and many would get this before even thinking about an iPad.

groovetube
Sep 28th, 2010, 12:19 PM
Did you even read my links, groovetube?



Never in my post did I say that Apple was taking over RIM's market share. I merely pointed to a study that said Apple and Android were growing while Palm and Windows Mobile and RIM were flat/losing. Android is taking lots of market-share too. RIM has a HUGE footprint in the Enterprise. Of course they're looking over their shoulder, like you say - because they should be.

You said the only two platforms to lose marketshare recently were Apple and RIM. And I pointed to evidence that Palm, Windows Mobile and RIM were the three flat-lines, not Apple (and as you point out - certainly not Android).



So when you're saying Apple and RIM are the only two who've lost marketshare - and I presented a study saying Palm, WinMo and RIM were the three currently stagnant, you refute with future projections?

I also never said RIM's going down - frankly I hope they don't. They're a Canadian company innovating on the world stage, and I think that's great.

Your link (which I bothered to read) also said that while Android growth would explode (something I also agreed with in my post) "No one vendor will dominate the landscape"

The prognosticators say Android will control half the Smartphone landscape in 5 years. OF course it will! Like I said, Android is the Windows of the Mobile Landscape. Look at the list of hardware vendors: Samsung, Motorola, Dell, HTC, Kyocera, LG Electronics, etc...

How many hardware vendors run iOS? Uh... one. There's always gonna be a bigger marketplace for Android to run as a software platform.



Did you look at the link I presented? I'm not saying Market Share is a bad thing but in Computers, Apple has enjoyed a steady 5% worldwide marketshare, while slowly increasing sales every year. Apple doesn't need to control 100% of the market - their business model is for a niche product.

That holds true in phones too - they don't need 100% or 50% market share in phones (though I'm sure Jobs would like it) - they already sell 3% of the world's smartphones, but makes almost 40% of the profit:



So while small marketshare for a long time isn't a good business model, so far, Apple's doing a pretty bang up job of making $$ while not having to go for the 50%+ like Android's doing.
what exactly, is your point?

I was addressing this notion that insinuated that employees were demanding iphones and blackberries are slowly going the way of the do do bird.

FAIL.

That somehow got lost in the flurry of links, and something about marketshare doesn't matter or some crap.

fyrefly
Sep 28th, 2010, 12:42 PM
All I'm hoping for is that it will make apple fast track the ipad 2, with better display, camera and faster cpu. A little competition can only bring better things to the ipad.

Exactly my points from the beginning. :) Thanks for bringing this thread back on track.

gmark2000
Oct 8th, 2010, 11:58 PM
Why did RIM feel the need to enter this arena?

Mckitrick
Oct 9th, 2010, 02:53 AM
Looks good but like many other rim products, they always seem to look good in the rim-provided videos, etc. I seem to recall the storm looking pretty amazing and that was a huge flop. I'm with iphoneottawa - I'll wait to see what this thing is really like.

Gary - Rim is likely entering this arena because they're desperate to get legitimate consumer market penetration. They tried with the flip phone (fail), they've tried wi their app store (fail) and now they're hedging their bets that this new webOS will get non-suits on board. Good way to test is in a brand new product. If it is deemed unworthy then they haven't risked threir regular user base with a net new OS.

I'm also curious to know just how much security testing is currently being done on their spin of webOS. You can bet the DoD and other large gov't entities won't be chomping at the bit.

Rps
Oct 9th, 2010, 01:17 PM
Well I don't know guys, but I think the iPad will be in trouble if Jobs doesn't make the thing work with Flash. The Android Os seems to be selling at a tremendous volume and on phones that are less expensive than the iPhone. Tethering the iPad was a major complaint by many, and I think it will continue to be one. As for the Playbook, for the size of it I just might as well get a Touch.

okcomputer
Oct 9th, 2010, 01:48 PM
FAIL.

That somehow got lost in the flurry of links, and something about marketshare doesn't matter or some crap.

This response was a "fail."


I'm interested to see the PlayBook in action. I think the lack of a 3G version is a mistake - definitely not going to sway iPhone or HTC users if the only way to get Internet is wifi or BB tethering.

I also don't like the form factor. The iPad's size is so great for docs, internet, etc. Going smaller is good for portability, but I really don't see it being a huge selling point. People aren't going to be carrying them in their pockets. It's not like an iPad is inconvenient to carry around.

fjnmusic
Oct 9th, 2010, 03:08 PM
Well I don't know guys, but I think the iPad will be in trouble if Jobs doesn't make the thing work with Flash. The Android Os seems to be selling at a tremendous volume and on phones that are less expensive than the iPhone. Tethering the iPad was a major complaint by many, and I think it will continue to be one. As for the Playbook, for the size of it I just might as well get a Touch.

And you base on this on, what, the lack of sales? The slow sales of other iOS devices like the iPhone and iPod Touch? I don't think Apple's too worried, if you measure by profitability as opposed to "market share." For all the Android devices out there, Google doesn't make a penny on one of them. Google makes 97% of its revenue from ads, that old standby we all know and love and wish we had more of in our lives.

Besides that, I'm knowing many sites that didn't used to play video for the iPhone now magically do, and I have know idea how it works or what's under the hood. Most people really don't care if something uses flash not if it works, except for a few Flash crusaders out there.

On the happy side, Apple does use Flash memory. :)

fjnmusic
Oct 9th, 2010, 03:11 PM
For some reason Apple products always have a greater feel of quality to them than the competitions. This goes back to the Macintosh vs. the IBM PC. With better design and feel the Mac was a more desirable system but cost was its' weak point.

Apparently not, since people are buying them despite the higher cost. Especially cool, trendy, rich people. Promotion on TV shows like House and everything on HBO doesn't hurt either.

groovetube
Oct 9th, 2010, 03:19 PM
This response was a "fail."


I'm interested to see the PlayBook in action. I think the lack of a 3G version is a mistake - definitely not going to sway iPhone or HTC users if the only way to get Internet is wifi or BB tethering.

I also don't like the form factor. The iPad's size is so great for docs, internet, etc. Going smaller is good for portability, but I really don't see it being a huge selling point. People aren't going to be carrying them in their pockets. It's not like an iPad is inconvenient to carry around.

well, I saw a whoooooole lot of people, holding a samsung tab, including myself, all loving the 7" size.

I can tell you, after holding the larger ipad, I dug the size of the tab waaay more. So not that everyone will prefer it, assuming that because -you- don't like the size factor, doesn't mean anything.

er. FAIL.

sharonmac09
Oct 9th, 2010, 07:33 PM
well, I saw a whoooooole lot of people, holding a samsung tab, including myself, all loving the 7" size.

I can tell you, after holding the larger ipad, I dug the size of the tab waaay more. So not that everyone will prefer it, assuming that because -you- don't like the size factor, doesn't mean anything.

er. FAIL.

+1

I've held and played with the iPad at FS and to put it quite simply, I didn't dig it whatsoever. I didn't like the restrictions and lack of USB and other ports. I didn't like the requirements of buying another data plan. File transfer is convoluted. No peripheral support other than camera dock. Bluetooth doesn't seem to support any other devices other than keyboards. I didn't like the size. No this device aint for me.

On the other hand Blackberry Playbook looks like an awesome tablet that your bb can tether to to gain access to the net! No additional data plan! Addtionally the bluetooth probably supports other devices such as mp3, headphones, FM devices, keyboards etc, etc. Imagine the possibilities! 1 gig memory! This device is the one I'm drooling over.

satchmo
Oct 9th, 2010, 10:05 PM
On the other hand Blackberry Playbook looks like an awesome tablet that your bb can tether to to gain access to the net! No additional data plan! Addtionally the bluetooth probably supports other devices such as mp3, headphones, FM devices, keyboards etc, etc. Imagine the possibilities! 1 gig memory! This device is the one I'm drooling over.

The BB Storm, Storm 2, and Torch also all looked good on paper and PR videos. Honestly, I'll be surprised if they can pull off an iPad killer.

chas_m
Oct 10th, 2010, 03:33 AM
Well I don't know guys, but I think the iPad will be in trouble if Jobs doesn't make the thing work with Flash.

[this portion of comment too stupid to dignify a response]

The Android Os seems to be selling at a tremendous volume and on phones that are less expensive than the iPhone.

Yes, Android is selling well. Good for them. Competition is good.

The latest sales figures I've seen (last month's) have Android at 32%, iPhone at 25%.

OTOH, the iPhone is only available in one model -- the iPhone 4. Android is spread out among many models, no single one of which has sales anywhere close to the iPhone.

The point being that statistics, in this case, can be misleading. And I'm not even going to bring up the profitability factor.

So far, reviews of Flash on the Android phones -- the ones I've seen have been written ENTIRELY by people with no love for iPhones -- are very poor. I'd like to think that would improve with time, but I have a track record with Adobe so IME there's no guarantee of that. One hopes it will, however.

I see absolutely wrong with there being more than one successful product in the marketplace for smartphones. Just because Apple continues to wipe the floor with its competitors in the audio player and tablet spaces doesn't mean there isn't room for **quality** competitors. There not only is, there always should be.

The Playbook, FWIW, looks interesting but is still vapor at this actual moment. We'll see how it holds up when it meets the real world. I'm not sure how I feel about the size, will have to handle it (and other rumoured 7" products) to see.

iphoneottawa
Oct 10th, 2010, 06:26 AM
The BB Storm, Storm 2, and Torch also all looked good on paper and PR videos. Honestly, I'll be surprised if they can pull off an iPad killer.

Add "Microsoft Courier" to that list also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFQWc79TYcU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Rps
Oct 10th, 2010, 09:34 AM
[this portion of comment too stupid to dignify a response]

Chas, only time will tell if this is a stupid comment. While I like many of Apple's products I still maintain that Apple has an issue as to what it's core business is. It is true that they have been riding high on producing products that people want, but I see clouds on the horizon. The iPad may be hot right now because of it's coolness, but the competition out there is learning quickly. We'll have this discussion in about 2 years time and see where things are, if the iPad is still selling at the current rates I'll be the first to say, yes it was a stupid comment and I made it.

mmp
Oct 10th, 2010, 10:20 AM
I too find that most websites that let you know that you need Flash magically work just a second later. I'm sure there is a plug in that does that work for us.

okcomputer
Oct 10th, 2010, 11:30 AM
So not that everyone will prefer it, assuming that because -you- don't like the size factor, doesn't mean anything.

er. FAIL.

This sentence makes little to no sense. Those poor commas.

And just because -you- like the form factor doesn't mean everyone will. But you are just stating your preference, just like I was. Just like everyone else here is. That's what a forum is all about.

Differing opinions are not "fails."

Sidenote: anyone else getting sick of the word "fail?"

Rps
Oct 10th, 2010, 11:37 AM
I too find that most websites that let you know that you need Flash magically work just a second later. I'm sure there is a plug in that does that work for us.

MMP, I noticed you have a 32 g iPad. May I ask what you use it for? I was thinking of getting a Touch to take quick notes but I find the keypad too small for my fat fingers. I then began looking at the iPad, it is awkward to hold but the keypad is a lot better for note taking. Do you use it for notes and such or just use the keypad for e-mail? And if so how do you like it?

groovetube
Oct 10th, 2010, 12:34 PM
This sentence makes little to no sense. Those poor commas.

And just because -you- like the form factor doesn't mean everyone will. But you are just stating your preference, just like I was. Just like everyone else here is. That's what a forum is all about.

Differing opinions are not "fails."

Sidenote: anyone else getting sick of the word "fail?"

the difference here, is you, are predicting a device to fail in the market, because you don't like the form factor, and assume no one else will.

I'm telling you, I believe both the sizes of the ipad, and the samsung tab/playbook, will be liked by a range of different tastes.

I'm not predicting either to fail based on my own preferences. I don't have a crystal ball. Apparently you do...

This should clarify things.

fjnmusic
Oct 10th, 2010, 02:59 PM
I just think, we should throw - out - the old, rule book, regarding punctuation because - free and open - like Android is, the way to go. Who wants to, deal with Apple's, walled garden? I hope RIM's PlayBook - decides - to be free and open too. That point should, be clear by, now.

fjnmusic
Oct 10th, 2010, 03:04 PM
This sentence makes little to no sense. Those poor commas.

And just because -you- like the form factor doesn't mean everyone will. But you are just stating your preference, just like I was. Just like everyone else here is. That's what a forum is all about.

Differing opinions are not "fails."

Sidenote: anyone else getting sick of the word "fail?"

I fail to get your point. More commas, needed.

groovetube
Oct 10th, 2010, 03:30 PM
I guess you had more than just the mayor to go correct on their english...

I'm sure there's more here for you to go correct.

bsenka
Oct 10th, 2010, 03:36 PM
Well I don't know guys, but I think the iPad will be in trouble if Jobs doesn't make the thing work with Flash.

I doubt it. They don't call Steve "the reality distortion field" for nothing. He has an almost limitless ability to convince people that when an Apple product falls far short of the competition's capabilities that it's actually a good thing. He's got a Masters Degree in Orwellian marketing.

groovetube
Oct 10th, 2010, 03:39 PM
one doesn't need to look far to see evidence of -that-.

fjnmusic
Oct 10th, 2010, 08:36 PM
one doesn't need to look far to see evidence of -that-.

Good, point. ;)

mmp
Oct 10th, 2010, 11:17 PM
I am using it for almost everything I would use a laptop for. Email is great, Pages too. Although it is a large iPod touch it is so much more because of the size. I am using it for many things that I used other things for such as magazine reading, newspapers, news, books and the list goes on. Fell free to Private Message me if you have specific questions. Rarely use the 24" iMac anymore...

Rps
Oct 11th, 2010, 07:55 AM
I am using it for almost everything I would use a laptop for. Email is great, Pages too. Although it is a large iPod touch it is so much more because of the size. I am using it for many things that I used other things for such as magazine reading, newspapers, news, books and the list goes on. Fell free to Private Message me if you have specific questions. Rarely use the 24" iMac anymore...

Thanks mmp, I do a lot of annotations from my reading and I was thinking that I might as well type the things. My laptop is too heavy to take everywhere and is too awkward to have on my lap while reading, so this would replace my pad and paper. Just not sure how convenient the type function is, but it sounds like you find it suitable.

groovetube
Oct 11th, 2010, 08:33 AM
I don't know that anyone is saying the ipad isn't a good device.

okcomputer
Oct 11th, 2010, 06:55 PM
the difference here, is you, are predicting a device to fail in the market, because you don't like the form factor, and assume no one else will.

I'm telling you, I believe both the sizes of the ipad, and the samsung tab/playbook, will be liked by a range of different tastes.

I'm not predicting either to fail based on my own preferences. I don't have a crystal ball. Apparently you do...

This should clarify things.

I'm really not sure what you're on about. I didn't say the PlayBook would fail. I said I wasn't sure if the size would be a huge selling point. I think the feature set and the innards are what will sell it to most people.

I did state that the lack of 3G could be a mistake, and that I personally don't like the form factor. But I didn't use the word "fail" or anything similar whatsoever in my post. I actually didn't say anything about how it may do in the marketplace at all. A few people on here have said things like that, but not me.

I think the PlayBook is an interesting device, and I'm looking forward to trying it out, and seeing how it does in the marketplace.

No crystal ball here.

,,,, <-those extra commas are for fjnmusic, to clarify things.

fjnmusic
Oct 11th, 2010, 07:25 PM
I'm really not sure what you're on about. I didn't say the PlayBook would fail. I said I wasn't sure if the size would be a huge selling point. I think the feature set and the innards are what will sell it to most people.

I did state that the lack of 3G could be a mistake, and that I personally don't like the form factor. But I didn't use the word "fail" or anything similar whatsoever in my post. I actually didn't say anything about how it may do in the marketplace at all. A few people on here have said things like that, but not me.

I think the PlayBook is an interesting device, and I'm looking forward to trying it out, and seeing how it does in the marketplace.

No crystal ball here.

,,,, <-those extra commas are for fjnmusic, to clarify things.

Noted, and -appreciated- . :clap:

groovetube
Oct 11th, 2010, 10:19 PM
I'm really not sure what you're on about. I didn't say the PlayBook would fail. I said I wasn't sure if the size would be a huge selling point. I think the feature set and the innards are what will sell it to most people.

I did state that the lack of 3G could be a mistake, and that I personally don't like the form factor. But I didn't use the word "fail" or anything similar whatsoever in my post. I actually didn't say anything about how it may do in the marketplace at all. A few people on here have said things like that, but not me.

I think the PlayBook is an interesting device, and I'm looking forward to trying it out, and seeing how it does in the marketplace.

No crystal ball here.

,,,, <-those extra commas are for fjnmusic, to clarify things.

just reading your post, you've identified more than one thing that would not be a selling point.

It's all based on what YOU think. That's what I've said oh, about 3 times. You don't seem to be getting the message.

I don't think anyone out there, cares what you think.

But you can backtrack all you like, and yammer about commas. It's seems your biggest fan likes to go around correcting others english though, as you seem to enjoy.

When someone turns to mocking your spelling or grammar, it clarifies things pretty well...

groovetube
Oct 11th, 2010, 10:19 PM
Noted, and -appreciated- . :clap:

I think you need to go correct ehmax's and few other's grammar again.

It makes you look smart.
:lmao:

fjnmusic
Oct 12th, 2010, 03:51 AM
I think you need to go correct ehmax's and few other's grammar again.

It makes you look smart.
:lmao:

Seriously. Any aspiring writer who doesn't distinguish between "would of" and "would've" needs to do a few brush up lessons on usage. I never claimed I wanted to be a writer. But if I did, I'd hire a good proofreader.

groovetube
Oct 12th, 2010, 08:00 AM
you GO girl.

cdncableguy
Oct 12th, 2010, 09:57 AM
what was this thread about again?

John Griffin
Oct 12th, 2010, 10:10 AM
what was this thread about again?

Welcome to the local support group for A.D.D. sufferers who happen to use an iPad.

groovetube
Oct 12th, 2010, 10:21 AM
what was this thread about again?

i donno, it seems about commas, and proofreading. Not sure why it went there, but y'know...
;)

fjnmusic
Oct 12th, 2010, 10:21 AM
what was this thread about again?

Good question. Playbooks I think. And whatever else pops up into our ADHD world view. :eek:

fyrefly
Oct 12th, 2010, 01:23 PM
I don't think anyone out there, cares what you think.

Seriously, I thought that these forums were all about sharing ideas and opinions on the latest Mac/iPod/iPhone/iPad-related news/rumors? So in all honestly, I think it's kindof nasty to say to someone you disagree with that no-one cares what they think.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion and IMHO should not be shut down or basically told to STFU if they don't agree with someone elses. Whether you like or dislike the Playbook, thats fine. It's all part of the discussion.

As quoted in the EhMac rules (https://www.ehmac.ca/info-centre/33134-forum-rules.html): "The mayor does really enjoy civil debates and lively discussions however... there's really just one main rule at ehMac: Be Nice!"

I think we can all say that Time will Tell if the 7" form factor takes off, and people prefer that to the 9.7" iPad form factor. And if people do want the 7" more, I expect Apple will offer the 7" model they already (reportedly) have prototypes of (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/10/08/apple-said-to-have-developed-7-inch-ipad-alongside-current-model/). Just like how once people decided they wanted 10" Netbooks, all the companies co-alesced around that form factor.

groovetube
Oct 12th, 2010, 01:51 PM
Seriously, I thought that these forums were all about sharing ideas and opinions on the latest Mac/iPod/iPhone/iPad-related news/rumors? So in all honestly, I think it's kindof nasty to say to someone you disagree with that no-one cares what they think.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion and IMHO should not be shut down or basically told to STFU if they don't agree with someone elses. Whether you like or dislike the Playbook, thats fine. It's all part of the discussion.

As quoted in the EhMac rules (https://www.ehmac.ca/info-centre/33134-forum-rules.html): "The mayor does really enjoy civil debates and lively discussions however... there's really just one main rule at ehMac: Be Nice!"

I think we can all say that Time will Tell if the 7" form factor takes off, and people prefer that to the 9.7" iPad form factor. And if people do want the 7" more, I expect Apple will offer the 7" model they already (reportedly) have prototypes of (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/10/08/apple-said-to-have-developed-7-inch-ipad-alongside-current-model/). Just like how once people decided they wanted 10" Netbooks, all the companies co-alesced around that form factor.

Who died and made you boss?

Seriously, the argument was over the fact that the poster felt that since -they- didn't like it, it wouldn't be a selling point.

I responded by saying I didn't think the world likely didn't care what they thought, it would make their own choice.

Se how context changes things? No one, said STFU. Stop making things up and getting into a huff.

fyrefly
Oct 12th, 2010, 03:22 PM
Who died and made you boss?

I don't see how expecting a certain level of courtesy means that I've tried to become the "Boss".

Seriously, the argument was over the fact that the poster felt that since -they- didn't like it, it wouldn't be a selling point.

I responded by saying I didn't think the world likely didn't care what they thought, it would make their own choice.

Se how context changes things? No one, said STFU. Stop making things up and getting into a huff.

So what if the poster thinks the smaller size may or may not be a selling point. You think the 7" size *is* a selling point. It's all a "discussion". MY point was that no-one needs to tell another poster that "no-one out there cares what you think." There would be no discussion at all if we all just disregarded opinions that didn't agree with our own.

Regardless, I'm getting quite fed up with every thread turning into a big snarky argument ("er... FAIL" 's included.):lmao:

groovetube
Oct 12th, 2010, 03:52 PM
OMG will you can the drama queen crap.

I explained the context, no one has told anyone to STFU, it is, what it is.

It is rather hard to some I suppose, to learn that the whole world's opinion, doesn't revolve around them.

Pity.

DR Hannon
Oct 12th, 2010, 03:58 PM
Hmmmm, what? Did I miss something?;)

okcomputer
Oct 13th, 2010, 11:12 PM
Thanks, fyrefly. You tried.


I think we can all say that Time will Tell if the 7" form factor takes off, and people prefer that to the 9.7" iPad form factor.

Apple's definitely still exploring the market, but you know there's a darn good reason they chose the form factor that they did. And that they haven't released a smaller version yet. But they're also not above responding to a market if it changes, and if the PlayBook takes off, Apple may just end up trying out a smaller iPad.


OMG will you can the drama queen crap.

I explained the context, no one has told anyone to STFU, it is, what it is.

It is rather hard to some I suppose, to learn that the whole world's opinion, doesn't revolve around them.

Pity..

You really need to move on from this. You'll notice that no one else agrees with you that I think the world agrees with me, or that I was saying that because I didn't like some things about the PlayBook it wouldn't sell.

I clearly explained that I was stating my opinion and that I had not said ANYTHING about the product failing.

You respond by ignoring everything I say, and then stating no one cares what I think. I can't backtrack - my post is still there in the same state it was when I first posted it.

I apologize for criticizing your grammar. I am guessing that's where all this animosity is coming from, though it began earlier in the thread when you were once again dismissing what another poster was saying by calling their response a "FAIL." At that point, you were already being rude towards other forum members - I should have guessed it would continue with me, and I shouldn't have posted about commas.

That said, I think your latest posts really are in poor taste, and you are seemingly oblivious to what forums are all about. Over 4000 posts, and you are telling others that no one cares what they think and that they are wrong because they have an opinion?


I apologize to the other forum members as I know I fuelling this fire, but it is quite difficult to just stand back while someone is rude, and goes against what the forum is about. I am done now. I promise. Unless there is actual discussion about the PlayBook itself.


Back to the topic: has RIM said where these will be sold? Since there is no 3G, it would be odd for mobile companies to sell them in their stores. Then again, they can tether to BB's, so it does make sense. Hmmm...

groovetube
Oct 13th, 2010, 11:23 PM
You really need to move on from this. You'll notice that no one else agrees with you that I think the world agrees with me, or that I was saying that because I didn't like some things about the PlayBook it wouldn't sell.

my head hurts. I couldn't figure out at all what that said.

Anyway.

If you're going to throw out the rude label, then you equally at least wear it well .I get short with some people because they are well known to spout endlessly about something they don;t know anything about.

I merely said that just because you don't like the form factor, doesn't automatically make it not a selling point. There's a lot of people out there that do, like the form factor. In the end sales figures will tell the story.

Then it became a crapstorm, ending in someone BSing that I said STFU. Then it really became drama. Which has happened a number of times. It's just tiring, and I have little time to pussyfoot around it.

fyrefly
Oct 13th, 2010, 11:24 PM
Apple's definitely still exploring the market, but you know there's a darn good reason they chose the form factor that they did. And that they haven't released a smaller version yet. But they're also not above responding to a market if it changes, and if the PlayBook takes off, Apple may just end up trying out a smaller iPad.

Time will definitely tell regarding the buying public' preference. I agree with GT that both the 10" and 7" form factors will have their supporters.

Like you said, Apple's still feeling out this market, as are all the competitors. One possible approach to the wide-variety of Android phones/tablets would be for Apple to diversify it's lineup.

It's already rumoured to be getting the iPhone on Verizon in early 2011 - so that will be one type of diversification. Another would be to diversify into different models - like the Android model. We'll have to see if Apple takes this route. I tend to think that under Steve Jobs, there'll be much reluctance to making multiple models. Jobs is well known for having trimmed Apple's lineup of hardware to it's core when he returned to Apple in 98/99 -- so keeping things simple seems to be right smack dab in his wheelhouse.

used to be jwoodget
Oct 18th, 2010, 05:01 PM
No one seems to have noted that the PlayBook is a prototype (and not a working one at the RIM press conference). It was expected that they show one, so they did. Encased in perspex. Running a video loop. The one that Mike Lazarides showed on stage apparently had a frozen screen. Make no mistake, RIM is working hard on this and is desperate to get a tablet into the market. They've got a new OS and some good ideas. They don't have a lot of time and they also won’t have the holiday season. I hope RIM does well with this as we need good jobs in Canada but it is a reflection of how far ahead that Apple is in this segment.

The Blackberry tethering will be both an advantage and a curse. It should massively jack up the data usage of Blackberries (which the carriers will like) but it will only be sellable to people who have Blackberries capable of supporting the PlayBook. That is bound to crimp sales.

davidwillson
Oct 18th, 2010, 08:18 PM
Yeah, others (and I bet apple a little too) are surprised by the sheer volume of iPad sales - so everyone's trying to get on this train. But what I like about others arriving and challenging Apple is that now Apple has competition - so they'll have to be even more innovative. :D

I think perhaps it was a watch and see but this time fire up the R&D and be prepared to move a hell of lot faster should apple be right.
__________________
watch movies online (http://moviesonlinefree.biz)

groovetube
Oct 18th, 2010, 08:33 PM
I think the wild card here is microsoft. Now that they have mobile windows 7 out, which may or may not do well in phones, they are better positioned to go after the tablet market, which may be an easier category for them to nail.

but...
Jobs declares win over RIM - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/jobs-declares-win-over-rim/article1762325/)


Jobs declares win over RIM
IAIN MARLOW — TELECOM REPORTER
From Tuesday's Globe and Mail
Published Monday, Oct. 18, 2010 4:40PM EDT
Last updated Monday, Oct. 18, 2010 8:21PM EDT
35 comments
Email
Print/LicenseDecrease text sizeIncrease text size
Apple Inc. posted record sales and earnings as sales of iPhones and iPads soared, giving CEO Steve Jobs ammunition to declare victory over arch rival Research In Motion Ltd.

“We’ve now passed RIM, and I don’t see them catching up with us in the foreseeable feature,” Mr. Jobs said in uncharacteristically aggressive comments during a conference call. “We’re out to win this one.”

This is where Steve Jobs acts like a jackarse. As an apple fan, and user, this just makes me cringe.

Maybe he should just shut up is what I was thinking, and I'm going to guess, a lot of people will roll their eyes.

DOn't stoop to Ballmer's level pulease mr jobs.

fjnmusic
Oct 19th, 2010, 01:06 AM
I think the wild card here is microsoft. Now that they have mobile windows 7 out, which may or may not do well in phones, they are better positioned to go after the tablet market, which may be an easier category for them to nail.

but...
Jobs declares win over RIM - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/jobs-declares-win-over-rim/article1762325/)



This is where Steve Jobs acts like a jackarse. As an apple fan, and user, this just makes me cringe.

Maybe he should just shut up is what I was thinking, and I'm going to guess, a lot of people will roll their eyes.

DOn't stoop to Ballmer's level pulease mr jobs.

But if he can't gloat a little when he's on top, when would be a better time?

Mckitrick
Oct 19th, 2010, 05:14 AM
Turnabout is fair play boys. RIM, Lazaridis and Balsilie have crapped on the iPhone and called it a "non-competitor" many times in the past. They generally don't open their eyes until something is put right in their face.

Just two years ago, Lazaridis was crapping on touch screens and the iPhone. He was so smug as to equate the iPhone to a disposable camera to a professional photographer. Surprise! Just two years later and the iphone just outsold RIM devices by a handy margin.
Now RIM is playing catchup. They now have many touch screen devices, including their latest greatest Torch and they're scrambling to get an iPad product out.

RIM co-CEO Lazaridis on the iPhone, Mobile Device Management, and the Best BlackBerry Product You've Never Heard Of - CIO.com (http://www.cio.com/article/362464/RIM_co_CEO_Lazaridis_on_the_iPhone_Mobile_Device_M anagement_and_the_Best_BlackBerry_Product_You_ve_N ever_Heard_Of)

Nortel was once a fantastic gem of a Canadian company and bad management drove it into the ground. RIM has been very successful despite itself but that was before anyone took serious aim at them.

groovetube
Oct 19th, 2010, 08:20 AM
But if he can't gloat a little when he's on top, when would be a better time?

how about never.

He's acting like Ballmer. Even Gates a little more class than that. All this does is make him look like the other stooges.

I also noticed he made a point of defining the players as apple and google. That's worth noting.